Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Soaker Hose

I've been useing soaker hose for my diffuser, seems to work well but, was wondering if it was the right way to go due to the price of some of the other man made diffusers? I have a 1/3 hp gast compressor with half inch airline ran to the pond, then it t's and goes aproximently 30' each way towards the middle of the pond and is attached to soakerhose weighted to the bottom of pond in 5 gallon buckets weighted with rocks.Everything looks good as far as boiling of the water and all but, I was just wondering if I could get some insight on the situation? Thanks.

If I understand soaker hoses correctly, they will have much larger holes for bubble release than a diffuser would. The smaller the bubbles being released (for a given volume of air), the more efficient the aeration is. But your "less efficient" system may still be giving you adequate aeration.

You can always retrofit a better diffuser in the future if your interest and budget agree on it. Aeration needs for a new pond are usually lower than for older ones because they have not had as much organic sediment built up to decay and use up O2.

Thanks Theo, I also run a fountain part time and the pond looks great, I was just wondering about the soakerhose. Is there anyplace to get them cheap? They want alot of $ for some of them. I need 2 diffusers for half acre pond, nothing fansy.Also, is there anything else I can use instead of the soakerhose for diffuser?Something I could make myself to save some $. There can't be that much involved in makeing one at least I wouldn't think? I have never checked one out before besides pictures, What are they made up with?

I am not sure what is considered cheap but I bought my 9" membrane diaphram diffuser for 20 bucks delivered only I cant seem to remember where I ordered it from, dang its hell getting old!

Aquatic Ecosystems?

I saw a 9" membrane diaphram Diffuser at aquaticeco.com for around $20 while surfing there site.

well thats not bad at all, I've seen them go for hundreds.

I just checked them out and think I'm going to order acouple next week, thats a great price.

Yeah that's the place. DOH! Mine is still running just great, every once in awhile I will pull it up and clean the diffuser surface with a tooth brush to get the growth off of it.

I really regret not getting the weighted line, for 1) it is always figuring how to float up and 2) I know that I am going to have to limit the area so no hooks get into since it isnt laying on the bottom of the pond but weighted in several locations.

And just the other day I sprung a leak, nice little hole punched into the top of it. Not sure what did it but with the heron hanging around as much as he has I am thinking he may have caught a glimpse of it and thought it was a snake or frog or something and drilled it. I would like to discourage him for ever!

Do you have to use a campressor? What about running water thru soaker hose?

Is there a better cheap way for bottom aeration?
Won't the soaker hose contain lead?
Do you have to add air compressor or wouldn't water running through also aerate ?

There are various type of soaker hose. It is important to know pore size and size of openings either for water or air release. Some soaker hoses produce very small bubbles; actually too small of bubbles where the pores quickly clog with bacteria, slime, and algae. Cleaning soaker hose is a high maintenance way of diffuser aeration.

Water running through the soaker hose will not aerate unless the hose is out of the water, not submerges. It takes pressure to push water out the soaker hose. Pressure costs money and is likely more expensive than creating air pressure.

Will soaker hose be lead based?
Use a sump pump with a venturi to add oxygen?
Instead of soaker hose use a sump pump maybe with venturi pushing water through pvc pipe with holes.

Air pump seems expensive.

Are u saying pumping water cost more than air??

I have only a surface aerator and a duckweed problem.

Cascade of water or fountain doesn't aerate bottom is my understanding.

""Are u saying pumping water cost more than air??"
Some engineer here ought to be able to calculate the cost difference of moving water with an air pump vs water pump. I do know it takes much more electricity to circulate & move water with a fountain compared to using a air pump.

Think about it. Water weighs 999.972 kilograms/cubic meter. Weight of air is 1.225 kg/m3 difference is 816 times heavier for water compared to air. Thus is is much more energy efficient to pump air than water. This translates into you can move or circulate much more water much more efficiently if you use air lift rising bubble technology compared to moving water with an electric pump. Now what you do with that compressed air can be efficient or inefficient.

So the sump pump with venturi idea?

Currently only have kasco surface aerator ( big motor with 2 blade prop aimed up creating a fountain)

My understanding is this doesn't aerate the bottom.is this true?

I assume using a 12 volt bilge pump even with venturi effect wouldn't be enough for a circular pond that's approximately 100 feet across and 4-6 feet deep is my guess.

Duckweed has been dip netted but quite a bit of duckweed on pond bottom.

If bilge or sump pump connected to pvc underwater with holes drilled be doable and cost effective with ample arration?

A proper aeration system with air underneath the water seems to cost a grand.

May be cheaper to run but startup cost is a grand imo.

Duckweed is already taking over and for an unknown period the surface aerator was inoperative.

DIY aeration system, as not a dealer package item, does not have to be "a grand". Depending on the size of the pond it can be done well for $150-300 or even less if you use creative knowledgeable methods. One can copy concepts and items from package systems, but this takes time and homework to get your knowledge up to "par". Some find it easier to just spend the money rather than spend lots of time developing a good homemade aeration system. Numerous threads and posts in the Aeration Section discuss DIY aeration systems.
It will take time just sorting through the older appropriate posts.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=11&page=1

Gathering & locating parts can take time. Just learning the best or type of parts to use takes time. Time is money to some and plentifully cheap & available for others. Costs can be saved by using unweighted airline, building your own diffuser which takes time, and locating good used air compressors. Using unweighted airline can involves adding weights and then one has to worry about airline kinks and snags due to weights hanging on the airline. Good individual membrane diffusers are not real expensive and can be used separately or ganged together on a PVC manifold and are available relatively inexpensivly from various sellers.

I have seen creative guys with shallow ponds use the vacuum pump from a junk car for the air pump. Note car vacuum air pumps will only develop enough air pressure for I think 4-5 ft deep. Used air conditioner pumps can create air pressure. Most air compressor pumps have a vacuum side and pressure side. I saw one guy use a used cow milking machine for the air pump. Try to find something that is oilless. Getting the best one for the job takes know-how.

Great post Bill.

One thing I would add is it is very easy for a DIY to shoot themselves in the foot. Say they save a hundred or two hundred dollars on an air pump by using a junk smog pump off a car and half horse electric motor they have laying around. They feel good about saving some money.

Only to find that the first season their electric bill increased enouh in six months running they could have paid for a proper pump that runs multiple times more efficient.

Is just a surface aerator enough? Does it effect the bottom? When pond was bought there were no working aerators and no spring but still had fish.

Surface aerators typically end up costing more to operate per amount of aeration generated.

Surface aerators are just that, mixers of the surface layer that is usually well mixed by activities of nature - weather. Do not expect surface aerators (fountains) to mix water much deeper than the depth of the intake fountain pipe. I once measured the DO in a pond that had a spray fountain(1/2hp) that had an intake 6ft long/deep. Mfg told and displayed a chart to everyone that it circulated the whole pond top to bottom. Pond was 10ft deep. Measurement on Aug 13. DO surf 9.4, 3'7.6, 4'7.0, 5'4.6, 6'3.2, 7'0.4, 9'0.3. One ft below the intake pipe water was not mixed-aerated. With decent wind action most ponds will naturally mix down to 5'to 6' deep. Strong wind action that produces white caps over a large surface distance will mix water deeper than 6ft depending on surface acres and height of waves.

Bill C.,

I've read posts in the past about guys doing things like running their boat motors during sudden and severe low DO conditions. Is that just to provide a temporary but shallow zone with acceptable DO levels for the fish to "ride out" the event?

What would you recommend? The circular pond is north to south approximately 100 ft across and east to West approximately 100 ft across that way and best estimate the deepest is 4 to 6 feet.

Any diy or homemade aerator options maybe using a sump or bilge pump that's fairly cheap to operate?

If aerator is on timer is daylight or night time the best to operate?

If the pond is mostly 4-6ft deep and it gets good wind exposure, I doubt it needs to be aerated. A fountain would serve this pond okay to keep surface water oxygenated in the area of the fountain during extended cloudy periods and water is soupy green, then DO is likely to be to be lowest at early morning. Your sump pump venturi idea would also work to save a few fish when there is a fish kill occurring or chance of occurrring.

If the water has secchi disk visibility of 2.5ft to 3 ft, phytoplankton and plants will produce DO at the bottom for depths of up to 7ft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secchi_disk
http://www.des.nh.gov/organization/divisions/water/wmb/vlap/documents/secchi.pdf
http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/research_methods/environ_sampling/turbidity.html

FF,

Just as a reference for you in the future in case you need it. If your pond is circular with a 100 foot diameter and 5 feet deep, your surface area is about .18 acres and the pond holds approximately 300,000 gallons.

Thanks, The kasco surface aerator is a motor with 2 blade prop aimed up sitting in floating ring like this but unsure of the hp size. http://www.aquaticponds.com/Kasco-Marine...7cNrhoCUmTw_wcB

The fountain or cascade is maybe a foot above the top of water.

I have a good amount of duckweed on the pond bottom as well. Will the duckweed on bottom surface or is it dead?

I suppose using the aerator as a circulator could help by mounting a motor horizontal instead of vertical if nothing else if it produces enough wake it may put all the duckweed together to ease in skimming it with net.

A small pond this size can develop a temporary thermal stratification. Windy conditions and/or cool rain can remix the pond.
For your needs I would seriously explore using a pond circulator instead of the fountain type.
https://www.pondliner.com/kasco-marine-3400cf-pond-circulators

Using a bilge pump sitting on dock not in water to pump air and not water would this burn up motor or work? It's 12 volt. I think I saw a youtube of a bilge pump pumping air and not water and lasted several years.

I thought that for getting the duckweed all to one side. I believe all I have to do is mount motor horizontal and not vertical.

Turning prop down instead of up supposedly becomes a deicer.

Fish, are you looking for advice or just someone to sign off on the idea you already have?

Are you sure you're dealing with duckweed?

Bilge pumps are designed to pump water, not air. They are also designed to run intermittently and are cooled by the water while they are running....IMO trying to use a bilge pump as you describe is a good way to destroy the pump and, if it pumps air at all before it dies, it will be very inefficient.

Totally new to this. I'm suppose to attend a pond management course this week but it will be easier imo if I know the basics. I posted pictures probably on my first post of thread I started. I believe it's duckweed. I believe the class will identify it if I take a sample.

Any links and what size aerator I need? According to previous post it will be cheaper to operate. I didn't know if I could make one and I'm looking for advice and where to look, and what to look for. I believe something quiet, and economic are the goals plus cheap

Hey FF,

First, I apologize if we are coming off a little tough on you but you came here for advice and none of us want to see you fail.

I offer this:

1) Bill C. provided you may not even need aeration but you do have a surface aerator already so IMO I would use it. I would pull that aerator though and make sure it's in good working order; not plugged up or has worn parts.

2) I agree with Sprkplug. The pics you showed of the "Duckweed" in your other post doesn't look like Duckweed to me. Duckweed has no discernible stems and tiny tiny flowers (maybe 3mm).

I'm not a pro but I hope you keep asking questions and know that our motives are to give the best answers we can for you to succeed.

You said fir a pond this size you would use a circulator. This size meaning small correct?
Just mounting horizontal becomes a circulator correct? And it will aerate while circulating correct?

Thermal stratification results in fish kill?

My guess before the class is its duckweed and or water meal but still new to this.

I have pics of piles of the weed I pulled out but it won't post.

Before its removed

Pile aftrr removed

Looks like maybe a strain of FA, filamentous algae, to me. The picture is not real clear. Might be something else mixed in there too.

Go here and look for yourself to see what you are dealing with:
http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/

They give management options for you as well. AFTER you have read the link, determined what you are dealing with (watermeal, duckweed or Filamentous Algae) and gone to class come back here and discuss your ideas for control/management. You have received very good information from the members here. Control and management for duckweed/watermeal and filamentous algae is different, but the underlying problem that caused it is the same.
(excess nutrients not being utilized by anything else in the pond)

cool thanks. If it's fa I already have crystalplex.

Small means small pond. A Kasko circulator is a special design and is not just a horizontally oriented water pump.

Your pictures are poor quality at best; too out of focus. It is like looking at your stuff through the bottom of a glass coke bottle. IMO others have it correct - doubtful it is duckweed. If you go the circulator route get the one from Kasko it is made to do what they are intended for. Now that you likely have FA a circulator may not be what you need since a circulator is better for duckweed than very coarse types of stringy FA.

Pictures were better but I had to keep cropping them because forum said couldn't be more than 2 mb

The kasco circulator and kasco surface aerator isn't the same motor?? So pond this size doesn't need aeration? What is the effect of the thermal stratification u mentioned? Fish kill?

A circulator and surface aerator fountain with the same size motor are designed to perform different tasks or methods of moving water. Watch the two styles operate and read about the benefits of each style. Try you tube for videos.

Thermal stratification is a feature of water and characteristic of water bodies and not necessarily a bad thing. Deep trout lakes stratify so can shallow ponds. Results of thermal stratification is dependent on the water quality in each pond/lake when and if it can cause problems. As a general rule the cloudier the water the more thermal stratification becomes a concern and more likely a fish kill could occur.

I'll admit I'm getting a little lost on this thread. To summarize what I think I know:

FF's pond is .18 acres in size and 4 to 6 feet deep. There is an existing 1 HP Kasco aerator in the pond. The aerator link provided depicts what I think is the style aerator discussed several months back here on the forum as an alternative to bottom diffuser aeration for shallow ponds. I can't remember which member brought the topic up but I seem to recall it is an aerator designed by a well known pond guy or fisherman and is capable of moving water to 10 feet depth (I think). One downside is it takes a large motor to move the water making it more expensive to operate than an air bottom diffuser. Does anybody remember more about this aerator or discussion?

Anyway, I don't see why FF needs more equipment over what he already has unless he wants to maybe save money on electric. As Bill C. pointed out, he may not need aeration at all. I would think he can always use his Kasco for short periods of time as all he needs to move is 300,000 gallons of water to turn the pond once.

I suspect I am missing a key point or two in this discussion. What am I missing?

If FF already has a 1 hp Kasko then he does not need anything else. I missed the post that he had an existing aerator.

I have Kasco surface aerator unknown how many hp it fountains up maybe a foot above water as it floats on top of water.

But now that it's running I still have floating weed mats that I guess are duckweed or FA. I read duckweed has a lack of bottom aeration as cause or part of the problem. The weed is on bottom too .Fishing is very difficult and can't see fish even at noon bc of all the weed or FA.

Posting a better picture is difficult bc of the 2 mb limit.

I think I see a point I missed. Are you thinking that aeration will eliminate the as yet to be positively identified vegtation? IMO, that will not happen. To quote:



IMO, you need to eliminate the source of the excess nutrients or introduce a more desirable vegetation to utilize them (or if the vegetation is FA you could stock tilapia if they are legal in your state). Otherwise, IMO, your options are keep mechanically removing the unwanted vegetation or periodic herbicide treatments.

At the end of the day it is your pond, your decision and your coins to spend on what you think is the best solution. I have offered all the advice I have so I will drop out of the discussion and wish you success on achieving your goals.

Bill D.

Yes I was under the impression if it was duckweed it's a lack of aeration issue. Currently both surface aerators are in shop. The pond had been without any human controlled aeration for at least months but don't know maybe even years.

The FA or weed gets in aerator and stops it and hinders fishing. I sprayed chemplex today again with a winded type spray bottle so if it's FA it should work.

My research states FA and duckweed like still water so I figure circulation aeration and or lack of wake was a cause or bottom lying issue. Fishing is frustrating due to the FA or weed.

Any cost or efficiency difference between using an air pump running hose straight to a diffuser as opposed to using air pump to pipe creating a suction or venturi effect to suck water up and drop it creating a fountaim?? The later I believe is air lift. I have watched many youtube videos and one person using a water pump with a hose in the air running to water pump is even titled air lift so it's confusing.

Actually you are talking about three different methods with three different purposes. Pump-airline to diffuser is for mixing deeper, larger volumes of water such as an entire pond 0.2-1acre. Venturi creates strong directional flow that is infused with bubbles for a relatively small distribution area. Air lift is a form of pump-airline- diffuser that creates directional flow as opposed to 360 degree distribution or spread of the airlift bottom diffuser. One has to match the method to the goal of what is needed.

BillD has the problem pretty well analyzed. Pumps and aeration will not solve the "weed" problem which is nutrient based. IMO the most efficient use of money and long term effort is to drain, deepen, and rebuild the nutrient enriched small pond. A pond of 4'-6' maximum depth with clear water is not much more, and can't be expected to be much more than a glorified weedy swamp-wetland unless one creates turbid water or applies a heavy use of algaecides or herbicides.


As mentioned don't expect aeration to control nutrient based plant growth. However the proper weed-algae eating fish could significantly reduce the plant growth and create adequate turbidity that would then reduce future plant growth while continuing to consume most of the recurring plant growth.

PS - Both of your surface aerators are in the shop because it is very hard mechanical work for a motor to constantly lift and throw high into the air water that weighs 40 lbs per 5 gallons. Motor burn out is common and should be expected.

PSS - ""Yes I was under the impression if it was duckweed it's a lack of aeration issue."" This is a wrong philosophy and contrary to the facts that govern natural growth and feature of duckweed. You may not even have duckweed which is another wrong fact.

I wonder if a fish kill caused the abundant of nutrients as there isnt any farms within 1 mile.

I guess part of the confusion with airlift is all the many youtube videos using different methods but all calling them airlift.

Either way an air pump is cheaper than operating a water pump, correct?

on a side note if I used a 12 volt system I could incorporate solar charging possibly in the mix.

Thanks, I'm totally new yo pond management.

I don't see where crystalplex I used yesterday has made any difference.

Will photobucket work here for posting better pictures?

Adding water would make it deeper, it was dry here then we received quite a bit of rain and it was looking better.

If you have the green growth on the bottom IT IS NOT DUCKWEED. Face it -- your pond has too much shallow water and is likely too nutrient enriched from many years of nutrients and dead plant accumulation. The more that accumulates the more that plants want to grow. Until it is deepened it will cause you constant headache and stress if you don't want it to be a constant Money Pit and DO want it to be weed free fishing. Shallow water demands to grow plants. Natures Way!

Crystal Plex active ingredient is Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate. It is a buffered form of copper sulfate and results in slower kill of algae. Allow up to 2-5 days to see effects IF you used the correct dosage on an appropriate amount of algae and if you applied it correctly.

Yes, a lot of folks, including me, use it. When viewing a pic on photobucket there are 4 share options on the right hand side. Click the last one and it will say "copied." Then when you are posting on the forum, just click ctrl V wherever you want the pic to appear in your post and a link will appear. Once you submit the post the pic will appear in your completed post.

Duckweed watermeal and spikerush

Is that the ID from your pond class instructor? If so, first, kudos to you on sticking to yer guns on Duckweed. Second, PLEASE post a clear image of the one previously posted using photobucket so we can all see.

Yes that's what I was advised. I'll have to make a photo bucket account again. Received tons of publications.

Duck weed has three species. It is a tiny 1 to 3 leafed or lobed green plant with a single tiny root hair that drops down from the middle of the 'leafbase'. The whole single plant will be about 1/2 the size of your smallest finger nail. For a pretty good picture and cause see this:
http://www.lakerestoration.com/t-duckweed-control.aspx

If you have duckweed this is another good sign the pond needs to be dredged and deepened. The pond is telling you it is going toward swamp conditions. It only grows in very nutrient over enriched calm water bodies. Where I live, I see it most often in drainage ditches that receive septic waste as the nutrient source. It is characteristic of very old ponds that have become nutrient over enriched from annual deposits of nutrients and organic materials.

Much better pics! Can you post a clearer image of this one?

Last year

same pics but forum made me keep cropping them before I could posr.

Much better. I see what could be DW or WM along with a great deal of something (s) else. What you have removed in the photos is neither DW nor WM.

Spikerush is the other.

http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/plant-identification/alphabetical-index/spike-rush/

I also had water sample and had it tested.

First one within 5 minutes, one got away and still caught 5 fairly quick.

The class was very informational. They said abundance of nutrients is cause and recommended chemicals and carp.

Fish stocking was a big portion of the class and I'd say the majority had weed issues.

I asked about stocking fhm and they were against it and weren't a big fan of using dye.

Dye can work in the correct conditions especially when the pond is shallow and there is no outflow to constantly dilute dye. Strongly consider the grass carp. Add them gradually over the next 5-7 years. Don't initially put in enough to denude the pond. You WANT and NEED some plants as habitat and to compete against FA and too much phytoplankton which can cause new problems. If your pond is circular and 100ft diameter that calculates 7800sqft 0.18ac. Start with 2-3 grass carp and see what they do after 2 yrs. Then with tilapia weeds are abundant add 1 carp. One grass carp in FL can eat 1.5-2 pickup truck loads of weeds per year. Replace them after they get to be 8-9 yrs old. They are very good to eat. Nice mild white flaky meat.


Consider with the grass carp, tilapia who eat FA and reproduce to provide bass food and people food. Tilapia are very good dinner guests and IMP better than bass.

where in FL is your pond?

Near Tallahassee

How old do you think those 5 bass are?