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Thanks Bill that's what was hoping.

Not trying to hijack thread, but this is what I was trying.


It's a mix of hardy lilly pad's and primrose on a shallow bank in my brood pond. The FHM seem to like it, and I was hoping it would help them spawn also.


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I stand corrected.
Cody's note - it was a good guess and guesses and opinions are always welcome at Pond Boss.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/23/13 02:56 PM.

Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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How do you tell a creek chub from a BNM?

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Several ways to tell creek chubs from bluntnose minnows. Some of the more prominent ways are:
1. compare the mouth of a bluntnose and creek chub. Mouth shape and location on the snout are completely different. Mouth will be noticably larger on a chub vs BNM. BNM have a rounded nose with the small mouth slightly below the rounded snout and c.chub has a more pointed snout, not rounded, and mouth of c.chub starts at the point or end of snout and slants back and downward- notice that on the last picture above.
2. BNM has a more prominent spot at the base of the tail compared to a c.chub. What appears to be a spot at the base of the tail in the above picture is actually the end of the lateral dark band on the side of the c.chub above. Body color can vary based on spawning condition and the water quality where the fish was collected - light, dark, clear, stained, greenish, gray-muddy-dirty.
3. Look at the scales on top and in front of the dorsal fin of the c.chub above. Compare the top view and the picture below it of the nice side view. Those scales do not "stand-out" or appear distinctly separate. On a bluntnose, those scales will always "stand-out, be individually distinct looking and appear "crowded" toward the front especially when viewed from above. See the picture of a BNM in this link. I'm still looking for a good picture. Try this from nanfa. You will have to type in bluntnose minnow in the Search Gallery located in the upper left hand corner.
http://gallery.nanfa.org/main.php
4. In cross section the bluntnose is round while the body of the c.chub is more compressed and slightly higher bodied.
5. If you have a bluntnose or c.chub and it is longer than 4", it is very likely a c.chub. BNM will get to 5" but is it very rare for them to get 5" long. And when BMN are 4" long they appear distinctly different from a c.chub the same length. When c.chubs are 1"-2.5" long they appear similar to the bluntnose and could be difficult for the novice without experience to recognize.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/23/13 08:44 PM.

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Thank you Bill once again! I'll throw these in my LMB pond as food and not in the new SMB pond. I was hoping to catch some BNM and get a population going, but no such luck.

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Are there any watchouts concerning putting stream collected darters into a new pond that will hopefully be a SMB pond? Will they do any damage or good?

Last edited by RAH; 02/24/13 08:50 AM.
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This looks like a sucker. It is about 4" long. Can anyone ID this fish? I have a new pond destined to be a smallmouth pond. I will be adding FHM and GS this spring. Is there any harm in letting this sucker go in the pond?


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Stoneroller?

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CJ can provide more info on this topic. IMO RAH is correct - a stoneroller, one close to breeding colors and probably a male. I don't see any negative to adding stonerollers to a pond for SMB. Stonerollers have a special mouth structure to clean and scrape attached growths, usually algae, from rocks and stones. I doubt that they will spawn in a pond habitat without stream access and I assume it was collected from a stream their natural and often exclusive habitat.
PS Pretty good picture and neat idea "fish in a bag" for photographing an unknown fish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/09/13 03:32 PM.

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We actually bought a rectangular "fish-bagger" so that I could get pictures to post on pondboss of unkown fish. It was collected in a small stream that runs through our place. Thank you for your many helpful posts Bill! This is the first fish in the pond.

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With some good luck several may spawn in a proper pond setting. Since they are a fusiform soft rayed fish that does not get overly large, I initially considered them as forage for SMB and YP, but regretfully could not get them to spawn in a pond.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/14...=21101941903757

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1935)65%5B148%3ATBHOTS%5D2.0.CO%3B2

Quote from: Identification Manual of Fishes found in Old Woman Creek (OWC) National Estuarine Research Reserve (NERR) and State Nature Preserve (SNP)

""Reproduction: Central stonerollers spawn between March and late-May when males dig spawning pits in shallow, swift riffles and occasionally in quiet pools. Males construct the pits by driving their heads into the gravel and they transport gravel from the pits by nudging stones out with their snout (hence the name stoneroller) or by transporting them with their mouth. Males compete aggressively for favored spawning areas while females remain in deeper water near the spawning pits and enter the pits individually or in groups to deposit eggs. The adhesive eggs become lodged in the gravel and are abandoned prior to hatching. Most stonerollers become sexually mature in their second or third summer. OWC Distribution/Frequency: Sites A, C and D/very common (Brammell et al. 2009)"".


Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/09/13 09:57 PM.

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They are awesome aquarium fish. You will never have algae on the walls of your tank if you have a few in there. However, I don't see them spawning in a pond, even one that was gravel bottomed. So many neat fish out there, so few that can actually spawn in ponds.

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I doubt may pond will allow spawning, but now I have one little fish in a big pond. Maybe I will be able to trap more. I did think about putting it in one of my son's aquariums, but he does not really have algae problems because he seems to have the lighting right.

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I've had very good luck with Anderson Minnow Farm as compared to another vendor for fathead minnows.


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Did you have Anderson ship you the fish? If so, is shipping expensive? Do they have a minimum order size? I wish to get both FHM and GS.

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RAH, check with the bait dealer' wholesaler in your area. The guy that does it around here sells them to me wholesale(fatheads,gold. shiners and rosey reds). They are8-10 bucks a lb.


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I found a bait shop that says they can help me out, but I want to be sure that I get the species that I am supposed to. I am not very good at identifying little fish, and would hate to start off the pond with the wrong species.

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Darter in full color - what species?


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Orange-throated?

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Orangethroat darter, it is one of the more common darter species along with the rainbow darter, and Johnny darter. That is a male approaching full spawning coloration as it will be spawning season here in a month or so... There is a lot of variation in coloration depending on what subspecies/drainage the specimen comes from. Not a pond candidate but they make awesome aquarium fish!

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I know that they will not spawn, but I added it to a pond destined for SMB along with 2 stone rollers. I will be adding FHM and GSH in a month or so. I am adding creek chubs to a LMB pond also. Is there any harm in this?

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I don't think so.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Thanks - Just trying fo some variety. Not sure how long they will last after adding the SMB which I am planning to add in the Spring of 2014 if the FHM and GSH population gets high.

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With a little feeding to the pond of ground or crushed pellets this summer-fall you will not believe how many small fish you will have present. Feeding will make the early and later hatches grow well. The water will be dark with minnows when you fed them.


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I have a bag of fish food that I bought from Tractor Supply, but I just use it to to watch the fish in the older LMB pond (not used every day). I am hoping that I can get a good food chain going, but if it takes an extra year to get the forage population built up in the new pond, I am OK with that. I will be planting water lilies and want then to get established before adding crayfish, so it may take a little longer anyway.

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