Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Sunfish to LMB ratio and more

kenc:

Are you positive that it was a TS and not an immature GS?

ewest, Bill??

It all depends on what else, if anything, is in the pond. For example, everything eats fingerlings of all species. If they are stocked in a new pond with small forage, the 200 should have a good survival rate.

In general, I would rather stock the 6 inch ones.

Into an empty pond or one with adult predators ? Habituate or not ?

It depends !!!

Survival here means live long enough to spawn once - the scientific definition of recruitment.

Stocking 2 inch LMB into a pond with adult predators (BG , LMB ,RES , GShiners , CC etc ) with no habituation 5% survival +-

Same but habituated need to double check but appx 20 %

Into a new pond no adult predators WAG 70%.

Stocking 6 inch LMB into the population as per your plan (but using less LMB) ie some adult predators (BG/RES and GShiners and some of their offspring who may also be big enough to exhibit some LMB predation on yoy LMB) 85 %.

There can be large variation on survival to recruitment with small 2 inch fish. The problem is you may get 5% which would be ok on LMB but you could also get 50% which would mean you start out LMB crowded. Some of that risk is reduced by stocking larger stocker (6 inch LMB). 30 LMB per acre reaching recruitment is more than enough in new ponds.

Will double check the #s and report back.

Yes I agree with DD1 and ewest,,, surival of largemouth fingerlings 2"-3" vs 6" juveniles will depend on numerous variables. Three main variables are predators, food availability and habitat. Competition among themselves and with other species also enters the picture. Seining, holding and hauling stressors could also affect survival.

I would be stocking the LMB fingerlings into a pond that had BG 2-6" stocked one year prior.

Any minnow forage species in the pond?

Yes, FHM and GSH would be stocked 1.5 years prior. I also plan to feed at 2 locations in a 2.5 acre pond. I will also put a lot of effort into putting habitat/cover into the pond before it fills.

Esshup, at the time I didn't know shad from shineola but the state biogolist seemed to be certain they were TfG. They don't get over 6-7 in. and in october they will be 3-4in.. I catch them with a cast net and noodle fish with them. If you put them on a hook really quick, they are really hardy. I doubt I could tell the small ones apart now but we did have some darker ones come in with the flood. They got to be 10 in. in no time. That pond has at least 20 diff. species in it. In Nov.,there was schools of little round fish about the size of a quarter that I couldn't tell what they were. Travis will have a good time determining all the fish species. We take out a hundred pounds of fish per acre to keep it from getting overloaded and we only feed enough to catch the catfish easily(500 lb. last year).

With lots of minnows of all sizes and no predators other than panfish expect a high survial rate approaching 80%-95% for the fingerling bass assuming the fingerlings are handled properly prior to stocking. IMO the prior handling will be the biggest variable in your situation.

Kenc- I thought noodling didn't use bait? Thought it was bare hands....

Not with my hands. Noodles is another name for jugs(not Dollys) in this neck of the woods.

Thanks....

I would suggest given your facts that you use 6 inch LMB and not 2 inch. Adult BG , RES and GShiners can eat a lot of 2 inch LMB. Plus I would not want the risk of having the possible wide difference in stocking success (5% to 70% survival) on 2 inch fish. What you want is 30+- LMB per acre at the time they first spawn. Using 6 inch LMB stockers that will be the spring after you stock them (assuming a summer/fall stocking).

Since there are no fish in the pond yet, check on the availability of fingerling 2-3" and 4"-6" largemouths in your area and then adjust your stocking plan based on availability of the sizes of largemouth that are available.

I bought some 4-6 bass this year. I am not saying they fudged but if I was ever single again, I would like for them to fill out my resume.

Thank you for all the information provided in this thread. The info has made me change my stocking plan for the better. I am still pondering the pond capacity issue.

With aeration, feeding, fertilizing, and good amount of habitiat what is the approximate pond carrying capacity in fish? Could it be pushed to 1000 #/acre?

I planned to stock 1600 2"-6" BG per acre in springtime in a pond with only FHM and GSH. I planned to stock the LMB one year later. I figure the most amount of fish I will have is right before I introduce the LMB since they will consume 10# of forage for every 1# they gain.

What is the approximate number of BG I will have when I stock the LMB? I guess this boils down to these two questions:

1. How many spawns could I expect to get out of 2", 4" and 6" bluegill stocked in March in one year?

2. What is the approximate survival rate of BG offspring be in a pond with no preditors and good habitat for young BG?

There are so many variables....Maybe a better question to the experts is, do you see a pond reaching its carrying capacity in one year when 1600/acre BG are stocked one year prior to LMB and FHM, GSH are stocked 1.5 years prior to bass?

Here's some reading for you from the archives. I threw the 2nd link in there for your "down the road" planning.

Carrying Capacity information



http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92492#Post92492

I would not even begin to guess at an answer on your carrying capacity.

How about this for a carrying capacity (quote from an Auburn PDF)?

The carrying capacity for catfish nursery ponds fed complete diet commercial sinking pellets is 5 tons/ha and of grow-out ponds (32% Crude Protein) is 15 – 18 tons/ha.

An ha is a little smaller than 2.5 acre so the carrying capacity for this particular grow out situation is better than 12,000# per acre. The nursery ponds are better than 2,000# per acre.

In the end Carrying Capacity is about how far you are willing to go or how far you can push before something goes wrong.

I have stocked 5,000 HBG per acre before and know from experience some things when it comes to carrying capacity.

I currently have a 1/2 acre pond with well over a 1,000 catfish swimming around, and still have some 2#+ bass and 1#+ bream in it. I have stocked as many as 2,000 catfish in it before. The larger bream and bass where all hand selects from other ponds introduced to reproduce and have all there little ones ate up as free feed the adult Cats. Some of the best tasting catfish I eat comes from this pond. The fresh spring water volume being introduced is at a rate it would completely fill the around 4 water acre feet in volume pond in around 72hrs.

18 mths +- to reach un-augmented un-changed carrying capacity (standard ,as is , normal standing crop). Normal numbers are 100 lbs per acre in un-augmented ponds of which 75% will be forage and 25% predators. In an augmented pond (feed and fertilizer program)the standard is 400 lbs per acre and again 75%/25% . The high #s you see above like 1000-2000 lbs and above per acre are for aquaculture operations and not for a recreational pond.

But it depends on the pond in question. Each one is different. Some lakes in the Fla Phosphate pits do have a carrying capacity of 2-3000 lbs per acre naturally. They are the perfect storm situation however.

See the archive link by esshup above.

Does that mean I am an recreational pond owner that uses an aquacultural approach or an aquacultural operation for recreation?
(Edit take that in a joke style manner, please)

BTW, I am not the normal situation and that is why I have never advised anyone to do / attempt some of the things I have done succesfully.
(Edit I was also blown away to find out (after I jioned here) that a certain hatchery I had done business with even mentioned to their customers to stock 5,000 per acre.)

Kinda like me. I have never made a real mistake with a pond. However, I have had quite a few experiments that didn't turn out like I hoped.

Tums:

If I'm reading your previous post correctly, you have a goodly amount of water flowing thru your pond, correct? If so, that's one reason why you can carry such a large standing crop - you don't have water quality issues. I believe that's the biggest limiting factor in recreational ponds.

Tums (good question) ! No offense taken - I like good questions. See this link on Trophic Continuum - natural to aquaculture and see where you think your water falls.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1736&Number=19169#Post19169

Esshup you understood that correctly. Yes that is exactly why we can stock so many fish here and get away with it.

Ewest I am curiuos how to you consider the water in 3 of the 4 ponds/ lake we built. The water is all natural and flows in at a rate that can be measure in gallons per second or water feet per day. The 1/2 acre catfish hole has the slowest inflow of the 3 with probably around 1.33 water acre feet per day. The other 2 (3 acre & 15 acre) exceed 2 water acre feet per day of natural inflow and we do not push the carrying capacity in them like we do the 1/2 acre pond. The 4th one is the 3 acre that has the High Volume well and we have pushed the limits of carrying capacity in that one at times since it is more like an aquacultural controled enviroment. It was the pond that had 5,000 HBG per acre stocked succefully before.

Me personally I have allways considered the 1/2 acre pond to be an exceptional natural pond. All I do is try and manage the food for the catfish and catch them. Ocassionally I have to do maintainance like any other pond. It has a carrying capacity that I would consider to be the top end of the curve for what a recreational pond can handle in the right enviroment with feed added.