Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Too many bluegill?

I have a 1.5 acre newly constructed pond that I am managing for large bass. The bluegill in the pond are 2.5 yrs old and the bass are 2. I feed mechanically with aquamax twice daily. There are a ton of bluegill of all sizes. I had planned to cull the bass less than 14" this year. Problem is, there aren't any. I have caught one 12" fish over the past 2 months. I regularly catch bass 15-16.5" and 2.5 lbs. I have rarely seen small bass 3-4 inches cruising the shallows. By my guess the bluegill::bass is 100's::1. Could the bluegill be eating all the small bass? Is this a problem?

What were the stocking ratios?

If you have fished in the pond a lot for the LMB, they could be hook shy.

Like what was said before, what were the stocking rates and sizes of fish when stocked?

stocked fingerlings

1200 BG
300 RES
50 LMB
50 F1 floridas
Stocked FHM initially also
Stocked GSH last year

I removed 20 LMB last year because I felt the stocking was a bit heavy, but didn't catch and release anything. Now I have only been fishing to cull. The small ones shouldn't be hook shy, because they have never been caught.

I can't factor in for your feeding but here in MO the recommended stocking rate is generally 500 BG, 100 LMB, & 100 CC per acre without feeding. In this configuration the BG's job is to eat enough LMB eggs to keep them from over populating, which sounds like what is happening to me. The stocking rates you mentioned seem a little heavy on the BG & RES, in relation to the number of bass. Just my opinion.

Those seem on par or slightly below the stocking recommendations for MO as the pond is 1.5 acres. I think those values are correct if he wants to large bass. More forage and fewer predators equal bigger bass in theory.

I would do a seine survey in June and see what you come up with...

That is on par for the BG but I was saying that it was a little heavy relative to the 100 bass. The feeding benefits the BG almost exclusively so a slight imbalance at the start gets amplified over time.

Greenhead -

My first suggestion would be to echo what CJBS2003 said. There is a good chance the bigger bass are just hiding for right now. I wouldn't panic.

As for what Jimmi said above "The feeding benefits the BG almost exclusively" is true, except for the word exclusively". Whether you are managing for big bass or big bluegill, it is important to feed the bluegill. They are the main source of food for the bass. Feeding the bluegill will help to grow the bluegill, and the larger bluegill will produce more offspring for the bass to eat.

Somewhere above there is a posting that stated that this large quantity of bluegill will eat the bass eggs. I've never run across that in any workshops or papers. And from personal observance, no bluegill is going to be allowed anywhere near the eggs and fry when they first hatch. The bluegill might consume some egs, egg-sacs and fry, but I don't believe it will contribute to a significant reduction in bass. And, if it did, the remaining bass would get even bigger on a faster schedule.

I'd wait until at least a week or two after the first bluegill spawn to see what you've got. The bluegill/RES stocking plan you show was a little high, but the bass should have made corrections. I know it will be hard to do, but I wouldn't do a whole lot of LMB fishing until you get an idea of what you've got.

Good luck, and keep us posted. Just like in a garden, nothing is going to happen real fast.

Ken

P.S. I know weather is a little different between your pond and Nebraska ponds, but this is one of the best BG/LMB publications I've seen: Managing Nebraska Bass/Bluegill Ponds. The entire series, which is also excellent, can be downloaded here: Nebraska Pond Management Guide Series

Thanks for the input from all. Just to be clear, I am catching large fish, but no small ones. My concern is that the bass may have had a poor spawn last spring for some reason. I guess at some point, they will catch up to the bream.

I overstated the effects of BG predation of bass eggs in a balanced pond. But it does appear in the literature related to imbalanced ponds of too many BG to too few bass, a situation similar to what Greenhead was suggesting.

For instance:
From the Michigan State University Extension here

"...these hungry bluegills will reduce the numbers of young bass produced by raiding nests and eating the eggs and larvae."

and from Langston University Aquaculture in Oklahoma: here

"When excessive numbers of predator fish like the largemouth bass or channel catfish are removed from a pond, forage fish populations expand. Forage fish such as bluegill will increase in numbers until limited by food supply..." "...The numerous bluegill eat largemouth bass eggs and their numbers prevent bass from adequately guarding nests. The result is few if any young largemouth bass. The remaining adult bass may grow large but their numbers are very few."

but most often appears in studies of problem lakes where there are too many BG and not enough bass such as this study of Lee Hall reservoir in Newport News, Virginia: here

"The significant interactions that were captured in the model were predation by adult bluegill on the bass eggs..."

and Martindale Pond in Indiana here

"The poor bass population was a result of poor recruitment of young fish into the population. Bass recruitment likely suffered because of predation on bass eggs by bluegill."

Interesting situation. Lets not loose sight of the goals. LARGE bass.
I think this can be a very GOOD situation as long as it lasts.

Normal LMB populations, in a truly balanced fishery for general angling, reproduce and require harvesting of young LMB to maintain optimum bass growth while maintaining numerous small forage fish at a ratio of 5-10 BG :1 LMB. The goal here is not a balanced fishery for general angling. The goal is trophy bass that requires a higher ratio of BG:LMB which exists in Greenheads case!. Growing trophy predators requires a different management technique. Generally you don't want the bass to become overpopulated and apparently overpopulation of LMB is definately not the case here. It does seem the LMB have not recruited many individuals for what ever reason in either of the 2 in-pond years. For growing trophy bass this is, IMO, not a real bad thing, not the best, but not bad either. I and probably others here consider it good.

The bad part is natural recruitment is not happening, BUT for growing trophy bass I would rather have to regularly add bass than to try to take out lots of small 8"-12" bass. However some like catching and disposing of 8"-12" LMB. With minimal LMB recruitment, you have more control of the predators/fishery while achieving optimum growth rates of predators which IS the goal in this situation. Currently bass are 2 yr old and 2.2-2.5 lbs = growth of 1.25 lb/yr - young, plump, fast growing LMB. At this rate at 5 yr his LMB should be 6.0-7.0 lbs well on their way to trophy class. At 7-8 yrs they could be 9-10 lbs! Very good in most books.

As mentioned, check with a seine survey once or twice in the next 2 months to sample for small LMB that should be 1.5"-4" long depending on the date sampled. LMB spawning in AK should be about over at end of April. LMB fry will grow at about 1 mm/day. End of May they should easily be 1.25"-1.5" long. Sample for them. If the hatch was again poor in 2012 I would buy some (30-50) pellet trained LMB that are 6"-8" long. This does several things: 1. It provides a 2nd year class that will grow very fast on pellets; 2. Some new bass will eat some small BG and provide reduction of some BG; 3. It provides another group of less hook smart bass for anglers. 4. It gives the manager a choice of what type of new LMB are added and how many. Win, win, win, win, IMO.

It would be a good idea to do a seine survey each year to determine if any supplimental stocking of LMB is needed. Keep us posted on your progress. Hopefully, you will be telling us about some nice big bass in a few years. However, as those initial stockers age, they will become increasingly harder to catch regularly. They will definately become the rare "bonus" fish while the supplimentally stocked LMB will be the most commonly caught bass. By the time the initial 100 stocker LMB are 7-9yrs old (2018) there will probably be only 8-15 remaining of the original stockers in the 1.5ac fish community.

Great suggestions, Bill! I do admit to being quite envious of Greenhead's "problem"! LOL