Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Can I do this myself?

I have a small (maybe 1/2 acre at most) pond that is 7-8 feet deep. It is stocked with some catfish and perch. I know it needs to be aerated, but I don't want to spend a fortune buying the system or running it. (We are in the Houston area, BTW, so no freezing and very hot weather most of the summer.) It seems to me this is something I *should* be able to put together myself fairly easily.

The compressor will be in my garage, and I figure there will be a run of airhose maybe 300-400 feet.

What do I need to buy to get this thing up and running?

I've read the archives and the recommendations, but most people seem to be dealing with bigger ponds and/or shorter runs, etc.

Any help would be oh-so-appreciated, as I want to get this taken care of ASAP.

Thanks!

My pond is very similiar to yours (about half acre, a little deeper though around 10').

I found a used Gast Rotary Vane Air Pump on Ebay $80 delivered a couple years ago. It was used in a science lab at some university.

I also bought an Intermatic Timer Switch on there (dont remember how much I got it for, maybe 20?)

Use some garden hose to get the air to the pond and some of that Soaker hose weighted down in the bottom for the diffuser.

Thats about as "Cheap" as it gets for a 4.5 cfm Rotary vane system, but thats what I wanted.

I have slowly upgraded as I had the means. Bought a Membrane diffuser from Bill Cody. Works tons better than the soaker hose. Just a little higher up front cost. I could probably put some pictures up tomorrow if it will help. Also added a nice pressure gauge and PRV in case it freezes. Might not need that by you.

Charlie, I've got exactly the same situation as you as far as pond size and depth. If you want to keep your pond destratified then you definitely need at least as rotary vane pump. The centrifugal blowers that a lot of people use won't provide enough pressure to pump down to the bottom at 8 feet. I bought a similar vane pump as Wrangler man describes, these are made for pressures up to around 15 psi. You will need about 5 psi to reach the bottom and another 5 psi to overcome resistance in your long air line. I had to run about 400 feet of line and used 1/2 inch plastic irrigation pipe, wished I had used 3/4 inch since my pump is now driving 10psi. Would be less with larger hose. I wouldn't use anything but a air stone diffuser. I've tried both membrane diffusers and air stones. The air stones do an obvious better job of producing small bubbles for much better aeration. Membrane units are not meant for efficiency in adding air to water. You also definitely need a check valve right before the diffuser so that the pump doesn't have to drive all the water out of the line every time it has been shut off and restarted. You can find various manufacturers of vane pumps on the internet. A 1/4 hp unit is more than adequate for 1/2 acre. Go to Aquatic Ecosystems web site and look up their technical help on pumps and you'll find good information on how to pick the right size. There is lots of good technical info on their site. They also sell all the diffusers and other stuff you would need. I went the do-it-yourself route and copied what they sold by buying all the parts locally and built a 1/2HP aeration unit. Still cost about $600 but was much cheaper than buying the unit already assembled. I also devised a cheap way to mount the air stones on a weighted stand slightly off the bottom. This holds the thing in place and you need to be off the bottom otherwise the thing will just keep digging its own hole. Definitely an easy do-it-yourself project as long as you size the pump and lines correctly.

I have the same kind of pond. Research Gast rotary vane compressors. You need 1.5 to 2 cfm at minumum 5 PSI, which is about 10 ft water. You can start with a soaker hose coiled up in a 5 ga. bucket.(10 ft or so) Put some large gravel in it to keep it down. Later, when you get a round rubber diffuser, you can add 2 pieces of pvc in an X near bottom of bucket to keep it from tipping. It has done wonders for my water condition in 2 months in an old pond. With all the nutrients from felled trees and grass mowed in the upper hollow, it would have been covered with grass, moss etc, if not for this. The cost of running the compressor will be about $10-15 per month, if run 24/7 which I suggest all summer. The fish will love you for it and grow big for eating. C & S sales on line has a small compressor to get you started for $40 bucks. This one runs on negligible electricity.

One more thing. I suggest 1/2 PVC semi rigid pipe from Lowes.(black) $10 for 100 ft roll. They have all sorts of barbed splices, hose clamps etc.

Charlie,
Check out this thread:
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000047

Lots of info on do it yourself aerators.

Thanks for the quick responses. So - I'm looking for:

a rotary vane compressor, in the range of 1.5 to 2 cfm at 5-10 PSI (better to be closer to 10 psi because of the long hose run, right?)

a diffusor of some sort (I have lots of peices of soaker hose here already, so I might just start with that to get the process going - then upgrade later this summer)

1/2 or 3/4" piping/tubing to run the air from the compressor to the diffusor/airstone/soaker hose in the water

I like the bucket idea - I am assuming I should plop the bucket in the middle of the pond (it is pretty much an oval shape) with some sort of rope to a float so I can pull it back up to check on things, clean the hose, etc.

The compressor will be in the garage.

The air hose runs from the compressor to the water and into the water, down to the bottom of the pond. (Do I have to weight down the air hose once it hits the water? Anything in particular to use or not use as weights?)

In the water in the middle of the pond, the airhose connects with the soaker hose, which sits in a weighted bucket on the bottom.

The compressor runs 24/7, at least through the summer months.

Do I have it right? Anything else I have to worry about?

Charlie

One more question -

Exactly how are these compressors connected to the electricy? I presume they are not cord-and-plug, so they will have to be hard wired in some fashion.

Charlie

For a Gast compressor check out Stoney Creek Equipment company. The compressors are made in Michigan and Stoney Creek is also in Michigan. I was purusing through an Aquatic Ecosystems catalog the other day and their systems are way overpriced! My God! I think that may be why some folks think they can't afford the systems.

The rotary vane compressor I have was wired ready to plug in at 120 volts. You can specify 220 if you wish, which would save you electricity as in ruduced amps. That is if you have 220 available.

You can do what you want with the airline(s) and diffusers, but you're wasting your time trying to match a good quality compressor that is made just for what you are trying to achieve. You'd proabably be wasting efficiency and paying through the nose on electricityy bills with a homemade version.

Here's Stoney Creek's link:

http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/form/aeration_lake.htm

Cecil, I see the AES rotary vane pump 1/3 HP at $407 and Stoneycreek 1/4 HP both same cfm output at $395.00 The AES is a Sweetwater made by Gast without the carbon vane filters. So dont see AES that much out of line compared on that item. I advertise that same pump for $295.

Ah but TLF,

I was talking about the "systems" as far as price was concerned not the compressor itself.

$854.00 for only a rocking piston compressor and UNWEIGTHTED tubing and four airstones? Seems high to me. (DAIA)

Oh I guess there is a cabinet if that is what you want to call it.

CJC - Airline from shore to diffuser does not have to be weighted to bottom, but most people add weights to keep it on the bottom and away from swimmers, boaters and anglers. Lots of things that sink have been used to weight down the airline. Most important point is to NEVER kink the airline; spread the weight out along the length of the weight on the hose instead of in one small spot. Not kinking the hose is much easier said than done for some people, depending.

Compressor can be direct wired or a grounded wall plug can be installed, most use wall plug.

Consider coiling your hose on a wire rack and attaching it to a small car tire. Tire needs a few holes in upper sidewall so it will readily sink. Email me for pictures.

I used ty rap cable ties and bricks with holes and strapped them every 15 ft or so. Cecil is correct 99.9% of the time, I got the idea of the bucket and pvc pipe to keep it from tipping also,
BUT, electrical wattage will be the same for a given motor whether from 220 or 110 vac. The amps current will be 1/2 as much, but wattage(power) = volts times amps so power is the same.
IE, 220 volt motor at 1 amp current = 220 watts.
110v motor, if a dual voltage motor will draw 2 amps. 110 X 2 = 220 watts. The electricity wont kill you in price anyway, compared to all the other goodies you will end up spending. it still beats a large boat, gas, fees, crowds, etc.
good luck.

one more thing. If you use the coiled up soaker hose, ty rap it together in 3 or 4 places and drill a hole in the side of bucket to pass the pvc thru and attach to the hose. Weight the opposite side of the coiled hose, as it will tend to rise up when filled with air.

Burgermeister,

So you saying if you're using half the watts by going 220 vs. 110 your not saving on your electrical bill? I was under the impression watts are what you're paying for.

You are correct. You are paying for watts. Look at the formula. Volts times amps = watts. In my example, 220 watts either case. 220 volts comes into play with heavy current loads or long distances. It is the amps that cause voltage drops. Voltage drop =amps times resistance of wire in ohms. Smaller wire has more resistance.
If you are running cable a long distance to a pond you either have to go to a higher voltage or larger cable. That is how electricity is delivered over long distances. It is stepped up to several thousand volts at lower current and the transformers in local neighborhoods step it back down to 220 volts. The power(kilowatts remains constant except for loses in transformers etc. I know this is a pond forum, but since I dont have much experience in ponds, if anyone has any questions about electrical devices I may be able to help.

burgermeister is correct. A 110V motor pulling 2 amps (110 x 2 = 220 watts) A 220V motor pulling half that (220 x 1 = 220 watts)
One of the major reasons higher voltages is used is to reduce the weight & cost of the motor, wiring and associated motor control centers. For example a 1000 hp motor would be HUGE if it were 110V due to the amount of copper needed & of course would weigh tons! The wiring would be as big around as your leg! However such large motors powered by 4000 V have copper feed wires the size of your pinky.

For the advanced electricians. A friend who recently took some electricial classes said that his teacher said that running a motor with 220V vs 110 volts does not save any more electricity unless the motor is using three phase. In the single phase electrical current a motor running on 110 consumes as much electricity as the same motor running on 220. Teacher told the class that most electricians do not realize this point. Any comments?

There shouldn't be any difference in power consumption between 110v and 220v single phase motors. Intuitively I agree that 3-phase motors could be more efficient, with only 120 deg of separation between peaks in the current. But I sure don't qualify as an advanced electrician wrt power; it's been 25 years since I took that class and I didn't have to pay attention to get an A.

I imagine few of us have three phase power available at home to have to worry about it.

the only advantage to 220v , is the distance running the power. i have a building 1,000 x 1,000 i have to run lighting , if i run all the lighting at 110 , the wire size would not be practical , would cost to much. you would have to go 220v. 5 amps is 5 amps , either in one leg or 2.

Thanks, everyone

You have given me some great ideas and a direction. Now I have to go off and buy what I need.

(In the meantime, talk to the rain gods about rain for this part of Texas. We have had less than 1/4" of rain since the first of June, and combined with temps that are in the high 90's - things are starting to suffer.)

Charlie

Join the club. Same here in northeastern Indiana. However there occasionally are some scatter TS with heavy downpours but you have to be luck to get under them.

Fortunately for me I pump 24/7 into a trout pond and can use a small sump pump off of that into any pond I need to keep up.

Cecil, sleep well at night knowing that you are not throwing away good money by using a 110v system.

Charlie, you said that you are near Houston, Kelly Duffie is a national herbicidal co. rep in H town and may be interested in setting up something with microbes for experimentation and monitoring the cleanup process with aeration and his specific bacteria strains. I would also , as would many others, be intrigued with the results.
Maybe Kelly will weigh in, or you can send him an e-mail.

Just for kicks and since I'm an engineer I ran some numbers to try to quantify the difference in running 110 volts versus 220 volts. The bottom line is that 220 volts is a little better choice especially if you have a long run from power source to the motor, and it will run cooler. Here’s why. Let’s say you run a 12 gauge copper wire 100 feet from your breaker box to motor. This wire has a resistance of 0.00187 ohms per foot for a total resistance of 0.187 ohms. Let’s say you are running a generic 1/2 hp motor, it theoretically draws an average of 3.4 amps at 110 volts. The power loss in a wire is I x I x R, where I is current draw and R is total resistance. So in this situation you will lose 3.4 x 3.4 x 0.187 = 2.16 watts of power. Every hour you run the pump you lose 0.00216 kw-hr. If you run continuously you will lose 18.9 kw-hr per year. If you pay the average national rate of 10 cents per kw-hr this line loss will cost you $1.89 per year. Now if you use the same motor but switch it over to 220 volts the current draw is exactly half of that when running at 110 volts which is 1.7 amps. The power loss is 1.7 x 1.7 x 0.187 = 0.54 watts = 0.00054 watts = one fourth the loss at 110 volts. For an entire year you’ve now lost 4.7 kw-hr per year which cost $0.47 per year, again one fourth of what you lose at 110 volts. The difference is small but there is a difference. Now what if you have a 1000 foot run the electricity you waste running that same motor is $18.92 per year at 110 volts and $4.70 at 220 volts. I think this ought to settle the case that no one is wasting much money on buying the kw-hrs by going 110 versus 220 volts unless you have very long distances to run the wires. Ah, but that’s not all you lose. There is also a voltage drop associated with power line length. The voltage drop in the line is V = I x R. I’ll spare the math but for a 1000 foot run and the motor draw we’re talking about you would lose 6.4 volts by the time you got 110 volts to the motor while you lose 3.2 volts running at 220 volts. This is half the voltage drop however it is a bigger percentage of the 110 volt power. You are losing 6% of your 110 volt power and only 1.5% of your 220 volt power. Here’s that ratio of one quarter again. This is a real loss in pumping air that the motor can’t produce since it has less voltage. You will not see this in your electric bill but you will see it in at least 6% and 1.5% less air going into your pond. Maybe more depending upon the deisgn of the motor and pump. What is that air worth? It is worth whatever it would cost to pump it. So in one year at 110 volts and 1000 feet of line you will lose the equivalent of 195 kw-hrs of air pumping due to less efficient motor which cost $19.55. At 220 volts you will lose 49 kw-hrs which cost $4.90. So to sum this up while running a 1/2 hp motor for one year with 1000 foot of 12 gage wire you will pay $14.22 more for electricity and get $14.65 less air. This cost you a total of $28.87 to run 110 versus 220 volts. It all depends on wire size and distance. Another consideration is that you generally never want to lose more than 10% of your voltage when running a motor (it will overheat), if you use 220 volt it may allow you to use a smaller wire size and save wire cost. Again it depends on distance. I think this is correct and I hope it helps.

I didnt read it, but I'm sure if you are also an engineer, it is correct. I thought I had lost enough people with the kiss concept, how many people do you think kept up with you?

I think if Cecil's compressor has dual windings and can be either series for 220 or parallel for 110, then the difference is negligible.

Cecil. still sleep well at night.