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#303739 08/19/12 09:05 AM
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wolfie Offline OP
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Hello all! We just finished up Thursday on the construction of our .6 acre pond here in Northeastern PA. Average depth is around 10ft. Much thanks goes out to my uncle who built us this beautiful pond. He was wondering what I was going to stock it with? My plan all along was to stock channel cats until...he said the trouble with catfish in a smaller pond is that they will make the pond muddy. I would like to hear if this is possible and also, if possible, what other fish I should look at stocking/structure requirements. Any and all help is appreciated and thank you in advance.

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I have heard the same thing. A guy told me to line pond with crushed lime stone to prevent this. Don't know if this is true.


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RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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That sounds like it could get pricey...any others out there that have had any luck doing such?

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At reasonable numbers, CC shouldn't overly muddy your pond. If you are willing to feed and aerate, an excellent combination for smaller ponds is the HBG/CC/HSB combo. Do a forum search reference this combo, I think you'll be happy with the results.

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I agree with CJ's suggestion. If you won't be feeding, get a good forage base established with FHM and GSH, making sure to have cover in there for the GSH to reproduce on, and stock the pond at a lighter rate so the predator fish don't eat themselves out of house and home.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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That is exactly what I'm putting in my second chance pond. This time I will wait for leaks though.


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RES,HBG,YP,HSB,SMB,CC,and FHM. .seasonal trout.
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Thanks for all of the replies. I plan to set up some sort of a timed feeder, however we won't be able to aerate. One of the resaons for building the pond was for our geothermal system that is part of the new home.

What is a reasonable stocking rate for these species? And what time of year does one stock his pond?

Sorry for all of the questions, this is my first pond. I've been around ponds since I was knee high to a tumbleweed, but theres something about having one to call your own...that personal ownership that makes you want to do it right from the beginning. I never knew there was so much to learn about something I always thought was so simple. I am all ears gentlemen. And thanks again in advance.

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Not being able to aerate isn't the end of the world. Just limits the likelihood of growing larger HSB, but I still think you could grow 6-8 pound HSB. You also run a higher risk of summer/winter kill but if you manage the pond, the risk is lower.

If you are going to feed(think higher quality 40%+ protein feed, not trash feed), then you can bump your numbers a bit. I would look at stocking 3 pounds of FHM next spring. Start sourcing the HSB now, as they will be the trickiest fish to source. In the late summer or fall, stock 300 HBG, 20-25 HSB and up to 60 CC. The number of CC is based on how many CC you think you will remove per year for the table. You can also stock 1-2 pounds of GSH, but with pellet feeding they aren't needed.

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I would plan on feeding a high quality pellet. Just like my deer get the best throughout the year, so would my fish. I haven't ever shopped for fish food though to know who makes a good one/bad one.

Those seem like good stocking numbers. I appreciate all the info CJ. What is the best way to locate a reputable hatchery within reasonable driving distance? Is there a resource on the forum for locating such things?

You spoke of sourcing the HSB early? I don't think I have ever even seen one, let alone know where to buy some. What makes them so hard to come by?

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PA or the mid Atlantic region in general isn't blessed with a large number of cool/warm water fish hatcheries of higher quality with good selections. If you want, LMB/BG/CC/HBG they're fairly easy to source. More unusual varieties can be much tougher.

The first place that comes to mind is http://www.zettsfish.com/ Not exactly sure just how far you are from them, but I would say you should be within 2-3 hours which is a reasonable ride to bring home fish. They sometimes carry HSB and should be able to provide you with good HBG and CC. Just be careful, they are good people, they just have some far fetched ideas on fish management...

As far as fish feed, most guys on here are Aquamax made Purina fans. I have had good experience with it myself. It's not cheap and can be tough to source in certain locations. Silvercup is another good option. Just about any fish feed, that is 40%+ protein that derives its protein source from fish meal will work for you.

If you can keep water quality up, even without aeration you should be fine. Expect to grow 1 pound HBG, 5 pound HSB and 10 pound CC without issue. At some point you'll have to decide on what you want more, smaller but more plentiful fish or larger but less plentiful fish. The nice thing about your stocking combination is the numbers are easy to manage.

The only species that will reproduce are the HBG. However, they are hybrids and tend to be 90% male, meaning they don't make many babies. The HSB and CC should for the most part clean up the ones that hatch. You can even consider adding ONE and I mean only ONE LMB into your pond to help them with the controlling of HBG. When that LMB gets ove 14", remove it and add another 6"-8" LMB. You do not want reproducing LMB in a pond that small in the north. It defeats the whole purpose of this stocking guideline.

The HSB will definitely not reproduce as a 0.6 acre pond just doesn't have what they need. CC may, but it is HIGHLY unlikely. Do not place any structure in the pond. It is not needed and will actually make things worse. You want no cover for the little born in your pond HBG to take cover in so they can be readily preyed upon. At 0.6 acres, you don't need to "concentrate" fish with structure either.

You can replace the number of fish removed of each species per year. So if you follow my above mentioned stocking plan, replace the numbers that are taken out by you, by others to include wild predators like herons, otters, etc. So if you remove 12 HSB and nature takes another 6, you'd want to roughly add 18. Now ass your HSB and CC get larger, you will want to ease off the stocking to make more room for those now bigger fish. Otherwise you can get too much biomass in the pond and have issues. This is particularly true since you are not going to be aerating...

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Just my opinion, but I don't think a pond can be too small for catfish. They are very resilient, plus being fun to catch and eat.

I certainly agree with all that has been posted above with our good friends ESSHUP and CJBS.

Our property in northern West Virginia has several ponds, and I help manage other ponds in WV and VA.

As I've posted a number of times in other threads, I have a love/hate relationship with channel cats. They are very inexpensive to stock. They take food readily, and they grow really fast. As a food fish, they are great at all sizes, but especially from about 14 inches and up. Each several inches makes them more delicious and more versatile for dinner. A 20-inch catfish, or larger, can easily substitute for any number of great saltwater fish recipes.

In the middle, there is a point when they are still easy to catch, and a lot of fun. But, they aren't quite big enough for a good catfish dinner. The kids will love this era.

Channel catfish at all sizes will add turbidity to your water as they scour the bottom of your pond for food. That is not all bad for a number of reasons. It will cut down on weeds and algae in your pond. They will stir up the muck in the bottom of your pond, making it decay faster.

If you have an older pond, you can usually determine exactly where they are. Lots of small bubbles come to the surface when they are digging for forage.

My most recent favorite way to catch them is with big creek chubs (6-8 inches, strung with 6/0 circle hooks in the tail and lips). I catch the creek chubs using hook and line, with small redworms on a #8 hook a the end of a fly line leader.

To catch the catfish, I "freeline" the minnows at dusk and beyond. That is, I hook them through the lips, and through the tail. No bobbers. No weights. Nothing else. The hooked minnows get thrown out into 4-5 feet of water.

The same thing can be done with shrimp that has passed its "sell-by" date at the supermarket. I'll take a handful of these shrimp, cut them into small pieces, and throw them where I think the catfish will congregate at dark. Then I put in one to three lines with more shrimp, each with a #4 or #6 circle hook.

In either case, I almost always come out with what would be a trophy catfish to most people.

Fileted, skinned, and blackened, broiled, or fried -- life is good.

Put some in your pond -- just not too many.


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Sounds like a good plan. I might be tempted to add some RES in the mix also.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Do not add too many, I was sold way too many when I stocked my pond, and before I found this site. I have been trying to pull them out ever since and a couple of weeks ago had my line break (will probably never get that one out). I know I would probably save more money and heartache in the long run if I would just kill off the pond and start over, but what is done is done so I will make the best of it.

Just want to make sure you do not over stock yours.

And to let you know I was told you could stock 400 per acre.

I guess if I was feeding, aerating, and raising them to sell this would not be a bad idea, but for a pond that I just wanted some nice fishing and try to grow some larger pan fish this was not a good recommendation.

I am sure after this hot summer and drought conditions I could be starting over anyway due to a large fish kill that may take place anytime.

We will just have to see how fishing pans out this fall as the water temps cool down and the fish come back to the feeder.

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i have had lots of luck catching cc on 1/0 hook with a 1/3 live nightcrawer. i put a bucket feeder the week before with lil strike catfish food. i feed only 3 secounds twice a day. i put out 2 feeders to hedge my bets but one usually does the job. i then fish the other one next week. i only fish once a week for cats. my son and wife caught 49 last weekend and my son caught 39 yesterday. try this method it works in middle of day as well as later in day. big ones bite this as well my son caught 3 30 inch ones yesterday.maybe travis will post pictures for me as i am pretty lame with the computer scene.


Two ponds, 13 and 15 acres on the Mattaponi River.
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I checked out Zetts Fish Farm. They are about 3 hours away, not too bad of a drive. I will have to contact them to check on availability of the HSB. I was reading some of the literature on their website and it seems like they are pretty straightforward. If I went with a list I may be able to avoid being talked into something that I don't want/need.

What size fish would I be looking to stock? I see they may be available in many different sizes from fingerlings all the way up to 7"-12"

I was actually suprised to hear you say no structure. I had planned to build all kinds of structure for the young fish for cover.(being new to this and somewhat uninformed I was going to "shoot the moon" and had plans of an underwater amusement park for the little guys)

I thought about building some nests for the HBG/HSB and some dens for the CC also. If the HSB/CC will not spawn in a pond this size, then I probably won't go to through the trouble of building them.

catmandoo: We love eating catfish, which is why we were going to be depressed if they were going to muddy up the pond. We chase them after dark with 1/2oz egg weights, a 12" steel leader, and a great big ol' hunk of chickn liver(partially frozen/partially thawed cast easier) always on a barblees hook. I buy the big ones and just clip the barbs off of them.

mrhello:One could imagine at those stocking rates that you would have a muddied up mess of a pond crawling with cats. Tell me, did they ever reach sizeable lengths?

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I typically put about 25 CC in every year. Don't put in more than you can catch in a year.

If you buy from Zetts, examine the catfish carefully to make sure all of them are channel cats. They normally don't have HSB.

In the new pond I added RES and HBG. A friend is holding HSB for me.

Last edited by catmandoo; 08/21/12 08:10 AM.

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Some of the information on Zetts site seemed a little odd on what they say some species can do.

Plus I have never heard anyone else recommend stocking BH in your ponds.

I always have found BH flesh to be more of a yellow or dingy color rather than pink like salmon.

Anyone else have concerns with this.

Thanks

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As I said, Zett's has some wild far fetched ideas on fish and stocking recommendations.

North east PA is most likely too far north to stock RES and RES are illegal to stock in PA anyways. So... They are a no go.

If you talk to Zett's and they make other recommendations, please come back here and let us know what they are so you can make an informed decision.

Your initial stocking can be the smallest size of each species available. Or, if you want to speed up process and have fish ready for the table and fishing sooner, you can stock larger ones. As your pond matures and you begin to have larger CC and HSB in your pond, the need to stock larger fish will arise. Otherwise, many of your newly stocked fish will become fish food themselves, very expensive fish food!

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See this thread:

CC or BH?

And this thread:

Help with sunfish id?

As I've said elsewhere, I don't think they are dishonest.

Caveat Emptor.


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Has anyone ever heard of/used Susquehanna Aquacultures as a source for HSB? Also found another one, Keystone Aquacultures, looks like it could be a good source for stocking HBG/CC/HSB. How far in advance of my first stocking should I be sourcing my fish? A year for the HSB? Are they that tough to come by?

I am still a little confused as to why the CC/HSB would not spawn in my pond. If things were set up correctly could this be made possible? Maybe the better question is, do I want them spawning in my .6 acre pond?

CJ- You had mentioned earlier that I don't want structure in a pond my size? I thought structure was used for cover from predators, but you're saying it will be more of a "hot spot" for the HSB/CC to hang out and feed on the young fish? Maybe I need some clarification?

Pond has about 10-16" of water covering 3/4 of the bottom so far. Got a long way to go but "baby steps" right.

Again, thank you in advance.

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Originally Posted By: wolfie
Has anyone ever heard of/used Susquehanna Aquacultures as a source for HSB? Also found another one, Keystone Aquacultures, looks like it could be a good source for stocking HBG/CC/HSB. How far in advance of my first stocking should I be sourcing my fish? A year for the HSB? Are they that tough to come by?

I am still a little confused as to why the CC/HSB would not spawn in my pond. If things were set up correctly could this be made possible? Maybe the better question is, do I want them spawning in my .6 acre pond?

CJ- You had mentioned earlier that I don't want structure in a pond my size? I thought structure was used for cover from predators, but you're saying it will be more of a "hot spot" for the HSB/CC to hang out and feed on the young fish? Maybe I need some clarification?

Pond has about 10-16" of water covering 3/4 of the bottom so far. Got a long way to go but "baby steps" right.

Again, thank you in advance.



Wolfie,

The recommendations are meant for ”put and take” ponds as opposed to self sustaining ponds, such as LMB/BG ponds. Even in those ponds, the CC generally do not spawn. If they do, the LMB quickly eat the fry.

Being hybrids, the HSB generally will never reproduce. There is some evidence that they can, but it is rare.

HBG will have limited reproduction, but the offspring will be undesirable fish similar to green such fish. Thus, predator fish are required to eliminate the HBG offspring. HSB are a great choice as predators. You don't want places for the HBG offspring to hide, grow, and produce even more undesirable offspring.

Channel cats need cavities to spawn in. Old culverts, buckets, etc., provide those areas. If allowed to get too big -- probably bigger than 25-30 inches, some will dig caves in the sides of your pond. I had it happen when we first bought this property, when there were a lot of CC bigger than 36 inches. The CC will also act as predators.

Remember, each of these species will need to be replaced on a somewhat regular basis. But, especially with a feeding program, they will provide a great fishery by the second season and beyond.

I am fortunate to have one pond of each type.

Ken


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Even if the channel cats do muddy your pond up, does it matter?

You will be harvesting them all anyway and when you do the water will settle again.

I say go for it. I have seen them raised in 50 gallon drums so I don't think that your pond is too small.


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I have CC in a pond smaller than yours and they are doing fine. The problem is getting them out. I know many people on here have sure ways to do it so maybe they can help but I have not had much luck. Now does that mean I would not stock them again or you should not stock them "NO", just wanted to let you know of my experience and that is possible to have them in small waters.

How many were you wanting to stock and how big were you wanting them to get before harvest. Mine are at a nice size to eat in my opinion, I just have to get them out. I was going to try to figure out some sort of net or trapping system but it will be pretty cold here soon and since am not to procrastinate I am sure it will not get down before winter, so I will have to wait one more year.

Let us know what you plan or decide to do.


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