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Condello BG
#285903 03/28/12 08:07 PM
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Ok, a post recommended that I stock Condello BG. I recall seeing a post recently with giant pics of such BG, but seemed like the owner couldn't sell them. Is there a source for these?

Re: Condello BG
Tree Farmer #285910 03/28/12 09:15 PM
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I think Bruce Condello does.

If Bruce isn't, I'd sell you some Condello/Baird cross bluegills that perform just as well thanks to Bruce's work, but I'd have to spend a small fortune getting them health tested for VHS to ship them out of state.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/28/12 09:17 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Condello BG
Cecil Baird1 #285913 03/28/12 09:34 PM
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Tree Farmer, can we get more info about your pond? What are your goals for it and what management practices you are practicing? Feeding, aeration, etc... I am not down playing fish genetics, they certainly are a factor. However, it's my opinion they are not the biggest factor by far... Other things such as proper food sources, good water quality, etc have a bigger factor in growing large bluegill, if that is even your primary goal.


Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.
Re: Condello BG
CJBS2003 #285917 03/28/12 09:46 PM
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Them fish are not easy to get.. smile


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

Re: Condello BG
Bluegillerkiller #285920 03/28/12 10:19 PM
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I am working on it AS WE SPEAK! smile

Genetics are a really big factor!


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Condello BG
Bluegillerkiller #285922 03/28/12 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bluegillerkiller
Them fish are not easy to get.. smile


Sure they are! Just drive to Nebraska and help TJ seine his pond. Then beat feet for home. grin


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Condello BG
esshup #285923 03/28/12 11:33 PM
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Come on out. Have 1,000,000 for sale.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Re: Condello BG
teehjaeh57 #285939 03/29/12 06:15 AM
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At this time.. All I'm good for is moral support..

YOU CAN DO IT GUYS!!!!!!!!!

Then send some my way lol smile


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

Re: Condello BG
Bluegillerkiller #285940 03/29/12 06:45 AM
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So would these BG specimin do well in an Aquaphonics setup?

Re: Condello BG
NCMike #285946 03/29/12 07:32 AM
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Yes they will. Cecil has some in a tank right now.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Re: Condello BG
esshup #286024 03/29/12 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Yes they will. Cecil has some in a tank right now.


Both Bruce and I have had no problem with them in tanks. I also have some in cages at the present time until I can sex them. The only time I've had problems is keeping large specimens in cages that were never in cages before, which is understandable with any fish. I had beat up pec fins which may have meant they were fighting. It was also a low density cage so they probably became territorial.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/30/12 10:50 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Re: Condello BG
esshup #286025 03/29/12 10:32 PM
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Can someone show me genetics are anywhere near as important as food source/supply and habitat? I am betting they can't...

You can have the greatest genetics ever, but if you have poor conditions they will never be expressed. It's a basic principle in the management of almost any animal. You see it with whitetail deer too... You could have a buck with the greatest farm raised pedigree genes ever. However, if he lives on a crappy range his whole life where he's half starved, he'll be lucky to eeek out a 100 class rack. You put some run of the mill none pedigree bucks into high quality range, you're going to see some nice bucks. Sure, you'll have some duds... But, if you don't have good range, it doesn't matter how great the genes are.


Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.
Re: Condello BG
CJBS2003 #286046 03/30/12 03:12 AM
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I dont think anyone is saying genetics are the only thing that matters but if you are willing to manage the fish to try to maximize the size, then yes genetics play a huge roll.

I look at it this way you have 4 options:

1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish

Re: Condello BG
NCMike #286054 03/30/12 04:48 AM
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It takes both. Genes are a slippery slope unless you KNOW the history of all ancestors. There are genes, recessive genes, etc.

But, you're right about proper nutrition.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Condello BG
CJBS2003 #286057 03/30/12 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Can someone show me genetics are anywhere near as important as food source/supply and habitat? I am betting they can't...

You can have the greatest genetics ever, but if you have poor conditions they will never be expressed. It's a basic principle in the management of almost any animal. You see it with whitetail deer too... You could have a buck with the greatest farm raised pedigree genes ever. However, if he lives on a crappy range his whole life where he's half starved, he'll be lucky to eeek out a 100 class rack. You put some run of the mill none pedigree bucks into high quality range, you're going to see some nice bucks. Sure, you'll have some duds... But, if you don't have good range, it doesn't matter how great the genes are.

I'm not losing or gaining any money out of these statements... If someone who has money to gain would like to show scientifically that a proper management program is not far more important and the first steps that should be taken in managing for large bluegill, I'd love to see it.


I guess I'm trying to figure out who you're arguing against here. Does anybody on this forum dispute the need for good management?

And if you're implying the someone here is trying to "make money" by saying all you need is good genetics, then you've never read a single thing I've posted on this forum. I haven't sold a single fish in nearly five years, and have invested tens of thousands of dollars trying to improve the genetics in my fish stock. So where are we going with this? I've reviewed this thread over and over again, and I still haven't found the quote where somebody says all you need is good genetics.

Last edited by Bruce Condello; 03/30/12 06:17 AM. Reason: Toned it down a little.

Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Condello BG
NCMike #286058 03/30/12 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: NCMike
I dont think anyone is saying genetics are the only thing that matters but if you are willing to manage the fish to try to maximize the size, then yes genetics play a huge roll.

I look at it this way you have 4 options:

1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish


Nicely stated. Excellent.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Condello BG
CJBS2003 #286060 03/30/12 06:32 AM
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I was once told, after making a claim to have caught a "huge" fathead minnow, on a #10 hook, that it was next to impossible for a fathead to get big enough to take a hook that size.

Is the limiting factor here a genetic one, or a management one?


Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer.
Re: Condello BG
JamesBryan #286062 03/30/12 06:52 AM
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Both. There are many limiting factors in growing big fish. Oxygen, genetics, food amounts, food quality, social factors, even water itself. Any one of which can place limitations on a fish's potential.


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
Re: Condello BG
Bruce Condello #286063 03/30/12 07:11 AM
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Maybe part of it comes down to one's goals, and expectations. I've stated here before that I believe size is relative to location. I think we would all agree that a 3 lb. Bluegill is an exceptionally large fish. In some locales however, a 1 lb. Bluegill is considered huge. It would appear to me that if growing a 3 lber was the goal, then genetics would probably assume a much greater importance than it would with a 1 lb. fish.

Also, what kinds of numbers are involved? We all know that there will be that exceptional fish in every year class of Bluegills. The one that has everything going for it. I think that's where state record fish come from. But, if you're wanting a large quantity of a particular year class of fish to achieve trophy status, (say over 2 lbs.), then I would expect to source fish with the best genetics I could find.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Re: Condello BG
esshup #286064 03/30/12 07:30 AM
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I have a new pond (the happy side of me calls it a majestic lake) that we just capped two days ago. It will be two acres at full pond, and has two springs feeding it from above the full pool level at a rate of about 40 gallons per minute combined. It will be 20' deep along the dam, and average depth of 8-10'. It has some great rock ledges on one side, lots of nice boulders, etc. The spring water flowing in is crystal clear, and due to the way the lake was made I think I will be able to actually create some waterfalls from it before it enters the lake. The lake also has a 25 acre drainage area...all mountainous, and I own to to the top of the mountain, so I shouldn't have to worry about activities uphill disturbing the lake.

The official goal of the lake is to support agricultural operations below the lake through irrigation. Ancillary goals are to have a place where the family can have fun through fishing and swimming (in that order). As for fishing, I don't care about having huge LMB. I would like to have large BG, but I would rather have many good sized BG than a few behemoths. One of the reasons I'm not so big on huge LMB is that I'm not real big on catch and release...like someone else on the board, I like to release em to the grease! I also love RES (tasty) and CC (tastier). I will do HSB if I can get approval from the marine folks (an utterly stupid rule here in VA).

Re: Condello BG
Tree Farmer #286065 03/30/12 07:36 AM
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OK guys, I started typing the post above yesterday and finished it this morning, before reading the argument about genetics/management. I do intend to properly manage the lake, and as I said many fish will become crispy brown each week/year. One thing I left out above is that I understand that for my general goals it sounds like I would be better served by having a lot of 10-14" LMB...sounds great to me, as LMB around the upper end of that size fry up quite nicely as well! We have a large family, and they all love a great fish fry!

Re: Condello BG
Tree Farmer #286076 03/30/12 08:34 AM
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I also plan to feed the CC, the BG, and the HSB

Re: Condello BG
teehjaeh57 #286080 03/30/12 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Come on out. Have 1,000,000 for sale.


I'll take 500.

Re: Condello BG
Tree Farmer #286081 03/30/12 09:10 AM
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Do CNBG survive long term in VA? Those with experience? Tree Farmer do you know the plant growing zone for the area around your pond? With your fish harvest plans I wonder if BG would survive long enough to make to trophy status? It would take good co-operation of all anglers.

Speaking of fast growing large BG: FYI - North Central Regional Aquaculture Center is advertising for proposals for a 2 year study to "Develop Genetically Fast Growing Monosex Male Populations in Bluegill Sunfish". Their goal is to improve growth rate, eliminate the problem of prolific reeproduction, precocious maturity and their consequences. They propose this be done through selective breeding to produce monosex populations. They therorize that combining super male germoplasm with performance selected female lines should produce quality offspring. They want populations raised at two or more locations. Grant money will be $160,000 for this project (USDA funded). Results are to be published. Hopefully this will provide knowledge for growing bigger and better BG.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/30/12 09:25 AM.

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Re: Condello BG
Bill Cody #286098 03/30/12 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Speaking of fast growing large BG: FYI - North Central Regional Aquaculture Center is advertising for proposals for a 2 year study to "Develop Genetically Fast Growing Monosex Male Populations in Bluegill Sunfish". Their goal is to improve growth rate, eliminate the problem of prolific reeproduction, precocious maturity and their consequences. They propose this be done through selective breeding to produce monosex populations. They therorize that combining super male germoplasm with performance selected female lines should produce quality offspring. They want populations raised at two or more locations. Grant money will be $160,000 for this project (USDA funded). Results are to be published. Hopefully this will provide knowledge for growing bigger and better BG.


Wow they are only 10 years behind Bruce !! Bruce you need to give them a call - might be able to sell them a few fish and a lot of knowledge.

I think NCMike hit the nail on the head when he said :
1. Bad/No management + "normal" genetics = high probability for smaller fish
2. Bad/No management + "great" genetics = medium probability for small fish
3. Good management + "normal" genetics = medium probability for big fish
4. Good management + "great" genetics = high probability for big fish

A little more. No 1 is the most common and is reflected in most studies indicating that the biggest limiting factor in fish growth and condition in ponds is lack of food. It is very common in the overall populace but not among the people on this Forum. No 2 is IMO rare but does happen. No 3 is what the avg person with some knowledge of fisheries mgt and the desire to work some at having a nice place to fish has. No 4 is not common yet but many would like to move toward. Among people here it is much more common and a lot of us are striving to get there.

You can’t get to 3 without what CJ notes and you can’t stay at 3 or get to 4 without what Bruce notes.

I will remind again that the term “good/great” genetics must be viewed in the context of the environment into which the fish go. I have some very good CNBG genes in my ponds. They would not IMO be good genes to go into Tree Farmer’s pond. Even with good mgt they likely would result in exhibiting bad results and lower fitness for him. Good genes can be bad in the wrong place. They would make his existing genetics worse over time. A much better way for Tree Farmer to get to 4 would be , as I noted in a prior post , plenty of mgt and Condello genetics. Why not shoot for 4 from the start. More importantly don’t make it next to impossible to get to 4 or even 3 by degrading your pond with the wrong genes.
















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