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Hey everyone. First off, thanks in advance for your thoughts and insight. We have a lot to learn, but want some help before our problems get worse.

I reached out to a local water management company that can help with ponds. They said I was looking at a minimum charge of $350 to come out and talk and cost can go up to $3500 if water tests and more formal work is done. I don't even know if that is reasonable, so I guess my first question is...should I go that route?

Our pond has about 5 large Koi (2'), a school of small goldfish, and an unknown number of black catfish. The surface area is about an acre. I understand the depth is 3' - 5' before dropping down to something like 15' at the drain? That is unconfirmed though.

So, when we moved in over a month ago the pond had (and still has) lots of underwater grass and plants. The water seemed murky, but the surface was mostly clean, though lots of Lilly pads at one end.

However, since then and seemingly overnight, the pond has a good amount of algae on the surface. Seemingly happened over the course of a day or two, though I may have missed it happening.

I would prefer to use natural solutions, but will consider all options. If there are good posts or FAQs that I should review being a complete newbie, please share them.

Again...THANK YOU!

Here are some pictures...
At move in:

The rest are recent:




This end of the pond is still clear...For now...

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Welcome to the forum... Where in VA are you?

Sounds like you have a classic under managed older pond that has become very eutrophic. The biggest question is: What are your goals for this pond? Once those goals are determined, then a plan of action can be taken. Ponds are holes into which money is thrown. Particularly if you want them to meet your expectations... The cost you are being quoted, it's hard to say what is reasonable and what isn't. If you live near by, I may be able to come over and give you some on scene advice. I don't own a pond management company and won't charge you a penny. I can at least get you started with some ideas and what you can expect to pay to accomplish your goals.

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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Welcome to the forum... Where in VA are you?

Sounds like you have a classic under managed older pond that has become very eutrophic. The biggest question is: What are your goals for this pond? Once those goals are determined, then a plan of action can be taken. Ponds are holes into which money is thrown. Particularly if you want them to meet your expectations... The cost you are being quoted, it's hard to say what is reasonable and what isn't. If you live near by, I may be able to come over and give you some on scene advice. I don't own a pond management company and won't charge you a penny. I can at least get you started with some ideas and what you can expect to pay to accomplish your goals.


Thanks for the reply!

I'm down in the Richmond area, close to Ashland. Guessing you are a tad north of me...

Goals? Honestly...That is a great question. I've gone through a progression, neither of which are vetted and each without any real knowledge of what it would mean...

I started thinking about it as a fishing pond for me and the family, presumably bass. Then, when I saw the Koi in the pond and started to look into it I realized that maybe I could have a hobby raising/selling the Koi over time as they got large, etc. Now I'm sorta of at the point where I just want it to look and be an enjoyable part of our property while weighing the costs/maintenance aspects...Then it algae bloomed and now I just want that to go away. wink

So...I guess you could say I'm at least partially undecided, but if it made sense raising Koi (whether to sell or not) is probably the most attractive idea at this point...

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Any other thoughts anyone?

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I had someone come out and do an analysis. I'm posting this to validate whether this sounds reasonable or not. I already paid him for his time to come out and do the water tests/analysis to get to this point.


The water quality in your pond is typical for this region of Virginia. Your total alkalinity was low (17.1 ppm), which can be improved by adding agricultural lime to the pond at one to two tons per acre your pond is 0.4 acres. Southern States can provide this service with a spread truck. Liming will also improve the total hardness (34.2 ppm) in your pond as well as the pH (6.37). Dissolved oxygen (DO) readings in your pond were very low (3.10 ppm). This parameter can be improved by installing an aeration system in the pond. A quote on an aeration system designed by Vertex Water Features is as follows:

Air 1 system $1,592.50
10% discount - 159.25
Sub-total 1,433.25
Tax 71.66
Shipping 90.09
Installation 950.00
Grand Total $2,545.00

To further improve water quality, I recommend the application of two different natural aerobic bacteria, Complete and Digester. The cost for a year supply of these MicroLyfe products is as follows:

Complete $189.28
Digester 440.70
Sub-Total 629.98
10% discount - 63.00
Sub-Total 566.98
Tax 28.35
Shipping 61.67
Grand Total $657.00

At present, your pond is heavily infested with a combination of aquatic plants, including coontail, parrot feather, and water pennywort. A chemical application of Diquat and Cutrine Plus will knock these plants back, which you can do yourself or I can give you an estimate for me to treat the pond. Stocking grass carp is also recommended eight fish total for the size of your pond. You will need a permit from the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (VDGIF) to stock these fish. I would also recommend that the edge of the pond be dredged and a check dam be constructed above the walkway at the upper end of the pond. Finally, you should remove all of the trees on the front and back side of your dam as well as the emergency spillway.

I have attached to my e-mail to you some information on the aeration system and its design as well as information on the MicroLyfe products.

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Add the lime suggested. In the meantime read up on ponds here. The rest of the stuff can wait until you understand what you are being offered and decide if you think it is needed.

The green stuff looks like a plankton bloom. The lime will help with the plankton bloom daily swings and help clear the water. The other stuff like clearing the dam should be done.

Without specific goals it is best to learn the basics of water quality and pond biology and then you can decide.

CJ could help with an eyes on look.

Last edited by ewest; 09/09/12 07:50 PM.















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Ok, good to know about the lime. I will get that done as well as the tree clearing...

Does this mean you don't think I need the aeration system? What about the grass carp, bio-additives, etc?

As for the question about use...how much of a difference in maintenance if I want Koi vs bass? That is my plan now, but leaning towards Koi...

That said...I do want to choose an approach that is manageable and beneficial and as affordable as possible, though I can spend money on it...I just don't want to spend ALL my money on it. smile

Thanks,
Mike


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Dear Vaaccess:

Good morning and welcome to PB.

I can tell you, unequivocally, you are in the right place. I am just up the road from you, near Fredericksburg, and a year ago, I was in the exact same situation as you are now. I had just moved into a home with a fairly large, old, never managed BOW that was a total mess. I came here for help and the outpouring of support and advice was, and continues to be,overwhelming.

With that said, the greatest single piece of advice I could give you is to take CJ up on his offer. After my initial posting on PB, he reached out to me and offered his advice and assistance. He has been an invaluable resource and won't take any money from you even if you tried to cram it in his pockets. He is well known on this forum and there are reasons why he is oftentimes referred to as PB's Biologist Extraordinaire.

As a side note, you don't need Southern States' spreader truck. You only need a ton or two and you will probably be far better off doing this yourself. Up my way, Ag Lime (make sure you get Ag, not Hydrated lime) costs about $3 a bag. Get a pallet of it ( a little over a ton, about 50 bags) and either spread it with a shovel or just slit the bags and dump around the perimeter of your pond. It will dissolve out and raise your alkalinity slowly over a relative short period of time.

If you want to go this route, send me a PM and I will come down and help you.

Good luck and Warmest regards,
Paul

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The last time I ordered ag lime delivered (2 years ago), I got 3 tons for $100 and he backed up to 3 or 4 spots next to the pond. Seems alot less work than opening and dumping 50 bags???

Perhaps lime is cheaper in Mississippi or prices have gone up in the last 2 years.


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Originally Posted By: Vaaccess
Does this mean you don't think I need the aeration system? What about the grass carp, bio-additives, etc?

As for the question about use...how much of a difference in maintenance if I want Koi vs bass? That is my plan now, but leaning towards Koi...



Not at all on question 1 and 2. They could be helpful. But first you need to learn about how a pond works , then decide on what you want and look at the costs.

A Koi pond is nothing like a pond with LMB. Koi are carp and will constantly disturb the pond bottom (muddy pond)while a LMB is a predator and eats other fish (so you need forage). Entirely different concepts but both require water quality.
















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Originally Posted By: djstauder
The last time I ordered ag lime delivered (2 years ago), I got 3 tons for $100 and he backed up to 3 or 4 spots next to the pond. Seems alot less work than opening and dumping 50 bags???

Perhaps lime is cheaper in Mississippi or prices have gone up in the last 2 years.


Great to know...I need to give them a call!

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Originally Posted By: ewest
Originally Posted By: Vaaccess
Does this mean you don't think I need the aeration system? What about the grass carp, bio-additives, etc?

As for the question about use...how much of a difference in maintenance if I want Koi vs bass? That is my plan now, but leaning towards Koi...



Not at all on question 1 and 2. They could be helpful. But first you need to learn about how a pond works , then decide on what you want and look at the costs.

A Koi pond is nothing like a pond with LMB. Koi are carp and will constantly disturb the pond bottom (muddy pond)while a LMB is a predator and eats other fish (so you need forage). Entirely different concepts but both require water quality.


Let me ask a different question...Does a LMB setup take more or less effort than a Koi setup? Or, are they relatively similar? If one was easier or had better benefits versus the other, I think that would be compelling to know and would help with the decision.

Thanks again everyone!

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Trust me if the spreader truck can put it into the pond in several locations and the cost is not to high you will be glad you let them put in the lime. If not get them to dump bulk ag lime as close as possible and you can spread by shovel.
















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Originally Posted By: Vaaccess
Originally Posted By: djstauder
The last time I ordered ag lime delivered (2 years ago), I got 3 tons for $100 and he backed up to 3 or 4 spots next to the pond. Seems alot less work than opening and dumping 50 bags???

Perhaps lime is cheaper in Mississippi or prices have gone up in the last 2 years.


Great to know...I need to give them a call!


Last week here with a spreader truck it was $35 a ton.

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Originally Posted By: ewest
Trust me if the spreader truck can put it into the pond in several locations and the cost is not to high you will be glad you let them put in the lime. If not get them to dump bulk ag lime as close as possible and you can spread by shovel.


Roger. Given my stats...The quote said 1-2 tons per acre, at .44 acres should I do...what... .75 tons? 1 ton?

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With ag lime, adding too much won't be a big deal.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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VA I would go for just keeping some lmb/pan fish if the sole purpose of going with koi is for a side business............At the very least look into the state regulations to do so.I don't know about VA but NJ is a logistical nightmare.After you navigate the state red tape you then have the various viral and disease issues that the koi industry has been dealing with over the last few years.While I'm far from a expert on Koi a few farms I visited while in the process of getting my aquatic farmers license dealt with koi.They where pretty fanatical about keeping things bio secure in their operations.

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Originally Posted By: Robert-NJ
VA I would go for just keeping some lmb/pan fish if the sole purpose of going with koi is for a side business............At the very least look into the state regulations to do so.I don't know about VA but NJ is a logistical nightmare.After you navigate the state red tape you then have the various viral and disease issues that the koi industry has been dealing with over the last few years.While I'm far from a expert on Koi a few farms I visited while in the process of getting my aquatic farmers license dealt with koi.They where pretty fanatical about keeping things bio secure in their operations.


Interesting...hadn't considered that aspect at all! Being able to make some money was definitely a big reason to go with the Koi...

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Dear Va:

All advice here re: lime is sound. I really encourage you to call SS and would be interested in what they tell you.

I needed 28 tons. SS in Catlet wouldn't do it because of "liability" issues. The one in Caroline would do but they wanted a $150 delivery fee for a 35 mile haul. Plus, their lime has a fairly high concentration of Mg compared to what is available up our way. For only a ton though, I wouldn't worry about it.

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Vaaccess,
If your property has acidic soil (like southern Miss.) you could get the excess spread somewhere where you want to grow a veggie garden or orchard in the future.


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I paid more than that for three 50 pound bags.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 09/11/12 08:54 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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So......I think I've made a decision. I want to go with LMB and other fun fishing fish. smile

As noted previously, the pond currently has about 5 large Koi, a small school of Goldfish was seen at one point, but I haven't spotted them since the algae invasion, and a dozen or so (...?) flatheads plus numerous frogs and probably some yet unconfirmed snakes. smile Oh yeah...Saw a beaver in there the other day, which surprised me.

I'll be off to other board posts to understand LMB more as I'm sure there's plenty on here already. Though, I would welcome thoughts and insight in this thread, too!

Thanks to all for the help. I haven't had a chance to call for the Lime yet. frown Need to try and make that a priority tomorrow, but my job is kicking my butt lately.

Mike

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Lime applied. (Well, have 400 more pounds to drop in to get the full ton, doing that tomorrow. Who would have thought moving a ton of 40 pound bags could be so much fun??? Not!!!!!!

Also took care of the beaver problem, which is good. It had already put a nice hole in the bank (not dam side) and took down a couple of small trees...

Still debating aeration...

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.

Last edited by Vaaccess; 03/11/13 06:51 PM.
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You might consider a fountain. You have a beautiful setting and a fountain will add to your enjoyment of it, plus go a long way towards keeping you from chemical dependence. I spent $3000 on a large Flair fountain, about 15 yrs ago. Have never regretted it.

Half of that cost was in the submersible cable, and you won't need even half of that. You need a dock post to mount your electrical box and a trencher to get electric to it from your house, and it's not as costly as chemicals added over the life of your pond.

I pull my fountain out every winter because my pond freezes hard, but you won't have that problem in VA, will you? Such a beautiful country you live in.

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What's going on with the riser to the overflow pipe? Why are there plants coming out of it?


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Hi Pondpuppy.

I actually already have power down to the pond, so, would just need an underwater cable and fountain I guess.

I've always thought that fountains are a pain to maintain??? Don't they get clogged easily???

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Um....Water is flowing to the creek behind the pond without issue, but I haven't investigated or considered cleaning that overflow pipe out yet. Not sure what's going on with it...

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Scott, in Va. weeds grow any place that gets wet around the pond. I drained an old jon boat Sunday and it had weeds growing in parts of the worn out carpet. I attached the barrells on my docks with landscaping fabric. The weeds grow 2 ft. high in no time through the fabric. If only my garden grew half as good.


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You mention " black catfish". I would guess you will find those to be bullheads.
These are not desirable IMHO

I would inspect that riser pipe and make sure it is free of obstruction
The time to find out its blocked is now, not when you need it due to overflow

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Sorry Va, I've been busy sugaring.

I don't have to do anything to my fountain except pull it out every winter and put it back in in the summer. All I do is hose it off.
I have never had to do anything to it. Have had it for over 10 yrs. It is a Flair fountain. Made in USA. All stainless and the pump has never failed. Does not have to be drained or anything. We get down to minus 20 here and it's not stored in a heated barn, either.

My fountain is really well built and has loops welded on for anchoring. It doesn't really need an anchor-as heavy as the cable is, when it reaches the length, it stays put.

If you have a sloped bank at any place that you can put an old piece of carpet on, you should be able to pull the fountain right back up onto shore. You could just leave it, I suppose. I just didn't want to risk damage by ice heaving or crushing--I get 6 inches thick.

So I use a tractor and haul it up to my barn. The submersible cable is heavy. I haul that out with a rag in each hand, wiping and coiling as I go. I went with a pretty big pump, so the fountain is way too heavy to carry, but it floats in the water, so it isn't hard to manage in the water. You can tow it out to the middle with a rowboat or pedal boat or whatever. I keep the cable afloat on an inner tube and pay it out as I go or else you are trying to drag the cable through the mud and that is difficult.

Does that sound like too much work?

Do you get a solid freeze there?

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Originally Posted By: Vaaccess
Hi Pondpuppy.

I actually already have power down to the pond, so, would just need an underwater cable and fountain I guess.

I've always thought that fountains are a pain to maintain??? Don't they get clogged easily???



Hi Va, I just checked and they are still making fountains
www.flairfountains.com There is no way for it to get clogged so not sure what type of fountain you might have heard about. This has a pump enclosed in a stainless steel housing, perforated--so nothing can reach the intake. I've never had anything get sucked up against it even. I think you just have to look at one that is well designed.

I'll post a pic if I can figure that out.

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After waiting a year in our new home with the pond...I'VE MADE A DECISION! I want to convert the pond over to a fishing pond. Having an ornamental pond with Koi and Goldfish is of no real benefit. That certainly leaves many questions unanswered, but at least that major decision is behind me and I can start to move forward.

So far this year the algae bloom hasn't occurred like last year, but that could be a factor of all the rain we've had so far. That and the abundance of vegetation are things that appear to be a threat to the pond in my non-educated opinion.

I'm not interested in doing a fountain, but will consider a modest aeration system as that seems to be a consistent recommendation.

I also need to figure out the best way to get rid of all these goldfish! There are still hundreds in there. It's crazy, actually. If I populated bigger fish there's no question that they would have a nice food supply! smile

Below are some pictures from today to try and show a comparison versus last year earlier in the thread.

I don't have a lot of money to spend on this right now. However. If you guys tell me there's something I NEED to do to help for the future, then please suggest it. I have come close to buying some cutting pond rakes a couple of times, but I'm not sure if that will help or hurt.













Thanks

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Fountains are nice but you will get much more o2 into the water as well as decreased stratification/thermoclines using a standard aeration setup

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Hey everyone. My goodness time flies.

I have my permit for the grass carp and just waiting to get them dropped into the pond!

In looking back at the options given to me by the guy who I paid to come out, here's what I have left on the list, in no particular order (prices are estimates or a flat-out guess, the pond is 0.4AC surface area):

Aeration System ... $700 - $1500
Microlyfe Complete ... $190
Microlyfe Digester ... $441
Diquat ... $40 (1QT)
Cutrine Plus ... $40 (1 Gal) *Says I'm not supposed to use when Koi/Goldfish are present???*

I have not had a bad algae bloom this year like last year...Guessing that has to do with the rain and temperatures here in VA. I still want to convert this to LMB and Bluegill/crappie, etc.

I want to spend under $500 on the next step.

Given that:
1) What should I do next?
2) Are there cheap alternatives for the chemicals/aeration or does anyone know where I can get them for a good price?
3) Should I really use Cutrine Plus since I do have Koi/Goldfish? (guessing not, hoping I can skip it)
4) When should I start putting in other fish?

Thanks everyone.

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If you are in no immediate need of algae control, as it sounds like is the case, why worry about it. Instead put the money aside and put it towards a aeration system later, seems like that would be the best choice.

Have you stocked any fish yet (besides grass carp) or are there other fish present? Could begin putting money into a forage base, with an eye towards adding a predator that gets rid of the goldfish.

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The pond has about 4-5 large Koi, a few hundred/thousand gold fish, and what I believe are some black catfish...though I haven't seen any since almost a year ago. (I haven't looked TOO hard...)

I haven't picked up the grass carp yet, but was pondering asking if they had any LMB...maybe I should toss some in so they can start getting rid of the gold fish? Any clue as to how many I should get or what they should cost?

I agree with you on the chemicals. I would prefer to avoid, but wasn't sure if the 8 Grass Carp would be able to keep up or if I should start protecting against an algae bloom for next summer. I'll keep them off the list for now.

Agree that aeration seems like a smart choice at this point, but the price point is an inhibitor.

Thanks!
Mike

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Grass carp won't help with the algae.

I hear you on the aeration/diffuser setups. I don't have one yet, and saving up for one myself.

Your going to want to hang tight on adding LMB and wait for the pros opinions on stocking options. I would think if you stock some LMB, you will want to stock a forage fish at the same time with them. That way when your LMB have eaten all the goldfish they will have some other type of food. If the LMB get to big, it might be tough to get another type of forage fish established at that point.

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Since you want to switch over to a fishing pond, and you have a $500 budget, I'd look into renting a semi trash pump and pumping out the pond. Then buy Hydrated Lime and nuke the pond. That will get rid of the goldfish and black catfish (which I also assume are bullheads). That will allow you to start with a clean slate, and will be cheaper for you in the long run. You'll most likely be constantly battling the goldfish and black catfish if you don't.

If you stock predator fish in the pond to eat the goldfish, then stocking forage fish will be hard later due to the need to stock advanced sized forage fish. If you can stock HSB/HBG/RES, I'd go that route vs. LMB/BG in that .4 ac pond.


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As Esshup points out, the best results are most likely starting over. The pipe that you have a pic of in the beginning, it has plants in it. Did you ever find out if the pipe has problems like holes, rust, etc.? Or is the plant growing outside of the pipe and just hanging into the middle? I bring this up, because if you drain it you might have more things on the "to do list" than just restock. To fix pipes, dig spots deeper, etc can add up fast. Just be aware of what you might be getting into.

Another temporary option might be to stock something fun, or something to learn from. For example, you could throw 30 RBT in there in the fall. Let them knock back some of the small fish, and have a blast catching them in the spring. That option probably costs around 150.00 and lets you have some fun till you have more saved up.

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The idea of draining and starting over sounds incredibly daunting. Scary actually...Not saying you are wrong, but wow...And I'm sure it would uncover unknown things I would have to deal with. How long would it take for it to fill back up?

RBT = Rainbow Trout?

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Yes on rainbow trout. see this.

It isn't that daunting, but setting up the pump can be the hard part. Once that is good, it's easy and just takes time letting it run. And if it rains a lot, it may take longer. I would price out the pump, and the amount of lime you'd need to see if its in your budget.

Hard to say how long it would be to fill again. Mostly weather related, and that's to big of an uncertainty. What source normally fills the pond? It would be faster if it had a constant water flowing in, like a spring. But if that's the case, its harder to pump out.

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"Cutrine Plus ... $40 (1 Gal) *Says I'm not supposed to use when Koi/Goldfish are present???*"


Cutrine has copper in it which is bad for goldfish and trout. If I discovered bullheads in my pond I would nuke the thing from space wink

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Ok, so 8 Grass Carp have been added...Any clue how long it will take to see results??? I'm guessing a year, but wasn't sure what to really expect.



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Do you have a list of plants that are in your pond? If so, which ones do you expect the GC to control?


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The report I paid for said I had: Coontail, Parrot Feather, and Water Pennywort.

According to a document I just reviewed from the state, a heavy infestation can be controlled by 10 fish/acre. I got 8 GC and have .4 acres, as per the recommendation by the inspector who wrote the report for me.

But.....Now that I look at the state document, maybe the GC won't eat those plants??? Ugh. I guess they will eat some of them if they are hungry enough?

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They'll eat the coontail, and might start eating the others once the coontail is gone.


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Wow!!! Nearly 6 years later and Im finally ready for aeration! I have stocked with LMB, pan fish, feeder fish, and cat fish and they seem to be thriving. All but one koi have died, all the goldfish have been consumed, and I think Im down to one or two grass carp.

But its obvious that I still have a grass/muck/algae problem I think because the nutrient/bacteria flow isnt good enough.

I was looking on Amazon and found this setup: EasyPro PA6SWN Single Diffuser Shallow Pond Aeration Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TFX5A80/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_kXfZCb5AYSQ60

I am pondering just going with it or perhaps two of them so I could have two units in different parts of the pond. That said, Im curious what other opinions might be recommended. I do not want to spend a lot, so cant go crazy.

Thanks!!!
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That will probably do the trick for a .4 acre pond. I have used three pumps similar to (but different brand) that one to aerate a 3 acre pond. Three pumps each driving a double 9" round diffuser. I would say they were marginal/barely adequate but that was one 60 liter pump per acre and you would be at one pump per .4 acre. I think it would be adequate.

Be very cognizant of the depth limitations of linear diaphragm pumps (the kind you linked to). Their output drops very substantially with depth.

I have since switched to a rotary vane pump that drives all three double diffusers and I would estimate I'm getting three times the air to the diffusers. I ran the linear pumps for three years and still use one divided between my 1/10th acre sediment pond and 1/20th acre forage pond .

Some other links you might be interested in.
Presure vs depth calculations in aereation systems
Pondmaster AP100 This is a pump of a different brand with similar construction of the one you linked to. There are aeration pictures scattered in the links provided showing my setup. My pump upgrade to a Gast 1023

Aereation turn over rate discussion thread.

Last edited by snrub; 05/03/19 12:08 PM.

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Hey Mike.

I've got an EasyPro system in my pond and it works very well. My pond is smaller than yours surface wise but I'm holding an acre foot of water and get a complete turnover every 3 hours. The system I bought is rated to 20 feet with a single diffuser (actually two 12" tubular membrane diffusers on a single supply line). I purchased it from a pond supply company after talking to their rep. Going into my second season with no issues...knock on wood.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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That pump run time issue is still a big question mark with me, as is discussed in the link above. May need to revisit that thread. Since I put the new pump in, I don't need to run 24/7 for enough turnover (and I would prefer not to have the electricity bill for 24/7) but then the question looms, what hours to run.

Right now I am running from about noon to 6pm, which is enough turnover for this early season and I am actually trying to warm the water rather than cool it. But when hotter temps come I will increase the run time to probably 12 hours total. Then when it gets to July/August and heat waves will probably go to early morning till noon then again a few hours after 5pm to try and get adequate turnover rate but not excessively heat the water.

There is a good chance I am doing it all wrong. My idea is that by running the system during the daylight hours the phytoplankton are producing maximum O2 and I am moving low DO water up to the top for the plankton to do their job on and drawing highly oxygenated water to the depths as an O2 sink for the over night hours. This is against conventional wisdom and is probably wrong. But we will call it an experiment if I have a massive fish kill and everyone will learn from it.


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Have you checked your bottom temps after the pump shuts off? The closer the temp variance between top and bottom, the better idea you have about DO saturation at depth. It could be you can reduce run time even more if its equalizing temps faster. And with a good bloom to shade sunlight, it'll start cooling faster on the bottom and still have good DO.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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I have not, but that is a good idea.

I have learned that if I get what appears to be blue-green algae that running the pump more helps reduce it. When I was running the linear diaphragm pumps with not nearly as much turn over rate I had more problems with the bluegreen algae blooms. With this pump if I start to see it I increase the run time and that seems to help.

I relate it to what the sewage pond aeration pumps do. They really agitate those with rapid turnover so the nutrients are oxidized. That may be the wrong type of thinking, but it appears to me mixing the water more helps the water rid itself of at least some parts of excess nutrients.


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LOL...So apparently last year I was ALMOST ready to buy, but not quite. Up the street from us, a house took out all of the trees in their yard and put down grass. And, a new neighborhood is going in uphill from my intake stream. I think the fertilizer they used to get all that going caused major issues for me. My pond is nearly completely overgrown. It exploded with growth, granted looking back I could have done more to control it, but I never expected this to happen:
[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

So, I got a pond rake and dug in. I've put about 5 hours into pulling weeds at this point, and have made a dent, but man is it a lot of work. The Parrot Feather crap is absolutely insane, the root system is gnarly. Here are some shots after raking a bit:
[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

And here's one near the dock (note the opened area at the opposite side from the photo:
[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

So, it's been a good workout to this point, and I'm ready to do more. But, overall, I'm trying to weigh my options. I know I could still drain it and reboot, but, I have game fish in it now and some nice bass based on last-year's fishing fun.

I did add another 6 grass carp this year, the 8 that I put in early on I wasn't sure were still there and even if they are, they need help!

This is bringing me to a few questions at this point.

1) Aeration: Now that I'm taking all the time and effort to go through this plant removal process, I am getting myself ready to invest in an aeration system. The EasyPro PA6SWN is for 3/8 area and has one output, the PA8SWN is for 3/4 area and has two heads. While I think the 6 would technically be close enough with a rating of a 3/8 acre (vs my .44 acre pond), I don't want to skimp toooo much. Anyway, one thing I'm uncertain of, will the aeration help control the plant growth, or will it make it worse?

2) Should I try to remove all of these plants and all other plants, or not? Is there something I should try to promote? A few years ago we had bad algae blooms, so it's nice to not see that happening with the plants, but of course they are creating their own problems.

3) Also, I have an explosion of Alders growing up around the edge all the way around the pond. They are getting huge, some are 7'. Should I let them line the edge of the pond, or should I keep it more cleaned up like it was originally? They are easy-ish to remove, I'm not sure what the right balance is.

Last edited by Vaaccess; 06/21/20 10:06 PM.
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Is that silt?
You mentioned a new neighborhood upstream, it almost looks like construction silt has filled your pond.

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No, it's not silt...at least I haven't seen what I'd consider to be silt. The pond is just crazily overgrown with grass. The piles are all grass that I've pulled out. The Parrot stuff is rooted heavily, the other stuff seems to be muskgrass based on the identification site I just looked at. I can provide a better picture of that if needed.

I've also added some water hyacinth...but it's not as hard to get out if it gets out of control...And maybe I shouldn't even have that in there, either...?

The construction areas are far enough that I wouldn't get that much from them...I just thought maybe getting some of their fertilizer may have contributed to this plant explosion...

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I fill your pain. frown I have been raking out Bushy Pondweed for 4 days. I have pulled out several hundred pounds of it. About 10 times as much as you have pictured in the piles of your Parrot stuff. I have also added a contact herbicide where I see the plant growing. I am using a 14' boat and rake it and pull it into the boat, then unload the boat onto my pier, let it dry for a day and then load a wheel barrow to haul it to a future burn pile. And I have to bail out the boat after every boat load is unloaded. I would say around 5 gals of water per load. I am headed out this morning for another 4 to 6 loads pf BPW. I would love to find some laborers and put them to work. If I would have known this was going to happen, I would have killed the plants back in early spring. You don't know what you don't know. I also added GC and can not see where they put much of a dent in it. But I guess it would be worse without the GC. I have seen alot of life that is in the BPW. Insects, fish fry, mussels, along with some type of eggs that have been in the stuff.

Last edited by TGW1; 06/23/20 07:52 AM.

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@TGW1
At least I know I’m not alone!!!

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If you're going to rake this stuff, it's important to follow up with an herbicide as TGW said, to prevent it reemerging from the tiny fragments left behind. Raking seems like a losing battle but, at least it removes the nutrient load, which would become fertilizer for next years batch.

Pond dye would slow down growth of the deep stuff.

The nuclear option - Floridone, would work well to eliminate everything, for a year or more, but would be best done in early spring , when there is a lot less growth to battle.

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Pond dye. I almost forgot! I had half a bottle and threw that in, thanks for the reminder.

Any brand or source recommendations for dye?

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You will need to control the phragmites that are to the right of the dock or they will grow and completely surround the pond.


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Originally Posted by esshup
You will need to control the phragmites that are to the right of the dock or they will grow and completely surround the pond.

Thank you. I am making significant progress on the parrot feather and algae, but still have a lot to go. I will keep that under control, too. Good to know!

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If that is phrag I would attack with deadly poison as soon as possible. Could it be cattails? I would attack them too.

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