Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations What's your take on this?

Our lake has been stocked with F-1's for ten years. According to the electroshock we had yesterday, we have an abundance of forage but our gene pool seems to be bad out of whack due to hybrid inbreeding. The evaluator seems to think we need to add 1400 lb (70 acre lake) of Northern Black Bass that are in the 1 to 1.5 lb class this winter. Also removing as many of the F-1's as we can. This will not be a cheap venture so we are trying to get as much information on our options as possible. The current stock of fish we have now are at about 90% relative weight but we are just not catching like we used to.
What's your take on this? Many thanks.

You need to call Bob Lusk. More info on the history and shock results would help. At this point I don't trust that evaluation on the limited facts provided. I do not think one can verify genetic problems with an electroshock survey when you have 90 % RWs. IMO Northern LMB , Fla LMB and their offspring mixes F-1 - Xs do not exhibit inbreeding problems in that context. They are not separate species showing hybrid vigor and outbreeding depression. That does not mean that adding a few new genes is a bad idea. More likely you have a catchability problem which is shown to be a genetically heritable trait but has nothing to do with F-1s ( it happens to all LMB). What is the price for 1000 LMB that size ?

See this http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post159224

We were quoted $8 lb on 1 to 1.5 Northern LMB delivered in Nov-Dec.

One of the problems we had yesterday was the fact that we only shocked 2-3 3 lb fish, I know that our relative weight on our larger bass is MUCH less than 90 on the bigger fish in the lake.

My suggestion is post all the data you have on the lake on this thread and let's see what others say. Include a history of the lake , stocking history , harvest info , water quality data , pics etc - all of that will help.

Once Greg and I shocked a lake and got 1 LMB about 2 lbs - that's all the LMB. When we drained the lake and rotenoned it there were several 10 lb LMB and a bunch of others.

I agree with ewest...it is hard to tell much without seeing any data and knowing more of the lake's management history.

The fact that you say the bigger fish are not in very good condition could be a signal that you don't have enough properly sized forage to support the bigger bass...bigger bass need lots of big forage to grow and maintain good relative weights. What kind of forage species are in the lake?

Also, when you say that you aren't catching fish like you used to, do you mean you aren't catching as many bigger ones or you are just not catching as many bass period?

Another thought:

If the electrofishing survey was just performed...within the last week or so, I could understand not seeing as many bass...especially since the lake is in central Alabama, and even more so if the lake has a lot of deep/open water. Here in coastal South Carolina we already have lakes with 80 degree water, and a lot of the bass have already moved out to deep water. Typically, the deeper they are, the harder they are to get with an electrofishing boat.

$8 per lb is actually a good price for those fish. Not saying thats the thing to do, but just saying what I do know.

Is the evaluator just using his observations on the fish population or is he basing that also on your conversations about catch rates, etc.

Without knowing a thing about your genetics, or the evaluator, or your complete survey results, etc I do know that your catch rates would indeed go through the roof stocking 1400 lbs of adult northern bass. When we stock the 1.25 lb northern bass at similar rates (20 lbs per acre) clients are always amazed at how often they catch those stocked fish compared to catching the native bass. Like astronomical difference.

n8ly your last paragraph above is what we were told.
For those that have ask here are some facts on our lake. Central Alabama, 11 yr old, formed from a creek that feeds Lay Lake, 6.5 miles of shoreline w/ very hilly topo around lake, 40' deep in several spots.
Stocked 10 yr ago w/F-1, Threadfin, and CNB. Golden Shiners were native. 2 yr ago stocked 30k CNB and added 11 feeders. Talapia were stocked last spring. This spring added 30k Threadfin. According to our electro fishing guy he saw an abundance of forage fish.
We have a hard time harvesting small Bass due to low fishing pressure. We have limed often and are blooming at 18 to 24". We have added Bass structure (hardwoods) as well as adding 36 Christmas trees per year for our baitfish. Ph is 6.6 and can't seem to put our finger on a solid alkalinity # one says 11 the next says 26.
The relative weight of our Bass tested in 2011 was about a pound less than they should be in the 3-6 lb range. As I mentioned the largest Bass shocked this year was only 3 lb.

In the shock survey what did you see wrt BG sizes and numbers ? Same question for TShad and GShiners? With all the recent forage added no surprise you saw plenty. It may not have had time to show up in the LMB.

It is important to understand that often just adding more food (pellets and forage)results in just a lot more small LMB. You have to manage the predators (LMB). Predator harvest can not be over emphasized.

If that is the situation then adding more LMB will only make things worse over time. If you want new LMB genes then you need to first remove 3X as many LMB as you add. Shoot for 30 lbs of LMB per acre removal plus the 1000 lbs for the added fish. 70 X 30 = 2100 + 1000 = 3100 lbs of LMB. None of those should be from the fish you are adding

Many thanks for your help ewest. Our relative weight of BG was at or above size. The BG shocked at feeders was above wrt.

With that 3100 lb number looming, we may have to hire electroshocking this fall when the water cools. We just don't have the fishing pressure to remove 3100 under 15".

We get groups like scouts , church groups , fishing clubs etc to help us. We tell them the rules and are there when they fish to help sort the fish. It helps a lot on big jobs plus it lets us judge condition on lots of fish.