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What's going on with the riser to the overflow pipe? Why are there plants coming out of it?


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Hi Pondpuppy.

I actually already have power down to the pond, so, would just need an underwater cable and fountain I guess.

I've always thought that fountains are a pain to maintain??? Don't they get clogged easily???

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Um....Water is flowing to the creek behind the pond without issue, but I haven't investigated or considered cleaning that overflow pipe out yet. Not sure what's going on with it...

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Scott, in Va. weeds grow any place that gets wet around the pond. I drained an old jon boat Sunday and it had weeds growing in parts of the worn out carpet. I attached the barrells on my docks with landscaping fabric. The weeds grow 2 ft. high in no time through the fabric. If only my garden grew half as good.


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You mention " black catfish". I would guess you will find those to be bullheads.
These are not desirable IMHO

I would inspect that riser pipe and make sure it is free of obstruction
The time to find out its blocked is now, not when you need it due to overflow

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Sorry Va, I've been busy sugaring.

I don't have to do anything to my fountain except pull it out every winter and put it back in in the summer. All I do is hose it off.
I have never had to do anything to it. Have had it for over 10 yrs. It is a Flair fountain. Made in USA. All stainless and the pump has never failed. Does not have to be drained or anything. We get down to minus 20 here and it's not stored in a heated barn, either.

My fountain is really well built and has loops welded on for anchoring. It doesn't really need an anchor-as heavy as the cable is, when it reaches the length, it stays put.

If you have a sloped bank at any place that you can put an old piece of carpet on, you should be able to pull the fountain right back up onto shore. You could just leave it, I suppose. I just didn't want to risk damage by ice heaving or crushing--I get 6 inches thick.

So I use a tractor and haul it up to my barn. The submersible cable is heavy. I haul that out with a rag in each hand, wiping and coiling as I go. I went with a pretty big pump, so the fountain is way too heavy to carry, but it floats in the water, so it isn't hard to manage in the water. You can tow it out to the middle with a rowboat or pedal boat or whatever. I keep the cable afloat on an inner tube and pay it out as I go or else you are trying to drag the cable through the mud and that is difficult.

Does that sound like too much work?

Do you get a solid freeze there?

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Originally Posted By: Vaaccess
Hi Pondpuppy.

I actually already have power down to the pond, so, would just need an underwater cable and fountain I guess.

I've always thought that fountains are a pain to maintain??? Don't they get clogged easily???



Hi Va, I just checked and they are still making fountains
www.flairfountains.com There is no way for it to get clogged so not sure what type of fountain you might have heard about. This has a pump enclosed in a stainless steel housing, perforated--so nothing can reach the intake. I've never had anything get sucked up against it even. I think you just have to look at one that is well designed.

I'll post a pic if I can figure that out.

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After waiting a year in our new home with the pond...I'VE MADE A DECISION! I want to convert the pond over to a fishing pond. Having an ornamental pond with Koi and Goldfish is of no real benefit. That certainly leaves many questions unanswered, but at least that major decision is behind me and I can start to move forward.

So far this year the algae bloom hasn't occurred like last year, but that could be a factor of all the rain we've had so far. That and the abundance of vegetation are things that appear to be a threat to the pond in my non-educated opinion.

I'm not interested in doing a fountain, but will consider a modest aeration system as that seems to be a consistent recommendation.

I also need to figure out the best way to get rid of all these goldfish! There are still hundreds in there. It's crazy, actually. If I populated bigger fish there's no question that they would have a nice food supply! smile

Below are some pictures from today to try and show a comparison versus last year earlier in the thread.

I don't have a lot of money to spend on this right now. However. If you guys tell me there's something I NEED to do to help for the future, then please suggest it. I have come close to buying some cutting pond rakes a couple of times, but I'm not sure if that will help or hurt.













Thanks

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Fountains are nice but you will get much more o2 into the water as well as decreased stratification/thermoclines using a standard aeration setup

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Hey everyone. My goodness time flies.

I have my permit for the grass carp and just waiting to get them dropped into the pond!

In looking back at the options given to me by the guy who I paid to come out, here's what I have left on the list, in no particular order (prices are estimates or a flat-out guess, the pond is 0.4AC surface area):

Aeration System ... $700 - $1500
Microlyfe Complete ... $190
Microlyfe Digester ... $441
Diquat ... $40 (1QT)
Cutrine Plus ... $40 (1 Gal) *Says I'm not supposed to use when Koi/Goldfish are present???*

I have not had a bad algae bloom this year like last year...Guessing that has to do with the rain and temperatures here in VA. I still want to convert this to LMB and Bluegill/crappie, etc.

I want to spend under $500 on the next step.

Given that:
1) What should I do next?
2) Are there cheap alternatives for the chemicals/aeration or does anyone know where I can get them for a good price?
3) Should I really use Cutrine Plus since I do have Koi/Goldfish? (guessing not, hoping I can skip it)
4) When should I start putting in other fish?

Thanks everyone.

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If you are in no immediate need of algae control, as it sounds like is the case, why worry about it. Instead put the money aside and put it towards a aeration system later, seems like that would be the best choice.

Have you stocked any fish yet (besides grass carp) or are there other fish present? Could begin putting money into a forage base, with an eye towards adding a predator that gets rid of the goldfish.

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The pond has about 4-5 large Koi, a few hundred/thousand gold fish, and what I believe are some black catfish...though I haven't seen any since almost a year ago. (I haven't looked TOO hard...)

I haven't picked up the grass carp yet, but was pondering asking if they had any LMB...maybe I should toss some in so they can start getting rid of the gold fish? Any clue as to how many I should get or what they should cost?

I agree with you on the chemicals. I would prefer to avoid, but wasn't sure if the 8 Grass Carp would be able to keep up or if I should start protecting against an algae bloom for next summer. I'll keep them off the list for now.

Agree that aeration seems like a smart choice at this point, but the price point is an inhibitor.

Thanks!
Mike

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Grass carp won't help with the algae.

I hear you on the aeration/diffuser setups. I don't have one yet, and saving up for one myself.

Your going to want to hang tight on adding LMB and wait for the pros opinions on stocking options. I would think if you stock some LMB, you will want to stock a forage fish at the same time with them. That way when your LMB have eaten all the goldfish they will have some other type of food. If the LMB get to big, it might be tough to get another type of forage fish established at that point.

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Since you want to switch over to a fishing pond, and you have a $500 budget, I'd look into renting a semi trash pump and pumping out the pond. Then buy Hydrated Lime and nuke the pond. That will get rid of the goldfish and black catfish (which I also assume are bullheads). That will allow you to start with a clean slate, and will be cheaper for you in the long run. You'll most likely be constantly battling the goldfish and black catfish if you don't.

If you stock predator fish in the pond to eat the goldfish, then stocking forage fish will be hard later due to the need to stock advanced sized forage fish. If you can stock HSB/HBG/RES, I'd go that route vs. LMB/BG in that .4 ac pond.


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As Esshup points out, the best results are most likely starting over. The pipe that you have a pic of in the beginning, it has plants in it. Did you ever find out if the pipe has problems like holes, rust, etc.? Or is the plant growing outside of the pipe and just hanging into the middle? I bring this up, because if you drain it you might have more things on the "to do list" than just restock. To fix pipes, dig spots deeper, etc can add up fast. Just be aware of what you might be getting into.

Another temporary option might be to stock something fun, or something to learn from. For example, you could throw 30 RBT in there in the fall. Let them knock back some of the small fish, and have a blast catching them in the spring. That option probably costs around 150.00 and lets you have some fun till you have more saved up.

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The idea of draining and starting over sounds incredibly daunting. Scary actually...Not saying you are wrong, but wow...And I'm sure it would uncover unknown things I would have to deal with. How long would it take for it to fill back up?

RBT = Rainbow Trout?

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Yes on rainbow trout. see this.

It isn't that daunting, but setting up the pump can be the hard part. Once that is good, it's easy and just takes time letting it run. And if it rains a lot, it may take longer. I would price out the pump, and the amount of lime you'd need to see if its in your budget.

Hard to say how long it would be to fill again. Mostly weather related, and that's to big of an uncertainty. What source normally fills the pond? It would be faster if it had a constant water flowing in, like a spring. But if that's the case, its harder to pump out.

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"Cutrine Plus ... $40 (1 Gal) *Says I'm not supposed to use when Koi/Goldfish are present???*"


Cutrine has copper in it which is bad for goldfish and trout. If I discovered bullheads in my pond I would nuke the thing from space wink

Last edited by Bocomo; 08/30/13 11:32 AM.
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Ok, so 8 Grass Carp have been added...Any clue how long it will take to see results??? I'm guessing a year, but wasn't sure what to really expect.



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Do you have a list of plants that are in your pond? If so, which ones do you expect the GC to control?


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The report I paid for said I had: Coontail, Parrot Feather, and Water Pennywort.

According to a document I just reviewed from the state, a heavy infestation can be controlled by 10 fish/acre. I got 8 GC and have .4 acres, as per the recommendation by the inspector who wrote the report for me.

But.....Now that I look at the state document, maybe the GC won't eat those plants??? Ugh. I guess they will eat some of them if they are hungry enough?

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They'll eat the coontail, and might start eating the others once the coontail is gone.


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Wow!!! Nearly 6 years later and Iím finally ready for aeration! I have stocked with LMB, pan fish, feeder fish, and cat fish and they seem to be thriving. All but one koi have died, all the goldfish have been consumed, and I think Iím down to one or two grass carp.

But itís obvious that I still have a grass/muck/algae problem I think because the nutrient/bacteria flow isnít good enough.

I was looking on Amazon and found this setup: EasyPro PA6SWN Single Diffuser Shallow Pond Aeration Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TFX5A80/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_kXfZCb5AYSQ60

I am pondering just going with it or perhaps two of them so I could have two units in different parts of the pond. That said, Iím curious what other opinions might be recommended. I do not want to spend a lot, so canít go crazy.

Thanks!!!
Mike

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That will probably do the trick for a .4 acre pond. I have used three pumps similar to (but different brand) that one to aerate a 3 acre pond. Three pumps each driving a double 9" round diffuser. I would say they were marginal/barely adequate but that was one 60 liter pump per acre and you would be at one pump per .4 acre. I think it would be adequate.

Be very cognizant of the depth limitations of linear diaphragm pumps (the kind you linked to). Their output drops very substantially with depth.

I have since switched to a rotary vane pump that drives all three double diffusers and I would estimate I'm getting three times the air to the diffusers. I ran the linear pumps for three years and still use one divided between my 1/10th acre sediment pond and 1/20th acre forage pond .

Some other links you might be interested in.
Presure vs depth calculations in aereation systems
Pondmaster AP100 This is a pump of a different brand with similar construction of the one you linked to. There are aeration pictures scattered in the links provided showing my setup. My pump upgrade to a Gast 1023

Aereation turn over rate discussion thread.

Last edited by snrub; 05/03/19 12:08 PM.

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Hey Mike.

I've got an EasyPro system in my pond and it works very well. My pond is smaller than yours surface wise but I'm holding an acre foot of water and get a complete turnover every 3 hours. The system I bought is rated to 20 feet with a single diffuser (actually two 12" tubular membrane diffusers on a single supply line). I purchased it from a pond supply company after talking to their rep. Going into my second season with no issues...knock on wood.


.10 surface acre pond, 10.5 foot deep. SW LA. The epitome of a mutt pond. BG, LMB, GSF, RES, BH, Warmouth, Longear Sunfish, Gambusia,Mud Minnows, Crappie, and now shiners!!...I subscribe!!
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