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To me the light color on the fin margins is typical of a fish that has been held in one of those round wire fish baskets and the fins got beat to death on the wire. Also of a fish that is recently dead and sloshed around in one of those baskets.

Don't forget that a hybrid could also be a BGxRES cross. Wiht the older records, I'd suspect that before I'd suspect a BGxGSF cross.


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I go back to the days when DD1 and I considered BGs as bait….

Then I discovered CNBG and fell in love with them.
It’s the fight in the fish for me …. they would be dangerous if grew as large as a LMB .
I love their coloration and fast growth – I can grow them to a pound in one year – I have a goal of two pounders and goal was within sight summer before last when drought shrunk 2 acre pond to 1 acre and had a fish kill.
I found a couple of big male 11+ incher survivors and upped my gentics with OTS CNBG last fall so I may reach my goal with new aeration systems for drought insurance.

I believe that FireIsHot has 2 pounders in his lake at the present time and Highflyer is within reach in his 12+ acre lake.

I would not have the patience to wait 2-3 years to grow a 1-pound BG and would be playing with my favorite HSB – ponds are fun.
George



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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Pics form RM



Darren Simon with a two pound bluegill, his personal best.



Alan Warren and Bruce Condello pose with some mighty nice bluegills.



A very interesting thing happened. Bruce caught the fish on the left. It weighed just over 1 lb, 13 oz. That's huge. As he looked, it wasn't a bluegill. It had several attributes of redbreast sunfish. He and Aaron used an iPhone to look up the North Carolina state records for redbreast and this fish was 2 oz. larger. He brought the fish in, both Dr. Willis, a fisheries biologist, and I looked at it. We agreed it wasn't a redbreast, but that it had attributes to both redbreast and bluegill. We kept the fish and Bruce wanted to weigh it and submit for a potential state record...even though we didn't know what the fish was.
As I thought more about it, this fish appears to be about 5 years old. It looks like a hybrid cross between a bluegill and redbreast. As I thought about it, Richmond Mill Lake was mainly empty during the time this fish was spawned. The conclusion I have tentatively arrived is that in the spring of 2005, while the lake was still low, the redbreast were spawning. As the fish were doing what they do, a "sneaker" bluegill came in, dumped some of his milt onto the female redbreast's eggs and ran off. It makes good sense and is a logical explanation.
The record was submitted and the fish is currently alive and being kept at Aberdeen Tackle, in Aberdeen, NC.







Last edited by ewest; 02/11/13 09:50 AM.















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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
That's illinois record I believe Cecil


O.K my bad.


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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'm digging...I remember that I was sure it was a hybrid when I saw the newspaper photos. But then I found a couple of color photographs of the fish supposedly taken on the day it was caught and weighed in at the bait shop, and they told a different story. I was hoping it was a HBG, as a 3 pound + fish would lend credence to the commonly held belief that hybrids have the potential to grow larger than regular BG. I wish that were true, but I've never seen a verifiable 2 lb HBG....let alone one the size of this fish. Once I saw the better photos, my hopes deflated.

That's it, I'm headed out to the shop to search that computer.


I've mounted a 13 inch 2 pound plus hybrid.


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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Finally found it. The light border that appears on the fins is what initially got me excited about the possibility that this was a hybrid. But the border wasn't present on the other photos at all. It looked like a northern fish. Sorry about the quality, I could not talk the owner of the other photos into turning loose of them. This is the best one I have. I don't know the status of the fish in this photo...it almost looks like it's mounted on something?

It has such a terrible glare on it in this photo.




Are you sure that's the fish? Doesn't look three pounds to me.


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That's it. Here are the specs:


Cecil, you made my day with your remark about having seen a 2 pound plus HBG....


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Cecil, I thought you might appreciate this email I received when I was pressing for details regarding the record fish's lineage, and was suggesting that the fish might indeed be a hybrid:

, Jamie L. <JSmyth@dnr.in.gov>
1/11/11

to me
Considering it was close to 40 years ago we may never know that answer. Given today’s technology, we certainly wouldn’t let a hybrid bluegill take over the bluegill state record. Good luck on digging anything up.

Jamie


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Today 's technology? I doubt the INDNR would go to the trouble and expense of a DNA test. I believe Jamie is blowing roses you know where. grin

I was interested in aging the state record pike I mounted and was handed a sheet explaining how to do it by using the clithreum bone. If I recall they hadn't done it themselves.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 02/12/13 01:12 PM.

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BG X CNBG might be an option in OHIO


Goofing off is a slang term for engaging in recreation or an idle pastime while obligations of work or society are neglected........... Wikipedia
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I knew you'd get a kick outta' that Cecil!! grin

So.....did anyone check out Bruce's giant northern strain in the link I posted?? Two locations, both with CNBG and northerns, and both equally large.....


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sorry I don't chime in more frequently.. but, I'll go out on a limb and give my humble opinion on northern vs. cnbg in a warm pond. Bruce can ping in too since he's seen this and watched my fish grow..

My pond was a bit of a 'control' group for this, as it's was smaller and managed heavily. I put in both northern and cnbg.

The fish were in identical conditions, and I fully expected that the cnbg would outgrown northerns in a hot pond (I'm in Phoenix, no one has a warmer pont than I do). Who would expect anything else?

I've grown both to freakish 3lbsish, and I'll admit I'm still in the process of figuring out which will grow the *biggest*... but in my experience, in an identical environment, there has been little to no difference in growth rates, condition, or health. They both get huge at similar rates with identical conditions (warm water, long growing season, good food). I actually think that my northerns were growing a little faster than the cnbg overall and the biggest fish (see image) are natives. This is true of my original stockers and offspring up to second generations)

Why? IMHO I think the main difference in growth rates and ultimate size dependent upon forage and ideal growth conditions (water temps, growing season, etc).

To the OP, natives can grow fast and the cnbg's aren't optimal for Ohio. Feed 'em. Oh yeah, they'll grow faster if you're not in Ohio. smile



Last edited by AaronM; 02/12/13 04:15 PM. Reason: took out pic
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Man those fish are beautiful..!!!!


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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Thanks Aaron, I love what you've been able to accomplish out there! And appreciate you chiming in with the success you've had with the northern strain. I had hoped you would see this post and weigh in.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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esshup, I took the pic out, was that it? it was fine on my computer
sprkplug, thanks for the kind words!

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Aaron were your BG from Bruce ?
















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Aww...the pic of Bruce with the giants is gone? It looked fine on my computer also?

Now we need photos of the giant northerns from North Carolina.....


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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From the guys who created the Tiger Bass – The coppernose bluegill grow faster and eat pelleted feed more readily than the common bluegill. With proper management and stocking, it is possible for them to reach sizes in excess of 2 pounds.

From the largest Fisheries Mgt group in the SE :When put on an intensive supplemental feeding program, coppernose bluegill commonly grow faster and larger than native bluegill in small impoundments. This is partly due to their aggressive feeding behavior.

From - Performance Comparison between Coppernose and Native Texas Bluegill Populations by Prentice and Schlechete ( a peer reviewed scientific study)

Coppernose bluegill were significantly larger than the 2 Texas types (regular bluegill and west Texas bluegill ) in all scenarios tested.
They also cite evidence of the same results in So Cal waters.
















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So what are we to make of the equally large northerns in two different locations? I realize that published studies all claim CNBG to grow larger, and I agree that generally speaking that may be true. However, a fish-in-the-hand, EACH HAND... is worth two studies on the desk in my opinion.

This is why I have a problem with making definitive statements where ponds and fish are concerned. There always seems to be instances or circumstances that differ from the conditions encountered in those studies, or variables not previously allowed for, that despite all the careful planning and rigorous testing, leave room for differing results in real world conditions.

How long ago was it that we recommended stocking BG before LMB in northern ponds where a balanced environment was desired? Not so long. That was the accepted, recognized practice. Now, we know that doing so may lead to stunted BG. Newer, more updated information contradicted what was the norm for so long.

I'm not trying to argue, I just believe that the possibility exists for northern strain to match CNBG if conditions are right.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Aaron:

Removing the pic narrowed up the thread on my computer. If others didn't have a problem with the thread getting super wide, go ahead and throw it back up. It's worth it seeing a huge CNBG and Northern BG side by side.


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If I remember correctly, I believe Bruce said that both of those fish were standard, northern strain fish....Awesome specimens!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Here's the pic again... IIRC this is one of each..

ewest, northerns weren't from Bruce.. we're still working on that.. just random bg's that are my original stockers.. and my f1 and f2 were growing faster.. and I have pure northerns, 'hybrids', and pure cnbg...

And I have no dog in this hunt saying the northerns grew faster/bigger.. I NEVER thought they would since I read all the articles and was giddy to get my hands on CNBG.. I almost didn't put them in; but I just wanted the diversity.

Accidentally, I have fish that look like the below pic.

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As usual I guess - IT ALL DEPENDS!!!

Nice work Arron. Your efforts in a fairly controlled environment give good insight for bluegill growth possibilities. Thanks a lot for sharing your work with us for this discussion. Readers - notice the great fish food producing habitat in the shallow water over Bruce's shoulder.

Were your bluegill collected from Arizona or from an out of state fish farm? Did you stock males and females?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/13/13 04:09 PM.

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A few more pics for your enjoyment.. smile
















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Bill, out of state fish farms... agree, it all depends!! this was only my experience.. in my first pond.. I'm learning what I can do.. and ignoring what I can't... smile

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