Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Trouble with siphon draining my pond

I am trying to drain my 1.25 acre pond to do some work on the levee. I am using 4" corrugated drain tile because that is what I had on hand.

I attempted the "fill the tile and drop down the backside of the levee method" but could never get a flow going. So I rigged a cap for the drain side and put a tee in up top to fill the tile and then capped it off once the tile was full.
Once the siphon was started it would run for about 5 minutes then tapper off and quit. This would happen every time I would start it. There was no blockage at the intake to stop the siphon so I cannot figure out what is causing it to stop.

Is it possible… the fact it runs the same amount of time every time, that it is taking on air somewhere and killing the siphon?

Thanks!

Tom

First off welcome to pond boss. Where abouts in IL are you located?

That would be my thought. There has to be air getting in to stop the siphon.

How much lower is the outlet side than the inlet? The lower the outlet is the stronger the flow will be. A greater flow may resist the stopping if slight amounts of air are entering the hose. Have you tested the tile to make sure there is no leakage?

Air leakage would be my guess as to what's breaking the siphon.

Both scenarios suggested seem correct.

If the drain has to lift the water from a similar level as the discharge, the pipe may gulp air from the discharge and slowly kill the vacuum.

Either way, my bet is air is involved.

When your trying to fill a pipe manually it can be hard to get the air out and then get the intake side back underwater, and corrugated pipe is more prone to holding air bubbles.

Is there anyway you can get a pump there to help get the siphon flowing?

Also the longer you can make the pipe on the discharge side that is below the pond level the more suction you'll get.

Thanks for the welcome! I am in Mclean county smack dab in the middle of the state.

The discharge side is at least 10' lower than the inlet. I have about 75' of tile on the discharge side and about 20' out in the pond.
I can hear a slight whistle around the Tee when it is running so my guess is that is where it is leaking. I wouldn't think a little air leak would stop it but.......

I am going to try a 4" sewer Tee with a screw in plug to see if that will remedie the problem. I realize drain tile is not designed to be air tight but I am gonna give it a go.

I don't have any power out there yet and I don't own a gas powered pump. If I can't get it going tonight I might have to look into it.

This simple siphon has turned into a 3 day fiasco!

Thanks for the input!

Tom

The whistling and leftover air in the corregations is your answer.

Is there any way to fill the entire tile including the gap from the tee (high spot) to the pond without a check valve?
The trouble I have is that the water just runs out into the pond and never fills completely.

Can you borrow a submersible pump, then use an inverter and battery, if you can't get it going manually try that.

I also think you have an air leak that is stopping the siphon. Several years ago, I was worried that a 2" valve would not let in enough air to stop a 8" siphon. It is absolutely not a problem. Stops it quickly so... An air leak will definitely stop a siphon.

If you can borrow a gas water pump, enough water hose to run from the pump to the downhill end of the pipe, and one of those clog busters (see link below), you can ensure the downhill side of the pipe is full (might even help find if there are any holes in pipe). If there are no air links, it'll work well.

What you do is make sure pipe is airtight, put pump intake line in water at pond, connect water hose to pump on one end and clog buster on other, insert clog buster into downhill end, start up pump, let run for long enough to fill pipe (watch for pipe sinking, listen for water running through into pond, etc.), and then shut off pump. Clog buster will deflate, water pressure pushes it out of pipe, siphon started.

I've used another brand clog buster in 2" pvc repeatedly with great luck. I have the 4-6" one shown below; but have not tried it yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Oatey-33442-4-6-Cl...8691&sr=8-2

at the bottom side, of the pipe were water is coming out. create a "U shape" in the piping. this will help keep air from finding its way back up through the pipe.

the "tee" at the "highest point" in the plumbing. i would caution use of a "pipe test plug" or less you have the more expensive ballon shaped ones. the cheapo's can let air get sucked in. and by the time you crank down on the wing nut or handle of the cheap test plugs, you break something.

a screw on plug can work nice, preferable a "clean out" plug that has a good size square nut on the end. that you can easily place a pipe wrench or pair of channel locks on. to help tighten / loosen.

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as far as priming the siphon. i bought the "Cheapest" sump pump i could find. not because of the money, but rather, how much power it required. and then obtained a 12V to 110V converter that plugs into the cigerette lighter, that then allows you to run a small appliance like a light or fan. (pick up at most electronic stores), a heavy duty extension cord. and a garden hose.

if you buy too big of a sump pump. you will cause the converters to trip, and you will be constantly fighting the converter, and/or cause damage to converter.

if you have a small size vehicle truck or car. you might want someone in the vehicle keeping the engine partially rev'ed up, when using sump pump, found out hard way, and ran battery dead. and had to walk a mile to get another vehicle up by the house on farm. just to get a jump.

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you will most likely want to put some sort of "grating" or cage around inlet on the siphon. i have had good size catfish, bass, blue gill, frogs, sticks. get caught to edge of a milk crate, that i was using as a grating for the inlet. also lost plenty of minows and tadpoles as well.

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be prepared to re start siphon up once or twice a day. "air" can come out of the water. and can find its way in the highest spot in the siphon. and stop the water movement.

Any connections you have, whether it's a coupling, "T" or anything else, silicone caulk the snot out of it and let it set up. Those corregated connectors aren't known for being air tight.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
Here is the latest...
Replaced the corrugated tee with a sewer clean out.
Caulked the connectors and rechecked for leaks.
Filled the tile from the tee to the outlet and let sit for about 10 minutes and no signs of leaks.
Screwed the plug into the tee and opened the outlet.
Same results... ran for about 5 minutes and died.

Here are some pics of the setup:


And the back side:


Here is a shot of the washed out area around the overflow that needs repair;


Should I just bust the dam and let her rip? I am afraid that when we remove those trees that are directly in front of the washed out area it may give out anyway.

Just wondering....

T

If you have dirt to replace what gets washed away, and with all the troubles you've been having, I'd let 'er rip.