Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Copper Nosed Bluegills in NE Ohio?

I don't have the pics but check all the state records bluegills for northern states..

One has to remember that a state record fish is not a commonly occuring idividual and not even the rare individual. State record fish are just that state records and they very rare or exceptional fish only caught once in a great while. The 2.5-3 lb CNBG in Richmond Mill are fairly common individuals which is a good indication that the very rare or exceptional CNBG in Richmond Mill could be 3.5-3.6 lbs or even 3.8-4.0 lbs.

If you saw that Indiana state record then you know it was a hybrid. At least that's what a local biologist told me that witnessed it.I don't think it's fair to compare a hybrid to a regular strain bluegill. I know ponds where I can catch 1 lb. hybrids all day but you rarely see that with regular strain bluegills. Not sure we know where it originally came from do we? For all we know it was one of those hybrids from Arkansas.

I've fished for northern strain regular bluegills all my life up here in Indiana and mounted some big ones for customers. Can's say I've ever seen or mounted one bigger than 11 1/2 inches or 1 lb. 7 1/2 oz. which was the weight of one from my pond just a few weeks ago.

Cecil makes a good point. Many of the older records for northern state record bluegill were actually hybrid bluegill not pure strain bluegill and commonly caught from ponds.

Bill,

Some of the more progressive states have a separate record for hybrid bluegills and even pond caught fish. No surprise mine does not. LOL

I think Richmond mills is an exception can you catch those CNBG anywhere else like Richmond they are extensively managed and fed..

I found what I was thinking of...and it involves 2-3 lb northern strain BG. It's over on BBG. I hate posting links to other folk's stuff on a different forum without asking them first, so I'll wait until I can contact them.

Sp,shoot me a pm or message at BBG, telling me the names too, if you don't mind. I never BG fish but since I had the flu last week,I have been looking at many pictures on that site. Overall, you have the best sizes of all that I have seen. Simply outstanding fish,ponds and family!!!

I've seen the mount, last year I interviewed the angler who caught it back in 1972, talked to two state biologists about it, have copies of all the information the state has on file regarding this fish, and have seen unpublished photos taken right after it was caught... it looks like the real deal. (non hybrid) It was also caught in a location different from the official DNR account: LOTS of mis-information where this fish is concerned.

Can you post those pics sprk?

Nevermind misread thought you had unpublished pics

Ken I sent you a pm. And thanks for the kind words!

It's easy to make a hybrid look like a regular bluegill sprkplug considering a taxidermist has to paint the colors back into the fish. I've done it on a occasion although the mouth size tends to a give away.

I tend to believe it's a hybrid especially since a biologist I know witnessed the live fish vs. the mounted version.

Anyone have a picture of the IN state record "bluegill?? Post and we will 'dissect it".

From what I've read online there are no published pics Bill, i didn't really dig into it though..

Cecil would you mind telling me who that biologist was? Jed Pearson told me he remembered the photo of the fish hanging in the forestry office when he worked down at Greene Sullivan where the fish was caught, but he was not there to witness the actual fish.

He did provide the name of the biologist who he thought might have identified it, but this person moved out of state many years ago and I have not been able to locate them.

I saw the photos before the taxi got to work on the fish....which by the way was Archie Phelps down in Alabama....and from someone who raises HBG, I could find no evidence of GSF. I daresay I have probably researched this particular fish more thoroughly than any sane person ever would...to the point that I pored over maps and records in the forestry office for hours, in order to determine the age of the BOW the fish came from, the stocking records for that particular BOW, and whether or not the pit that produced the fish had ever been restocked, or drained and re-mined.

The last time I saw it, the mount itself was hanging on the wall behind the bar in Sparky's Doghouse, in Mt.Summit. It's been repainted at least once over the last 40 years.

By the way...if you talk to Jed, ask him if he remembers talking to the persistent guy who was researching what it takes to produce giant Bluegill in his own ponds, and figured researching the state record might shed a little light on the subject. I haven't talked to him in a couple of years, but he was very helpful and I appreciated that.

There are no published pics. The only thing I have is a scan of the newspaper article from 1972, and it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm trying to find it, but I think it's on the computer out in the shop. I'll check tomorrow.

I cannot find the photos...but I did find the e-mail that accompanied them...I'll keep looking.

---
From: Smyth, Jamie L. <JSmyth@dnr.in.gov>
Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: State record Bluegill
To: Tony Livingston


Hey Tony. There is no official biologist report that accompanies the state
record bluegill. The fish is not a hybrid, as it was most certainly
recognized by a biologist to be the state record bluegill. Attached you
will find a photo of the fish, the actual entry form submitted for the state
record, and part of an article from the Indy Star about the fish. That is
all that I found in the file. If you need anything further, don't hesitate
to contact me.



Thanks,





*Jamie L. Smyth*

*Public Access Coordinator*

*Division of Fish and Wildlife*

*402 West Washington St, Rm W273*

*Indianapolis, IN 46204*

*Ph: 317-234-7629*

*Fax: 317-232-8150*

Sprkplug,

Interesting... The biologist that told me he had seen it and it was a hybrid was Jed Pearson. I don't want to cause any trouble (I know Jed is a member here), but that's the way I remember it. Maybe my memory is faulty...

This was when I brought in a potential tie for the world record pumpkinseed for him to identify. One of the other biologists coming in late looked at it from 20 feet away and dismissed it as a pumpkinseed hybrid. The guy was quite arrogant. Jed took the time to key it out and everything, and believed it was a true pumpkinseed. I've always respected Jed and known him for quite a few years. I've actually worked for the INDNR as a biologist aid and did a couple of creel surveys. I eletroschocked with Jed one night back when I did a an outdoor column for a local newspaper.

BTW IGFA said they would make a category for a hybrid pumpkinseed if it indeed was a hybrid, and I commented to Jed that the INDNR didn't have a category for pumpkinseed and didn't differentiate between bluegills and hybrid bluegills, when it came to the state record. That's when i recall Jed saying he has seen the state record bluegill and it was a hybrid.

IN regards to the pumpkinseed, since the biologists disagreed, and the angler couldn't afford a DNA test, the pumpkinseed or pumpkinseed hybrid never made it into the record books.

I did have a biologist at Illnois Natural History that was an expert in pumpkinseed hybrids volunteer to do an DNA test for free. However when I tried to contact him to take him up on the offer he never answered the phone or his emails. Apparently he backed out. My theory is his superiors told him no probably due to the cost or not wanting to get involved in fish records.

I sure hope you can find a picture. I could also tell you if I looked at the mount. If it's a hybrid the mouth gape will be quite larger compared to a regular bluegill.

Anybody volunteering to go over to Sparky's Doghouse, in Mt.Summit and after a few brews make a mouth gape measurement of the infamous fish? Our buddy Sunil would do it in a heartbeat. Don't for get to measure the length of the upper maxillary.

That's illinois record I believe Cecil

I'm digging...I remember that I was sure it was a hybrid when I saw the newspaper photos. But then I found a couple of color photographs of the fish supposedly taken on the day it was caught and weighed in at the bait shop, and they told a different story. I was hoping it was a HBG, as a 3 pound + fish would lend credence to the commonly held belief that hybrids have the potential to grow larger than regular BG. I wish that were true, but I've never seen a verifiable 2 lb HBG....let alone one the size of this fish. Once I saw the better photos, my hopes deflated.

That's it, I'm headed out to the shop to search that computer.

The rarity of a regular bluegill to get the size of 3 pounds and locating information about regular northern bluegill at 3 lbs reinforces the fact the northern bluegill weighing 3 pounds are real 'freaks' and the CNBG of 2.5-3 lbs do usually grow bigger than regular bluegill which brings us full circle back to the original topic of CNBG generally grow larger than pure strain northern bluegill. Somebody please go out this summer and catch a regular northern bluegill weighing 36 to 40 ounces.

Finally found it. The light border that appears on the fins is what initially got me excited about the possibility that this was a hybrid. But the border wasn't present on the other photos at all. It looked like a northern fish. Sorry about the quality, I could not talk the owner of the other photos into turning loose of them. This is the best one I have. I don't know the status of the fish in this photo...it almost looks like it's mounted on something?

It has such a terrible glare on it in this photo.

Okay...just got the go-ahead on the big northern strain posted over at BBG. You'll need to read through all seven pages to get the details and see all the photos.

I believe the angler who caught those fish may look familiar....

http://bigbluegill.com/profiles/blogs/giant-bluegill-using-the-modica-spooning-method