Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Broken Drain Pipe

New to Forum! Thank God you folks are here. I live on a 4 acre pond built back in the late 40's. The pond averages 8 to 22 feet deep. Noticed yesterday the lake has gone down a bit, it HAS be 100 degrees outside. But it dropped a bunch in a day, like 3 feet!. Checked the overflow pipe and it wasn't there! Broke off 22 feet down at the bottom under the 2 feet of decayed leaves and crap. On the back side of dam the overflow pipe comes out at the bottom of the dam, which the water was gushing out of the 5 inch steel pipe. The Dam overflow pipe is approx 30feet down the back side of the Dam. After a couple of hours of trying everything, we finally got the Back of the dam pipe plugged enough to slow down the flow. Using a 8x8 Pressure treated beam and a Disc brake Rotor. Weird I know...I hopefully can send some pics. I need to find something to permenently sleeve and valve off the back of the dam drain Pipe to completely stop the water.

I then need help on how to plug the hole at the bottom of the lake, which is now 17 feet under water to the muck. I can not find where the old pipe broke off, because of the muck/leave have closed around it and it's pretty murky. The pond has two overflow concrete drainage ditches, so I am not worried about fixing the broken pipe, i just want to permanently plug it.

I don't have a ton of money, but I also can't afford to lose the entire pond and a ton of fish. Sorry for the long post, but I need help!

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about the troubles that brought you here.

If the pipe rusted off in the pond, then the only way to ensure that it doesn't rust thru where it goes through the dam is to plug the pipe on the pond side. Which might mean finding someone in the area that scuba dives. Just plugging the end on the other end of the dam might allow the pipe to rust thru and you might wash out the dam. Not good.

There are some services that offer hydraulic grouting. Give the local phone book a look. There was an article in the Pond Boss Magazine a short while back on overflow pipes and what to do about leaky ones. It might be a worthwile investment to call the PB office and order that back issue, and as long as you are on the phone with them, talk to them about becoming a subscriber.

I think this goes without saying but please be careful

There is a huge amount of force around that broken off pipe

That scuba diver better know what he is doing or he'll become the plug

Gallop, you're correct. I was thinking the cap on the other end of the pipe would still be in place when the grout was placed.

Thanks for the suggestions, I have found a friend at church that is a certified Dive instructor with equipment, he specializes in Cave diving. He said that he is very comfortable in completely dark surrounding. So, Once I install a more permenant valve or plug on the back side of the dam, He will dive down to see if we can sleeve the the broken end and then grout the whole length of the pipe. Or leave it and double sleeve the lake side pipe with PVC? I'll keep ya posted on the progress.
I really appreciate any additional help you might have?

If you can sleeve or somehow fix the pond end, and get the riser back above the water surface, I'd look into having a plumber that has a camera come out and look at the pipe coming thru the dam. If that rusts thru you could lose the whole pond. Capping the "past the dam end" leaves the water and pressure in the pipe.

I was sucessful in attaching a permanent PVC Sleeve with valves on the Back side of the Dam. This has bought me a little time to solve the lake side Stack pipe issue. I feel more comfortable at Scuba diving, knowing the flow pipe is secure.
I am hoping that there is enough pipe left on the lake side in the vertical position to sleeve the old Steel with a 6 inch PVC. If the new PVC Sleeve holds enough water back, I am hoping to pump or fill the entire drain pipe with bentonite. I just don't know if I can pour the bentonite down the new PVC pipe to displace any water that might still in the pipe or do I have to open the back side vale and try to get the water out first?
The lake has been there for over sixty years. There is no easy way to get to the back of the dam with a vehicle now. Trees everywhere. I imagine during contruction, you could have easily driven a large buldozer across the dam with plenty of room on either side. Now, your lucky to get a 4 wheeler back there because of the vegetation and trees.

Found information on how to plug the Pipe that broke off at the bottom of the lake. Lansas manufactures a expandable bypass or flow thru sleeve. They also make a wide variety of products to sleeve or plug any size pipe. http://www.lansas.com/price_sheet.inc.php
I also found out that Bentonite will not work in my application.
Keith Johnson <kjohnson@ponddampiping.com> has a wealth of information.

I know a few women that could use one of those. ;-)

After Scuba diving the Deep end of the lake this weekend. We found the old drain pipe broke off 13 feet below the surface. That measurement is from the current water level after we lost 4 ft of depth during the catastophe.
There is still 3 feet of pipe sticking out of the bottom of the muck. Our Plan is to measure from current water level down to the bottom and into the old pipe to determine how far the pipe goes until the elbow that turns the pipe under the Dam. Once we know what that total length, We are going to Sleeve over the old Pipe with 6"PVC and drive it down into the solid bottom as fas as we can before we hit the elbow. Then cut the PVC pipe off above the surface of the water to the original set water level. Basket screen and cap on top.
Then we will attach two braces back to the Dam bank to anchor the New pipe secure.
That's our plan, Any suggestions would be Awesome?

I'm not seeing the picture. How will the PVC seal and mate with the existing pipe? I'm assuming that there is a flow control valve in the old pipe and that it still works.

If you still plan on using the old pipe that is thru the dam, what's to guarantee that it won't rot out somewhere else? My thought is that if the whole pipe was installed at the same time, and one piece rotted off, then the rest of it can't be far behind.

If it is broken below the water line it has to be stopped up. How will you sleeve it?

Am I missing something?