Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Bob's new blog post

Trophy size of numerous species of fish was first described in the literature by Gabelhouse 1984 to assess fish stocks that included creation of the standard weight and relative weight values. Some of the sizes for his definition of trophy fish included:
Standard weight in pounds follows for some of the more common fish.
BG 12" 1.61 lb
BC-blue cat 45"
BCP 15" and White WCP 2.28 lb
CC 36" 19.84 lb
GSF 12"
HSB 25" 8.71 lb
LMB 25" 9.35 lb
NP 44" 22.04 lb
PSF 12" 1.6 lb
RES 13" 1.63 lb
RKB-Rock Bass 13" 1.68 lb
SMB 20" 4.7 lb
SPB-Spotted Bass 20" 4.46 lb
WE 30" 11.36 lb
YP 15" 1.96 lb
Gabelhouse, D.W. 1984. A length-categorization system to asses fish stocks. N.Am.J.Fish. Mgmt. 4:371-384.

Didnt Bob and Dave right an article for pb about state record fish in ponds? That might be an interesting addition to this post if someone better than me can find it and put a link to it...

I think the definition of trophy, and perhaps large as well, depends greatly on location. In regards to Bluegill, the fish I am most familiar with, a one pound individual is not commonplace in my area. However, if you were to tell most casual anglers that you caught a 1 lb. Bluegill, most of them would respond by saying that they had too, or that they knew of a pond that contained hundreds of fish that size. Once an accurate scale is produced, most are shocked to see that the 9-10" BG that they were sure weighed a pound, struggles to make 3/4lb. I think it's hard for the average angler, or even some pondowners to envision what a true trophy fish looks like.

Present company excepted, of course.

Can a comparison between growing trophy sized fish and maximizing the corn yield from of an acre of crop land be drawn.

Assuming a corn crop receives all the required soil inputs, such as moisture and fertilizer the corn will reach its optimal yield each and every time.

Soil inputs, which ensure growth optimization, can be placed in the soil when the seed is planted. The corn then draws what it needs when it needs it through out its growing cycle. So how can I do this with my fish? As the fish grows its requirements for optimal growth are also changing.

When an 1 acre forage pond is at capacity, with say 1,000 lbs of fatheads, and 100 6" BCP are stocked for the first time. The pond is set perfect for optimal BCB fish growth. Those fish shoot to 12" in 2-3 seasons. As the BCP grow, the forage becomes less optimal in size and numbers. Also, with numerous offspring growth optimization declines even further. The question I have is: How do I optimize the forage base (size and numbers) and maximize the fish growth with the constraint of a single ponds carrying capacity? Nate, are you basically using multiple ponds, with each pond optimized for different stages of a fishes growth to achieve trophy fish?

It would be interesting if we could go back and find the age and classification of the ponds that produced those state records to see if a pattern emerges.

mnfish, its hard in the real world to get that technical to do what you just described in depth, but it sure would be a fun experiment to move a batch of fish from pond to pond each loaded with their optimum forage!

Ozark, you are definitely onto something! Start digging up that data (or are you hoping your suggestions will spur on Eric West to do the actual searching)

Ken, you and Esshup already put in 'other' ponds and hatchery ponds before reading this thread- Why? what where you thinking?? Why put in smaller ponds when you already have nice sized ponds!

Docg down in North Carolina is raising awesome smallmouth bass in a pond already loaded with big largemouth bass. Common 'fisheries' knowledge tells him that it can't or shouldnt be done, but with his cages and hatchery pond he is overcoming the natural odds and growing "trophy" (north carolina trophy) smallmouths!

Now that Bill Cody has helped define what industry standard Trophy sized fish are, I am still hoping to hear about more people's experiences with trophy fish? Come on surely you folks out there have raised or caught a trophy fish!

This whole thread makes my head hurt. I believe everything that Bob said is probably correct, but I don't feel like results for super sized LMB are anything more than a roll of the dice in the wild.

In Texas, where we like everything bigger and better, a tremendous white tail deer hi-fence culture has emerged. Breeding males are pen raised, and semen sold, much like race horses and cattle. Some of these bucks have rack sizes that are obscenely huge to say the least. When they breed though, the actual results reflect lots of trophy deer, but few new state records.

The lack of any new TX state records for LMB however, tends to make me believe the results are almost completely forage based. When Fork filled, there was unlimited forage for an incredibly small LMB population. Now, years down the road, Lake Fork produces hundreds of 10 pound LMB annually, and almost on a daily basis. But few are over 13 pounds. The competition for forage has increased, so the true monsters have to fight more for food.

With the loss of water at Fork and Falcon last year, and the subsequent refilling, I believe the next several years will show a tremendous number of new trophy LMB. Tilapia at Falcon, and shad at Fork drive the food chain, and I know for a fact that Fork has roaming schools of shad that literally black out a graph.

So, unless you only stock genetically superior females in a clean pond, add an abundance of forage of differing sizes, then wait 10 years, I don't know if real world results will ever reach their true potential. It is fun to try though.

All of my trophy fish have come from very large bodies of waters. Yellow Perch from Lake Michigan, Walleye from Lac Suel, Lake Erie, and Little bay DeNoc, and Muskie for Lake of the woods. I almost forgot the drum I just caught on Lake Erie.

I hope to in the next year or two to catch a trophy BG from BOW.

Totally disagree - We have a pond that was stocked in 1989 and today in 2012 are catching large crappie and HBG - (no stocking in between) those fish couldn't live 23 years in WI with 1 freeze out on top of that. They were born in the pond and grew to that size on their own in the pond. I am with Kingrace on this one.

In response to Bob's post - it sounds like Bob is looking at Genetics management more.

So after reading all these posts and keeping Bob's post in mind. Could this be done?

You mange for genetics and create a LMB that can't reproduce - then fill your pond/large with them and you then do put and take with your newly created LMB that can't reproduce.

Just stock only females from your purebred LMB breed. Better yet, stock females from the first generation of a cross between two genetically distinct monster LMB bloodlines for hybrid vigor and large size.

I googled and found the article....It is from the Nov/dec 2010 issue of pb titled state record fishes from small private waters written by Dave Willis and Bob Lusk for sdstate. Now I just do not know how to get it from there to here. It is a pretty interesting read.

As far as the tr0phies I have caught by the guidelines in Bill's post all have come from major resevoirs (striper, hsb, We, lmb, smb,and bc) with the exception of bluegill and redears, those have come from ponds. Perhaps it maybe a good idea to tag all fish of trophy interest intially introduced into a pond and make them exempt from any other types of cull limits imposed after the pond has taken off to ensure their survival and help them reach their full potential.

Even then you are going to have offspring that grow at different rates but it is a good start.

The largest fish that I typically shock in a years time are in lakes following a major fish kill. Those original fish couldnt live 23 years, but I bet a few years following your fish kill in the late 90's/ early 2000's the survivors of the kill grew to very large sizes and some of which are still alive today. Good chance for another fish kill freeze out within the next few years as your fish population again builds larger than your pond can support during a stressful period of time.

Most of the striper, hsb, and We caught in the united states are stocked fish. Many large bodies of water also get stocked at some point periodically with LMB and SMB from state hatcheries. Many states raise tons of fish for stocking into their waters annually.

Good point.

Sorry, just spotted this.

Try clicking on the link below. It should take you to state record fishes in private waters.

http://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/pond...ov-Dec-2010.pdf

The two species with which I am most familiar for record fish from private ponds are the crappies. Many state records do come from ponds, but very often they came from ponds where pondowners didn't even know they were present. Either density was low, someone introduced a fish or two, or density of small largemouth bass was so high that there was almost no recruitment of crappies. Nate pointed out this type of scenario earlier in this thread.

Nate, the reason for the small ponds are to grow feed trained Pumpkinseeds, SMB and Trout (specifically the first stocking will be Brown Trout) for sale.

I know a buyer for feed trained pumkinseeds, smb, and brown trout!

I figure it's better to raise fish that are in short supply than to raise fish that can be sourced anywhere!

Almost all WE, HSB and pure stripers stocked by public fish agencies are stocked as fry or tiny as in 1" maybe 2" fingerlings. Does this give them an advantage over wild born fish as say compared to a fish stocked as an 8" fingerling?

CJB, Many of the state hatcheries that I am familiar with grow out fish larger than fry or 1 inchers for stockings. Also I know alot of the private guys up in Minnesota who get the contracts from the state to stock millions of walleye fingerlings 5-8 inches long.

Things must be done differently in the Midwest than here in the east. About the only advanced fingerling stocked in the east are Esox species.

CJ, they do stock advanced fingerlings here of multiple species. Some by the state, some funded by sportsman clubs in state owned waters.