Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Purina Feed Choice for Bream & HSB

You guys are mixing a lot of subjects.

Compensatory feeding is a recent idea and it was discussed here a little. It involves feeding for a period say 5 days and turning off the feed for say 2 days. It is designed for better growth rates but would also serve to force the fish to natural food. My feeders don't have that ability and I don't know if the new timers have that ability.

That paper goes into great detail about all major aspects of feeding on many types of fish . I just posted a couple points.

Compare the labels of feeds and see what they contain and compare them. Dave the article covers all sorts of fish - warm water , cold water ,some salt water, cats ,tilapia ,trout and a bunch more. The paper has about 300 reference papers.

Be sure to distinguish between aquaculture/hatchery fish (very high dependence on pellets) and pond fish (only a small % dependence on pellets). In most non-hatchery BOW pellets are supplemental not primary. In aquaculture operations pellet matters/questions are critical but not so much in pond situations. There are studies on protein requirements for different fish. Many note that the cost of higher protein feed is not warranted ( for example 32 vs. 38) where fish have an adequate mixed natural diet. An exception is in crowded ponds or in growout/young fish situations where higher protein % can really help jump start growth. I often mix 38% fingerling food with GFC to cover several bases. I try to look at the labels and mix things up with GFC as a basic to reduce non- fish meal protein and carbs. I like the different size pellets in GFC. It doesn't matter what is in the feed if the fish can't eat it because of pellet size.


Here are a couple points worth discussing.

1. Fish meal in high % in feed is good as it provides protein and the right amino acids (AA) and lipids. It is not so much the % protein but the right type and amount AA that is critical.

2. To much carbs is not good and comes a lot from non-fish meal/oil protein (plant) sources like soy and legumes. It is not the carbs as such that cause fatty liver type problems but the sugars that are produced in the breakdown of carbs.

3 .I have seen no indication that supp feeding of pond fish ( ones that eat natural food + pellets as a supp source) in cold water causes a problem. I have seen several studies that say do feed but at reduced rates until the fish (type dependant) reach their thermal feeding minimum, then stop. If you stop before then you may miss the most important time to feed them - the fall growth spurt and winter storage period , just before feeding slows for winter. Let the fish tell you. If the water temp is 55 and the BG and LMB are feeding like mad getting ready for winter, don't stop because some article said feeding below 60 can cause problems.

4. Feeding to much or having to much fish biomass in a small BOW can cause water quality problems via excess feed and waste .

5. No doubt in my mind adequate balanced natural food is better . Many situations call for pellets even if they are not quite as good as a natural balanced food supply. Recall that the answer to growth is calories/energy in vs. energy expended. Not much energy expended in catching a pellet so the net is higher even if the food is not quite as good.

Enough ramblings for now.

Good synopsis, Eric. BTW..I have water! 5 more inches last night.

Theo,

I kind of have a similar situation with HSB and several other species and wanting to target the HSB with high protein feed.. My approach is to feed the high protein (expensive) feed in the deep water areas and lower protein (less expensive feed) in the shallow areas. In my case, the HSB dominate the deep water feeding and the BG, Tilapia, Grass carp tend to feast on the lower protein feeding station in relatively shallow water.

BTW, as mentioned before, Rangen makes GFC in my area but interestingly they won't sell it direct to me at their warehouse. They will only sell their name branded feeds at the plant.

That's great BM. Did any fish survive? I hope. Either way what is the plan ? Is the pond near full?

ML that is a strange sales method -- what is up with that ? Is all their GFC pre sold to or made for distributors?

ML:

That is the area distribution split I was thinking might work. I'll have to see if the fish agree next year.

OK, so I'm wondering along these lines, what would be the "filet mignon" of feeds in smaller quantities to grow out some of your pond fish in a tank during the winter?

I think more people with smaller ponds, between say .1 acre and 1.5 acres could raise enough fish in the winter indoors to enjoy the spectacle and enhance their fish populations in their primary ponds. Aquatic Ecosystems has some really expensive feeds for their Koi that wouldn't really hurt the bottom line if you were only using ten to twenty pounds during the winter. For example, if normal feed costs 50 cents/pound, but some medicated or "super formula" food cost 2 bucks, then you'd only be costing yourself an extra 20 to 40 dollars. Here's an example.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/11367/cid/2440

Any comments? Maybe from some of you who know someone who is really into the aquarium scene?

BC, I do not see that food making a major impact on the fish just on your wallet. I see where your going. I also did not read all this thread so maybe not on track here.

BUT I suggest for econmic choice on CNBG a 36% protein level, 3.5 % fat 1/8 inch pellet, I sell for $16 ranges most places $13-$18. Maybe more in midwest. If folks want to step it up then we sell the trout chow, 44% protein 18% fat, 1/8 inch pellet, $23/bag. If not using this then suggest that being used or in this case use it for filet mignon choice in aquarium. I can not bring myself to see the reason to spend $9 for 5 lb bag,

Bruce if I were going to grow out (overwinter) a few fish (100 +-) in an RAS or two and they were small fish (like you did last year) I would go with natural food (theirs if possible) and mix it up. Krill , worms , FH (minnows), scuds, crickets , and supp. with high protein food (fish meal/oil) with little bulk or carbs.

I am taking the corollary approach to ewest's this Winter. I am feeding 40% protein pelleted feed for the majority of the diet, with a natural supplement "dessert" (earthworms, mealworms, krill) once or twice a week. By Spring my 27 RES will have been on this diet for about 8 months; stayed tuned.

I agree that supplying natural feed as well as prepared commerical pellets is good (perhaps we should just say essential) for long term nutrition (thinks to fish feeding info ewest has provided from studies ). For predators like SMB I would want to add a higher percentage of natural protein; for omnivores like Tilapia or catfish I would not worry about it as much as I have with Lepomis species.

What's the cheapest krill source? I know you told me before, but I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up.

Water is in the low 50's sometimes mid 50's to what temps should I see the HSB feed. Mine slowed but are still eating or will they fed all winter?

We should have Cecil list where he got his 2 kilos from, assuming they showed up. They have to be cheaper in bulk form like that.

For aqaurium-sized quantities, I'd go to a dedicated pet center (PetSmart in my case). They tend to have larger containers of fish feed than the pet dept at Walmart, etc., with corresponding better prices per ounce.

Based on the HSB expert's reports, I expect yours will stop feeding fairly soon as the temps drop. Even if fish take feed in colder water, they can have trouble digesting prepared feeds (mostly due to plant source carbohydrate content) which can cause health problems. This tends to be exascerbated in predators, so I imagine HSB are at risk.

Joey, our HSB slow down in the winter but never stop feeding.

Based upon extensive striped bass fishing experience, stripers are voracious feeders at temps in the 50+ degree range, and continue to feed until water temps reach the mid 40‘s.

Striped bass are an anadromous species, native to the cold northeastern U.S. coastal waters, and successfully transplanted to inland reservoirs.
Striped bass are my all time favorite sport fish, and without a doubt, HSB are the primary predator fish for our ponds.

I see no reason their hybrid offspring feeding habits would be any different.

ps: My wife caught a 13.5# Lake Texoma hybrid striped bass 01-22-93.
The fish were schooling on top water.
Near surface water temperature was 43.5 degrees.

George do you feed them every other day, etc. depending on the weather. I had feeder set for 4 times/day then scaled back to 2 then one now only fed on warm afternoons by hand. I'm trying to raise the 3-5 inchers to 8-10 inchers to harvest for clients out of one of our holding ponds. I'm surprised they are still feeding water temp last week b/f the recent warm front was down to 52. thanks

Nice HSB!

Greg, we feed twice daily since I don’t know if feeders can be set for alternate days.
Currently, with optimum temps, we are feeding twice daily – 8:00 am and 5:00 pm at a rate of 3#’s per acre/day.
As feeding slows we lower feed amount to once daily feeding.

(Feeding includes CNBG, oversize/overstocked CC and occasional GC, as well as HSB)

Maybe Todd will chime in on this since he also is growing out 8-10 inch HSB.

Thank George, and that is a really nice HSB.

Joey,

Mine feed most of the winter. I reduce the amount of feed when water temps get below 50 degrees, but continue to feed and see HSB feeding activity.

Once water temps drop into the 50s, we just feed a maintenance ration on nice weather days. Can't say what % body weight that we feed, however, just cause I don't know for sure.

With good growing temps (60s-70-s) we feed as often as twice daily.

Didnt feed the pond yesterday, today water is even a tad colder but I had a fair amount of takers. Only threw a few cups out. The stripers fed good and I had BG feed also, water low 50's The dock BG/CNBG are still eating the crushed pellets very good.