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#285089 03/22/12 06:48 AM
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Hello

I am new to Pond Boss and I must say it is a great site.

We purchased a home last fall that has a 1.25 acre pond. The pond has an aeration system already install that has (3) seperate diffusers.

My questions are: At what times of the year should we be running the system? And is it ok to cycle the system on and off throughout the day or should it run 24/7?

The previous owners just told me to turn it on when the ambient temperature gets over 80 degrees and turn it off after it falls below 80 degrees.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Luke

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Get a timer run it for 12hrs over night.. Start with 1 hr first day 2 next 4 next 8 next 12 next.. When water surface temps reach 60


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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After a fish kill a few years ago, we turn aeration system on in the spring and off late fall.
Electricity is cheaper than replacing trophy fish....



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
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Hey Soggy there is a lot of talk on this site about 12 v.s. 24 and some even less than that. What is right? Well you can't go wrong running your air 24/7 once you run the proper start up. Is 12 hours a day at night only wrong? No I don't think so. Like George said though once you get them fish at bigger size in your pond and they start sucking up more D.O. do you want to take the chance on them going belly up over an extra 15 or 20 bucks a month on your bill? That's up to you of course! I will be running mine a min or 12 hours this year and may start going to 24/7. As old as my pond is and as muc silt I have in it I am learning more that I should be running mine 24/7. Once again as mister Bill Cody says. (It all depends). smile


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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I thought there was drawbacks to running 24/7 Wouldn't it kinda superheat your pond on blistering hot days just like it would supercool if your run in the winter? I thought I read that here somewhere.. 12/7/night has worked well for my pond it seems..


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

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How long to run it all depends on the system, now much water it moves, and what the goals are. Diffuser placement is critical for us northern guys.

I consider there to be 2 aeration seasons, winter and summer. For me, winter starts when water temps at the surface hit the low 40's. I switch from the diffusers placed in the deepest part of the pond to diffusers placed from 1/3 to 1/2 the total pond depth. ( 20' deep pond would have winter diffusers placed between 7' to 10' deep) I like to place the diffuser so that it keeps the pond thawed within 2' of shore or less. That way if someone/something gets in the water, they/it won't have to try and crawl up on top of the ice to get out. You don't want to run the diffusers in the deepest part of the pond during the winter because the fish won't have a "warm water" refuge to go to.

Summer starts when the water temps are in the high 40's or warmer. If the water is in the 50's or higher, depending on the depth of the pond, I'll switch over the deepest diffusers in start-up mode when I turn off the shallow diffusers.

I normally run the diffusers 24/7.

If you add bacteria to the pond bottom to try and reduce muck build-up, I'd run them 24/7 for sure.

Not all ponds are the same, and there isn't (aren't?) any hard and fast rules. But, I'd rather err on the side of having too much O2 vs. too little..........


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Be sure to change out compressor filters regularly and oil your cooling fan (if needed and so equipped). I found out the hard way that AWL was required. Bleep.

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Thank you for all the great information. I think I will start out with 12 hours per night and see how it goes.

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Originally Posted By: esshup
How long to run it all depends on the system, now much water it moves, and what the goals are. Diffuser placement is critical for us northern guys.

I consider there to be 2 aeration seasons, winter and summer. For me, winter starts when water temps at the surface hit the low 40's. I switch from the diffusers placed in the deepest part of the pond to diffusers placed from 1/3 to 1/2 the total pond depth. ( 20' deep pond would have winter diffusers placed between 7' to 10' deep) I like to place the diffuser so that it keeps the pond thawed within 2' of shore or less. That way if someone/something gets in the water, they/it won't have to try and crawl up on top of the ice to get out. You don't want to run the diffusers in the deepest part of the pond during the winter because the fish won't have a "warm water" refuge to go to.

Summer starts when the water temps are in the high 40's or warmer. If the water is in the 50's or higher, depending on the depth of the pond, I'll switch over the deepest diffusers in start-up mode when I turn off the shallow diffusers.

I normally run the diffusers 24/7.

If you add bacteria to the pond bottom to try and reduce muck build-up, I'd run them 24/7 for sure.

Not all ponds are the same, and there isn't (aren't?) any hard and fast rules. But, I'd rather err on the side of having too much O2 vs. too little..........


Perfect answer.

Location may be a factor...setup aeration in a corner somewhere and mix things up...great threads here on areation 101. Taught me alot about the levels of O2 in different depths of water...check em out.

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Normally northern ponds don't need aerated as long as southern ponds, but there are lots of exceptions to that generalization. Southern ponds usually have warmer water for longer periods compared to northern ponds. Warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen thus in these warmer ponds the the lower saturated DO is lost and consumed quicker and oxygen shortages can happen relatively quick especially on extended cloudy days. Aeration helps increase the DO at all mixing depths. Southern ponds tend to benefit more with 24/7 aeration compared to northern ponds - many exceptions occur.

Esshup's comments are wise, heed them. Sizing of an aerator system is very important. Oversizing a pond aerator is easier and more effective in smaller ponds, thus shorter run times are possible. That is one key factor in allowing shorter run times. Oversizing rarely occurs in larger ponds 1.5 acre+ thus those aerators need to run longer to get the WHOLE pond of several million gallons turned over in one day. Aerator mixing volume and pond volume are important factors in getting a proper sized aerator. It is not just about putting some bubbles in the pond. In larger ponds or small ponds with under sized aerators, often one complete pond turnover per day is not achieved nor possible, thus the aerator needs to run 24/7 to keep the mixing as much as possible. In a small 1/3 acre pond with a high air flow aerator and efficient diffuser the pond of 500,000 gallons can be turned over in 3-5hs thus a short run each day time is possible. Not so true in a large deep pond or small lake.

Water clarity also affects how long the aerator needs to run. The cloudier or murkier the water the more the aerator needs to run each day because less sunlight is penetrating the water and less dissolved oxygen is being produced by suspended planktonic algae in the depths below sunlight penetration. Mixing spreads out, blends, and distributes that dissolved oxygen to the darker, deeper waters. Ponds need dissolved oxygen in the deep waters to keep everything them them healthy -oxygenated. Without a steady supply of oxygen at the pond bottom all bottom and deep water critters start dying quickly even in summer unless a turnover from aeration brings them fresh oxygen.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/03/12 07:22 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Normally northern ponds don't need aerated as long as southern ponds, but there are lots of exceptions to that generalization. Southern ponds usually have warmer water for longer periods compared to northern ponds. Warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen thus in these warmer ponds the the lower saturated DO is lost and consumed quicker and oxygen shortages can happen relatively quick especially on extended cloudy days. Aeration helps increase the DO at all mixing depths. Southern ponds tend to benefit more with 24/7 aeration compared to northern ponds - many exceptions occur.

Esshup's comments are wise, heed them. Sizing of an aerator system is very important. Oversizing a pond aerator is easier and more effective in smaller ponds, thus shorter run times are possible. That is one key factor in allowing shorter run times. Oversizing rarely occurs in larger ponds 1.5 acre+ thus those aerators need to run longer to get the WHOLE pond of several million gallons turned over in one day. Aerator mixing volume and pond volume are important factors in getting a proper sized aerator. It is not just about putting some bubbles in the pond. In larger ponds or small ponds with under sized aerators, often one complete pond turnover per day is not achieved nor possible, thus the aerator needs to run 24/7 to keep the mixing as much as possible. In a small 1/3 acre pond with a high air flow aerator and efficient diffuser the pond of 500,000 gallons can be turned over in 3-5hs thus a short run each day time is possible. Not so true in a large deep pond or small lake.

Water clarity also affects how long the aerator needs to run. The cloudier or murkier the water the more the aerator needs to run each day because less sunlight is penetrating the water and less dissolved oxygen is being produced by suspended planktonic algae in the depths below sunlight penetration. Mixing spreads out, blends, and distributes that dissolved oxygen to the darker, deeper waters. Ponds need dissolved oxygen in the deep waters to keep everything them them healthy -oxygenated. Without a steady supply of oxygen at the pond bottom all bottom and deep water critters start dying quickly even in summer unless a turnover from aeration brings them fresh oxygen.


Cody great info right there!! I have one quick question though. Say your pond is 1 acre and 12 feet deep but you only have enough line to get your fuser in say 8 foot of water? Is that ok and will the pond still turnover ok given your pond is pretty much round / triangular? Or does that fuser absolutley have to be at 12 feet?

thanks,


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
RC51 #286713 04/04/12 11:26 AM
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RC51 asks: ""Say your pond is 1 acre and 12 feet deep but you only have enough line to get your fuser in say 8 foot of water? Is that ok and will the pond still turnover ok given your pond is pretty much round / triangular? Or does that diffuser absolutley have to be at 12 feet?"" That is a good question. Other pros may want to reply to this. Vertex has conducted aeration studies that may shed light on this topic. Here are my opinions and experiences. As usual it will depend on several things. 1. size of compressor, style and number of diffusers. 2. Time in spring-summer when the system is started up. 3. Exposure to wind. 4. Water clarity.

1. The larger the compressor and more diffusers (strength) the more likely the boil/s will be able to mix the entire water column.
2. My experience is the earlier in the season the aerator is started the more likely the depths greater than 8ft will be mixed. When the system is started when the water is warm and the pond is stratified the mixing basically stops at 8 ft diffuser depth where the mixing current then travels laterally toward the diffuser and then up into the upwelling boil. When the aerator is started when water temps are cool before statification (usu. 48-52F) the mixing currents tend to travel to the deeper 12ft bottom then circulate up into the diffuser upwelling boil. I think this occurs due primarily to the uniform density of the water column and resistance to mixing is nill. If the mixing currents are low from a 'weak' boil the mixing currents are less likely to move into the water deeper than 8ft. This can vary from pond depending on size, depth, and other factors that resist to mixing.

3. Wind exposure and wave action has minor affect but I think it will help distribute the boil toward shorelines and help increase the strength of the lateral mixing current hopefully allowing it to move deeper. Stronger wind action will naturally create a thicker upper mixing zone (epilimnion). A deeper epilimnion should make it easier for it to mix deeper with help from the diffuser.

4. Increased water clarity allows light to penetrate deeper and oxygen to be produced deeper. When the deeper water is mixed it will have more DO in it. Thus in clearer water MORE water will have more and higher DO in it. Less water can or needs to be mixed to the bottom to get adequate DO in the unstrtified layer and across the bottom.

Bottom line - it would be most dependable to move the diffuser deeper and not rely on factors of "it depends".

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/04/12 07:05 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
RC51 asks: ""Say your pond is 1 acre and 12 feet deep but you only have enough line to get your fuser in say 8 foot of water? Is that ok and will the pond still turnover ok given your pond is pretty much round / triangular? Or does that diffuser absolutley have to be at 12 feet?"" That is a good question. Other pros may want to reply to this. Vertex has conducted aeration studies that may shed light on this topic. Here are my opinions and experiences. As usual it will depend on several things. 1. size of compressor, style and number of diffusers. 2. Time in spring-summer when the system is started up. 3. Exposure to wind. 4. Water clarity.

1. The larger the compressor and more diffusers (strength) the more likely the boil/s will be able to mix the entire water column.
2. My experience is the earlier in the season the aerator is started the more likely the depths greater than 8ft will be mixed. When the system is started when the water is warm and the pond is stratified the mixing basically stops at 8 ft diffuser depth where the mixing current then travels laterally toward the diffuser and then up into the upwelling boil. When the aerator is started when water temps are cool before statification (usu. 48-52F) the mixing currents tend to travel to the deeper 12ft bottom then circulate up into the diffuser upwelling boil. I think this occurs due primarily to the uniform density of the water column and resistance to mixing is nill. If the mixing currents are low from a 'weak' boil the mixing currents are less likely to move into the water deeper than 8ft. This can vary from pond depending on size, depth, and other factors that resist to mixing.

3. Wind exposure and wave action has minor affect but I think it will help distribute the boil toward shorelines and help increase the strength of the lateral mixing current hopefully allowing it to move deeper. Stronger wind action will naturally create a thicker upper mixing zone (epilimnion). A deeper epilimnion should make it easier for it to mix deeper with help from the diffuser.

4. Increased water clarity allows light to penetrate deeper and oxygen to be produced deeper. When the deeper water is mixed it will have more DO in it.

Bottom line - it would be most dependable to move the diffuser deeper and not rely on factors of "it depends".


Bill thanks a bunch for that answer! That's great!! I am finding out that at first glance air and bubbles seem fairly easy a no brainer if you will but that is far from it!! There is a LOT to know and learn about air and how it works in a pond and all the different situations there in. Easy in some ways yes, very complex in others for sure!!

Thanks for your response! RC

Last edited by RC51; 04/04/12 02:35 PM.

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Here is a question that relates to this thread. I have a 1 acre pond, max depth of 12' when full, and have installed a Vertex Coactive air station at a depth of @10' and adjacent to the deepest location. I have a thermometer with a 25' long cable that I use to check the water temperature at various depths. In late May, I had not yet turned on the aerator and when I checked water temps, I had a 63 at bottom and 81 at surface.

I turned on the aerator and let it run for a couple of days, then turned it off and checked the water temperatures. Bottom temp was 71 and top was near 80. By the way, visibility according to a homemade seschi disk is @ 18", not muddy but stained.

Since a DO meter is rather expensive, I am wondering what effect these changes in temps have on the DO throughout the pond. Also, in keeping with the other posts on this thread, how often does the aerator need to run since I have effectively eliminated the thermocline in just a few short days.

Also, the location is near Tulsa, Oklahoma so this would be considered a southern pond.

Appreciate any suggestions.

Last edited by Dick Faurot; 06/07/12 02:21 PM.

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IMO you want to run the aerator enough so the difference between bottom and top temperature is 5F or less. When temp is 5For less there is usually adequate DO on the bottom. Since your pond has only 18" secchi disk readings the DO will be consumed rather rapidly at the bottom and in all the water deeper than 4ft, thus mixing to achieve the 5F variation will help maintain higher DO in the deep water and at the bottom. Once you achieve the 5F temp range it should not take a lot of mixing per day to maintain it; possibly 10-16 hrs/day?. Experiment and report back.

Were you measuring the temperature at the deepest location or at the adjacent depth of the diffuser? Is the deepest water in the 'belly' the same temp as that at the diffuser depth?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/07/12 08:19 PM.

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When I initially measured the temperature, it was at various depths on the pond bottom, generally in the 8-12' range and the bottom temperature was pretty uniform. Will get back with you regarding the current temp in the deepest water and that at diffuser depth. The horizontal difference between the two is only about 20-30'.


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Sometimes when starting a bottom diffuser not in the deepest zone after the water is warm, the currents only will go down to the depth of the diffuser then move upward. Water density controls this. It takes quite a bit of aerator run time to get the warmer water to gradually 'work its way' into the deepest section. It will be interesting to hear the results of your testing. Two ft of depth difference may not be difficult for the currents to work their way into the bottom water.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/08/12 08:52 AM.

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Bill - turned the diffuser on around sunset and let it run all night. Just got off the water and could not find a temperature difference between top and bottom of more than 2 degrees. Figure I will leave if off for awhile and check it regularly to see how quickly that changes.

By the way, have had several relatively cool mornings for us the last few days, morning low of 57 this morning for example, so the surface water temp had dropped to 76. I am sure it will be back around 80 this afternoon with full sun but that would still be within the 5 degree range you recommend.

Appreciate the advice. Will let you know how the temperature changes in the days ahead.

Dick


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It will be interesting to see how rapidly the water cools in the bottom when the top is high 70's or low 80's.


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Bill - a more general question regarding one of your above comments. You stated that with a water clarity of @18", the DO below 4 feet would rapidly be consumed. Is there a general rule of thumb for water clarity depth and oxygen generation. For example, from your comment above, it would seem that approximately 3 times the water clarity would yield the depth to which oxygen is being generated by the phytoplankton.

One of the reasons I am asking that question is a friend of mine has a 6 acre pond with good depth and plenty of shallow water but it remains muddy year round and visibilities rarely are even as good as 1 foot. Despite the muddy water, it is one of the best bass fishing ponds I know of. Just wondering about the DO at various depths in a situation like that. Have often caught some nice bass around a rock/wood pile which is surrounded by water of 8-15'....sometimes in deeper water and sometimes in the shallows around the rocks.

Just wondering.


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At what water depth have the LMB been caught? (what depth were they holding at?)


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Have caught them at a variety of depths. Last time I was there was in early Spring and they were mostly up in the shallows...apparently pre spawn. At other times of the year, have caught them at various depths around the rock/wood pile I described as well as elsewhere.


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The reason why I was asking about the depth (hoping for specific depths) that you caught LMB at is they won't hang out in water that doesn't have enough Dissolved O2 in it.


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That's what I figured, which is why I was trying to get a rough idea of how deep usable sunlight can penetrate to generate the oxygen that they would need given the turbidity of the water column. That way I could eliminate a lot of the water and concentrate my efforts on structure in usable water depths.


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Two of the main features for depth where DO is present are 1. water clarity and 2 wind mixing depth due to fetch of the water body. 1. Generally DO is produced by phytoplakton in the euphotic zone which is often 2 times the secchi depth This can vary depending on several things. 2. Strong or high wave action will mix the oxygenated waters into the depths depending on wave height. The greater the fetch and stronger the wind the greater the wave height and deeper the mixing. Fetch- the distance the wind blows across a body of water.
In most lakes and ponds that are eutrophic, the thermocline is the depth where DO begins rapid decrease to concentrations that eliminate fish.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 06/09/12 09:19 PM.

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