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Joined: Dec 2009
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Hall of Fame 2015 Lunker
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"They are filled with air but are not air tight so water will be absorbed into the pellet over time. As the water displaces the air they do become less buoyant and start to sink. Hope this helps."
I think I mentioned that earlier, but nooooobody listens Wish I knew about this betting thing Ken mentioned. Would have been easy cash
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Lunker
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I love sausage gravy and biscuits but you can't beat a good crappie dinner .
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This getting really good. Anybody want to place odds on Cecil vs. Cody -- or vice versa?
As a long time member of Pond Boss, and as a moderator, I'd usually intervene to stop this.
But, I consider both Cecil and Bill as really good, and equal, friends. Cecile and Cody are also good friends. This may be the best PB discussion between good friends that we've ever had.
Yep we're friends so nothing serious here. But who the hell is Cecile? That's a girl's name!
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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I hope my friend Cecil is not mad at me for winning this debate. Not mad whatsoever Bill, but your expert has actually proven my point. I do appreciate the pictures although they look like sausage patties to me and prove nothing. Now to put this discussion to rest, I received this from Bob Wucher at Purina Mills, District Manager, Livestock & Pet Specialist, who attended the PBoss V conference: "" They are filled with air but are not air tight so water will be absorbed into the pellet over time. As the water displaces the air they do become less buoyant and start to sink. Hope this helps."" Thanks a lot Bob, it did help my argument in the discussion. I hope my friend Cecil is not mad at me for winning this debate. As the water displaces the air they do become less buoyant and start to sink. That's not my experience Bill. Is it yours? For me most of the hydrated pellets float until you squeeze them. Apparently Bill Wucher hadn't hydrated any pellets like we do? Furthermore IF the air is displaced by the water, when they are hydrated, that makes your argument that squeezing the pellet pushes the air out -- and makes them sink -- moot doesn't it? Nothing settled here IMHO. Just because there is air in the pellet (as you say) does not mean that compressing it doesn't make it denser causing it to sink -- along with the added moisture. Try holding hydrated pellets underwater, squeezing them and see if you get any air bubbles coming out. Then get back to me.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/06/12 08:53 AM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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There has been alot of displaced air in this thread.
Last edited by Tums; 11/06/12 09:12 AM.
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There has been alot of displaced air in this thread. This is nothing and there should be no reason we can't keep this civil. Have you ever observed scientists with big egos debate a theory? Now that's something to see! Normally if someone comes up with a revolutionary idea, or disagrees with the standard theory of the day, all hell breaks lose. Sometimes after a few years the new theory is accepted. It's human nature to get defensive if someone challenges your beliefs as wrong. I remember not long ago when a researcher produced a paper that said gastric ulcers were not caused by stress, but by certain kinds of bacteria. The medical profession baulked at it but it's accepted a fact now.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Squeezing a soft pellet under water would not release enough air under water to actually see it come out of the pellet because the air amount is very small. Let's try squeezing lots of pellets under water and see if air is visable.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Excellent....now I can add another subject to my list of PondBoss unmentionables:
1) Religion 2) Politics 3) Global warming 4) Georgia Giants 5) Why do pinched feed pellets sink?
With each passing day I grow more secure in the knowledge that I am less likely to commit a faux pas here at PB by delving into forbidden territory........keep em' comin'
And just for the record, I think you're both driving to the same destination, you're just taking two different routes......
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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i actually did squeeze pellets under water in my aquaponic system when i was feed training the yp and bg.. i did see a couple bubbles come out of the mix,, but then again, that could have been on my fingers trapped in voids between the pellets
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There has been alot of displaced air in this thread. This is nothing and there should be no reason we can't keep this civil. Have you ever observed scientists with big egos debate a theory? Now that's something to see! I have no problem with it and you 2 have done well on keeping things civil. I have been in several situations with scientists (and engineers) with their egos. You are correct on that is something to see. I am the one that sometimes reminds them of the principle of Occam's Razor.
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Fingerling
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Perhaps one could take the "batter" of pellets mixed with water and whip it in a mixer until reintegrated with air (or making the pellets less dense?) dry it in whatever shape you want. Adding egg white or a little yeast while mixing would allow the mixture to be less dense (or inclusive of more gasses). Either way I'm thinkin they will float. Anybody heard of 5 lb green sunfish crosses? Called the Kansas Kolossus...think I'm gonna get some...comes with free popcorn too...
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Perhaps one could take the "batter" of pellets mixed with water and whip it in a mixer until reintegrated with air (or making the pellets less dense?) dry it in whatever shape you want. Adding egg white or a little yeast while mixing would allow the mixture to be less dense (or inclusive of more gasses). Either way I'm thinkin they will float. Anybody heard of 5 lb green sunfish crosses? Called the Kansas Kolossus...think I'm gonna get some...comes with free popcorn too... Heck yeah. Fire up the griddle, grab the butter and maple syrup...nothing like a big stack of Aquacakes.... or flapmax.... I'm not familiar with the Kolossus, but I'm working on a Hoosier Humongosaur.....
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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It seems this thread will not die.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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I thought this was a joke and gave up on it seems pretty straight forward to me..
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease.. BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.
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It seems this thread will not die. Nope. He He!
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Perhaps one could take the "batter" of pellets mixed with water and whip it in a mixer until reintegrated with air (or making the pellets less dense?) dry it in whatever shape you want. Adding egg white or a little yeast while mixing would allow the mixture to be less dense (or inclusive of more gasses). Either way I'm thinkin they will float. Anybody heard of 5 lb green sunfish crosses? Called the Kansas Kolossus...think I'm gonna get some...comes with free popcorn too... Hey you know you're hijacking the original topic of this thread right? I would never do such a thing.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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i actually did squeeze pellets under water in my aquaponic system when i was feed training the yp and bg.. i did see a couple bubbles come out of the mix,, but then again, that could have been on my fingers trapped in voids between the pellets Sssssh!
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Hall of Fame Lunker
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There has been alot of displaced air in this thread. This is nothing and there should be no reason we can't keep this civil. Have you ever observed scientists with big egos debate a theory? Now that's something to see! I have no problem with it and you 2 have done well on keeping things civil. I have been in several situations with scientists (and engineers) with their egos. You are correct on that is something to see. I am the one that sometimes reminds them of the principle of Occam's Razor. I love Occam's Razor! A principal I live by. That and I live by the KISS principal!
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Squeezing a soft pellet under water would not release enough air under water to actually see it come out of the pellet because the air amount is very small. Soooooo what you're saying is there isn't a significant amount of air to make it sink after you pinch it... Wow I didn't think you'd come around 180 degrees like this so fast Bill but I'm grateful. Case closed!
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/06/12 01:19 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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I've never met a KISS principal, but I had a guidance counselor once that looked a lot like Angus Young of AC/DC.....
Is that too obscure for this crowd??
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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That funny I had a math teacher who looked like The lead singer of twisted sister Dee Snider, Bad part is the teacher was Female not good..
I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease.. BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.
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I was a lead singer of a garage band in college. Long hair and all too! Is that on topic enough?
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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I was a lead singer of a garage band in college. Long hair and all too! Is that on topic enough? Photos?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Posts: 15,146 Likes: 488
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Back to the MAIN hijacked topic: (for you other wannabe hijackers get your own topic to hijack.) CB1 says ""Soooooo what you're saying is there isn't a significant amount of air to make it sink after you pinch it..."
No it is not a 180 degree change in position. Stop twisting my words. What I am saying is - there is enough air in the pellet to make it float, but not enough air for you to see it bubble out of the soft pellet as it is squeezed. There is only a miniscule amount of air in each extruded pellet and very likely not enough air volume to see it released as bubles with your old bifocal needing eyes.
Ok - for all you doubtors, I took 6 hydrated pellets and lightly formed them together to minimize air between each of the 6 pellets. I squeezed the enlarged pellet under water. Low and behold at least 5 or 6 small bubbles came out of the larger pellet. Now I suppose you want to see the video as proof.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/06/12 02:18 PM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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I'm not exactly sure (and quite frankly scared) what direction this post will take next so I'm going to post quickly and retreat.
Referring back to Cat's post, my intent is to never release the crappie into my small 0.13 acre pond. The whole experiment was to see whether or not I could get black crappie to accept pellets. In my case that answer is yes. Your comment about flesh mass of BG vs BCP is interesting.
I'd also like to address a note I received concerning feed. From the date that I introduced pellets to the last week of October I figure that I used 16-17 lbs of feed.
With cooler temps of Fall and Winter moving in, I'm shifting my focus from BCP to the RBT I picked up from the hatchery yesterday. Barring any significant changes, I will update this post after ice out next spring.
I now return you to your (ir)regularly scheduled debate.
For all those that have commented, thank you !
- Russ
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