Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Grass Carp Removal ?

I have some pretty large grass carp that are really elusive. Only occasional sightings. How do you remove them? A friend in the pond consultant business is telling me I need some small ones to help with the algae and weed problems. I'm reluctant to add any because first I'm really not sure they are effective and two I don't know how to rid the pond of them after they get large. Thoughts?

Here is an old thread with some good info: Catching Grass Carp

This one was caught on a ball of gummy white bread over a circle hook, during feeding time:

This might be a good topic to list items that you have used to catch grass carp. I havwe read where cherry tomatoes work for grass carp / amur. It takes a good angler to land a fish that size without it breaking the line or the pole. Many fish that size break the line and then they become even more elusive. Good job Ken.

If you bow fish at all that may be an option if you can get them close enough. I plan to try that later this summer.

I caught this one on a AQMX 600 pellet fly.
Be careful when you "leader" them - they will fight as hard on the bank as in the water and break a 12lb leader.
Don't release them because as they won't bite again...
Great sport fish on the fly.

I'm not familiar with fish in your pond but I'd like to guess that they are some kind of predators (bass, perch etc), aren't they?
In such case at first you should create a feeding spot and try to use only vegetables as food - for example, wheat, corn, bread or something similar. Predators usually will avoid it.

After some time you may try using a rod with the same bait as you used for feeding.

The main idea is to avoid all other fish in the pond.

EDIT: you may try to drop some weeds in the pond and stay still for some time. In cases when grass carps aren't overfed they might eat them and you will witness that. This will help you find out their favorite places. By the way, after watching you can try that weed as a bait - I've heard that Japanese guys use various weeds on hook with good success.

The fish above is a Grass Carp. It is not a predator like a bass. It only eats weeds. All types if hungry enough, but that's it.

Just FYI
The main idea is to avoid all other fish in the pond

I have always heard that once grass carp get a certain size "they should be removed because their consumption of plants slows down". Why remove them? What are they hurting? Even if they just eat a small percent of what they did when they were young, they are still eating that small percent.

Bing, it's all about biomass and carrying capacity. If you remove a large one that isn't eating much (think about how much elderly people eat compared to a teenager), you can add more little ones, and more plants will be consumed.

I've caught them on Stubby Steves:
http://www.stubbysteve.com/

I have only ever caught 1 from using bait and it was with some catfish dough and I doubt that is a effective way of catching them. Now if you don't care what happens to them you can always snag them. I have caught tons of them by snagging them when I was a kid. I still have a snagging treble hook from when I was little and it works awesome. You might be able to find one but it might be hard cause that's sorta frowned upon and maybe illegal. Or take the biggest treble you can find and a heavy sinker and rig it like a drop shot. I use to do that before I had a snagging treble. Normal crank bait hooks probably wont cut it since that have giant scales and they are pretty thick.

Shotgun

essup: I have always heard that explanation, but when I google "Biomass" I can't relate what I read to a fish taking up some physical space in the water. If you put "fresh" grass carp in with the older ones it seems to me you will get more vegetation eaten than with just the new ones. A very well respected pond boss I spent some time with lately gave me this as a concept. Unless your water is "crowded" I can't see that the old ones cause any harm. The highly respected guy I was talking to sometimes lurks here. Perhaps he will chime in

Bing, me too! It's not only physical space, it's O2 consumed, poop produced, etc. Here's info taken from Americansportfish.com. It sums up what I was going to say better.

"The amount of vegetation they will consume depends upon several environmental factors such as water temperature, water chemistry, and the kinds of plants available. Consumption rates also vary with fish size. For example, until they weigh about 6 pounds, grass carp may eat 100 per cent of their body weight per day in vegetation. Larger grass carp consumes less in relative terms but do consume larger absolute quantities. Fish weighing up to about 13 pounds will eat 75 per cent of their body weight each day and above 13 pounds they slow down to about 25 per cent of their body weight each day."

The way that I reason, I'd rather have a 6# fish eating 6# of weeds and using O2 for 6# of fish flesh than a 24# fish eating 6# of weeds per day and using up enough O2 for 24# of fish. You get the idea.

Going by those numbers above, once they reach 15# start replacing them for the most "bang for the buck".

The fish above is a Grass Carp. It is not a predator like a bass. It only eats weeds. All types if hungry enough, but that's it.
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You have misundesrtood me. I'm familiar with grass carp (there are some in my ponds).
The main idea of my post was that if GC is the only one non-predatory fish in the pond then it shouldn't be that hard to catch. Use bait that isn't suitable for predators.

This is based on the average Pond Boss user that keeps mostly predator fish in the pond - bass, perch, catfish etc.

Grundulis, I know that it shouldn't be that hard to catch a big grass carp. But it certainly turns out to be hard.

Everything depends on size of that pond and fish species inside it.
For example, I didn't manage to catch my grass carp from ~0,1 acre pond...

In my case there was one big trouble though - small white fish (I mean close carp relatives). How can you get that one carp if small ones fast eat whatever I put on the hook?

Oh ok your right I did mis-understand what you said. Sorry about that. No worries mate!

I say this as joke.....

you could put a small charge of C4 on the grass carp you stock, then when they have outgrown your welcome, say goodbye and push a button.


but I imagine that bowfishing would be your best bet....its a lot of fun too

I love this recommendation! The ONLY drawback might be having a small window of opportunity to perform GC removal depending on state law regulating discharging of fireworks. For us, it's July 2-5 only.

Hmmmmmmmmmm............... I remember a time..........

That was in that time frame. I'm sure of it.

Doctor Duck, if I were you, I would not add any additional GC. I overstocked my pond with them (180 in 6 acres of water) and as a result they have denuded the pond of vegetation. The nutrients which would otherwise go into healthy vegetation are instead taken up by phytoplankton. That means that each summer through fall the lake turns an ugly, murky, brownish-green. What was once inviting now looks icky.

The youngest of the GC is 23 years old! They seem to never die. Last week the water was exceptionally clear (it won't last) and I was able to count 16 of them in one small area. I've tried shooting them, I've tried catching them with every vegetable imaginable (cherry tomatoes included), and I've even put a bounty of $25 each on their heads for the neighbors to try their luck. As has been noted above though, they are extremely elusive. In the past 5 years we've only been able to confirm 3 killed. We may have killed a couple of more but they tend to sink fast when shot.

Do not believe the hypothesis that when they get old they stop eating! I only wish it were true! Here is a photo shot last week showing a fence we constructed to protect a tiny cove in the hope of reestablishing plants. The GC cannot get into the area on the left. The area on the right where the GC lurk looks OK now, but it's only May. Soon the water will turn ugly.

I couldn't agree more. I have two monsters left in my pond. I love them. The kids and guests love them. They are acrobatic, and at more than 3-foot long, they really make a splash when they jettison out of the water, at about a 45-dgree angle, for a pellet at feeding time. I can't tell the two of them apart. We just refer to them them both SSN-688 (in reference to the Los Angeles class nuclear submarines).

They might eat a few pellets, but that is OK. They don't eat a lot of weeds anymore, but that is good. I need a little more cover in my pond.

I just wouldn't want a whole bunch of them in the pond.

We've also got our friend with who is bright orange, with black tiger stripes. We refer to this critter as Koi George. Every spring I wonder if he is still alive -- and every spring he is bigger than he was when the pond iced over. He has at least doubled in length (and probably girth) in the last 6-7 years. He is now about 3-foot long, and looks like a bright orange torpedo. I don't know what he eats. He comes around at feeding time, but I've never seen him take pellets. This time of year he always pals up with one of the big catfish. Where you see one, you'll see the other -- until we bring the catfish in for dinner.

Thanks for all the input. I've got a nephew who bowfishes at night with a generator running some bright lights on his boat. If we can figure out how to launch and get it back out of the pond this may be the best way.
Catmandoo, I know what you mean by comparing them to submarines. The rare instances I see them brings a submarine to mind.

This reminds me of active research focused on transgenic incorporation of an inducible fatality gene (IFG).
What a concept! Stephen King could certainly weave this idea into a thriller.
A normally benign dietary substance is used to trigger selective mortality of a trans-genetically modified population.
Theoretically, the concept could be employed for managing grass carp populations - not to mention many others.

I have 13 of these submarines in my 1 acre pond...well over 20 Lbs each, probably closer to 30...need to thin them out. I bought a bowfish rig and have started attempts to hit one, right now my batting average is about 0/30 (I've never used a Bow before)

Remember to aim low.The fish are usually deeper than they appear.Keep trying and you will get the hang of it.Sometimes you have to aim below the fish to hit it....Joe

Look up refraction and see how it applies to objects that are under water when viewed from above the water.

Take a liter soda bottle, put some sand in it, and fill it full of water. Tie a string around the neck, and toss it into the pond in a couple feet of water. If you can, remove the barb on the arrow. Practice, practice, practice. You'll get good quickly. The amount that you have to aim under the fish all depends on the depth of the fish. There's no substitution for practice. I can't count the number of times I've thrown an arrow at a fish, and at first, my success mirrored yours.

Thanks for the good advice, I'm kind of having fun with it though still haven't hit one. I'm using a basic Recurve from PSE, it seems a compound would be easier, though not sure why I say this as I've never shot a Compound either.

Lots of guys like the recurve better for bowfishing because for a quick snap shot they don't have to be drawn all the way back to the "wall" like a compound.

With that said, I use a compound because I had one that is ancient and I don't use it anymore for deer hunting - I'm too cheep to buy a new bow for a couple weeks of bowfishing in the Spring.

Do they surface much?
Would a scoped 22 rifle shooting hollow points work?

That must be the "EASY" button your talking about.

Yes, mine surface a lot and are very shallow...wouldn't even need a scope, a shotgun with a heavy load would work as well; However, unfortunately, I'm in the city limits and to make matters worse, in the burbs. I keep expecting the cops to show up when I'm out shooting at them with a bow.

Not sure it would work on the carp
but I bought a really nice pellet gun that shoots hollow points ($141)
it even came with a scope & it's real quiet.



Gamo Big Cat 22 Pellet Gun w/scope

Probably wouldn't work well but if I was one of these rich guys like others on here, I would try one of these, at least it would give me an excuse to buy one...I think they go for $2000 or more



Airwolf

And that price is probably without optics. You'd also need for a way to fill the scuba tank to fill the reservoir on the rifle. PCP's are the best shooting air rifles out there! Also, on the spec sheet, I believe the pressure readings are in BAR, not PSI.

Grass Carp are easily the most elusive fish I have ever seen. I too had a pond overstocked with them and tried everything to catch them....to no avail. After they had cleaned the entire pond of all vegetation, they got so hungry I finally caught some on worms while bluegill fishing. They will break tackle if you manage to hook one....extremely strong fish. I tried shooting them with a .22 rifle like someone else mentioned. Only confirmed one kill....they have really hard heads. They do seemingly live forever, well over 20 years. Finally had to rotenone the pond and they were the last fish to die. They actually beached themselves to get oxygen and then flopped back into the water. It was an amazing acrobatic display. Be VERY conservative with your stocking rates for these fish.

are carp stunned during an electric survey?

Yes, grass carp are just as susceptible to electroshock fishing as other species... They are however often very wary and will scoot away from the boat before the electric field gets to them.