Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Reed Johnson, Shortydog, yadirmanns, tbonewiz, AnthonyDLF
18,048 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,235
Posts548,313
Members18,049
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 27,543
ewest 21,241
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 14,724
Who's Online Now
6 members (DrewSh, FireIsHot, LANGSTER, esshup, Perch Pond, SSJSayajin), 1,018 guests, and 153 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#283273 03/08/12 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
So maybe this is in the wrong part. But we have a small pond outback of our house. Last year we had bass and they did fine. Its about 4 or 5 ft deep. We are thinking about RE doing it. If we were to take it to 6 ft would that be deep enough? I have no spring but I have a well that I can use. Also if I had more shade would it help?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 23
L
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 23
Being just south of NY, and claims from local fisheries that I would need more than 10 feet for trout, I doubt 6 feet would be near enough to get trout through the summer. Shade or no... They like it cold.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
It's all about how much money you want to spend on pumping your well water. Deeper isn't always more important. If your serious goal is to have year round trout, I would keep it right around 6' deep, but keep the banks of your pond steep. Minimal shallow water areas will help limit solar heating of your pond. See what the temp of your well water is. Realize the bigger the pond, the more well water you will need to pump in it to keep the temps down in those toasty warm summer days. Shade would help some, but again the biggest factor will be pumping large volumes of cold well water into your pond. You will also need to aerate that well water to increase the DO in it as well before it goes into the pond. Ask Cecil Baird for his advice, he has done what you are trying to do and can provide far more advice.

CJBS2003 #283397 03/09/12 12:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Last year when it had bass the water was around 74 at the hottest without me adding water. That was with it being 4ft deep little shade and sloping banks.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
You'll want it to stay under 68 for the trout.

CJBS2003 #283418 03/09/12 02:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
Btw well water here. Is 52-54 degrees.

CJBS2003 #283423 03/09/12 03:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
A
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
A
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,135
Like CJ sez, you can do just about anything if you throw enough money at it.
It's all about temperature and oxygen with trout, my 1 acre pond is only 8 ft. deep but with 110 GPM from a cold stream it's able to support even Brook trout.
If you have no other water source, than pumping well water would be your only option with a small shallow pond supporting trout.

Search through the forum and look for trout info on raising trout by Cecil Baird.

And welcome to the Forum Joe.



Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
So if a run a big old water pump to great a current would that help? I was thinking about running copper tubing under the pond and in the ground.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
That would be a waste of effort.

CJBS2003 #283485 03/10/12 10:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Steely Joe,

As stated earlier by CJBS2003, (and outstanding advice from the others here too that have hand on experience), smaller is better in pond size for trout as far as keeping the water cool enough in summer and diluting nitrogenous wastes. And they don't have a problem with small, as if you've ever been to a trout race way you'll notice they aren't very big.

My trout pond is only 88 by 55 feet and if it wasn't for the iron issues (this pond by it's size dilutes the incoming iron from the well) I could get by with an even smaller pond.

My pond uses a well pump of 45 gpm 24/7 seven months of the year. This keeps water temps in the mid 60's max in the hottest part of the summer. This also flushes out ammmonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

I use a calculation of 12 lbs. of trout to gpm of well flow so I can safely have and feed about 500 lbs of trout maximum carrying capacity. I've had the trout stress in the fall even when temps were cool enough, if I shut off the flow too soon, which caused a build up of nitrogenous waste. This was a double whammy as I now know that as temps fall in the fall the beneficial bacteria that break down these waste were in the decline due to falling temps. I now won't shut off flow until water gets really cold in the late fall. I've learned this by learning the concepts of the nitrogen cycle by running an RAS for other species.

My trout pond also has steep sides and max depth is 8 or 9 feet. I run a diffuser in the bottom in the center only at night in the summer to not warm temps up too much. The diffuser doesn't add a lot of oxygen but it prevents an anoxic layer developing on the bottom which would be counterproductive.

It may be overkill but I also aerate my well water via gravity by dropping it through 5 gallon buckets with the bottoms cut out and replaced with plastic screening. In those buckets is plastic media to aerate the well water and blow off nitrogen, C02, and hydrogen sulfide. This is using gravity of course after the water is pumped to the top of the buckets.

I'll posts pics when I get a chance. I'm pressed for time right now.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 01:04 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Cecil, could you extend the pipe bringing water into that pond to the bottom of the pond, therefore adding oxygenated water to the bottom of the pond whenever the well in running?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #283501 03/10/12 01:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: esshup
Cecil, could you extend the pipe bringing water into that pond to the bottom of the pond, therefore adding oxygenated water to the bottom of the pond whenever the well in running?


I would think so Scott. Only problem is I know what I'm doing has worked for me in the past and I'm afraid to try something new. grin

The only downside I could see is there wouldn't be the additional aeration I get at the final point when the water comes up at the upturned elbow before dropping into the pond. And that final point may also discharge more CO2, nitrogen gas, and the little hydrogen sulfide I have. But the question is then, is it needed?

And then what would one gain by shuttling the aerated well water to the bottom if one used a diffuser and mixed the water column? You could end up with warmer water overall this way. Due to heating during the day surface water could warm significantly and once you mixed this with the cooler water below you could end up with slightly warmer water. Perhaps not though.

All questions that would have to be answered by trying this I guess. You'll have to try this when you get the ponds dug.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 01:25 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
A simple solution is to install a tube type membrane diffuser in the well water supply line and deliver the well water, oxygenated to the bottom. There will be a greater absorption of the O2 and fewer bubbles left to rise and mix the cooler water being delivered.

The tube diffuser could easily be sealed inside the water pipe, yet remain easily serviceable. If the gasses not being released are a concern, the described method could still be used by adding the tube diffuser near the well, dumpinng the water into an open top barrel 3-4 feet above the pond surface level as a vent and then letting the unpressurized water gravity flow to the pond bottom.

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
The trout pond behind the house:



The trout at feeding time. Just kidding!



A brookie coming up for pellets with ice cover.



One of my brookies that was harvested for sale to taxidermists. The brilliant color was in part due a an astaxanthin enhanced diet from Aquamax.



Some brooks in the freezer ready to be shrink wrapped:



A friend of my parents and one of my big brooks she caught via hook and line.





Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 01:38 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
More pictures:

My twin with a brown he took out of the pond a few years back




Five gallon buckets in a series used for aeration of well water.



View of well water entering top bucket:



Water discharging into lined distribution pit. Used to move water to different ponds if needed via gate valves.



Picture showing plastic perforated piece inserted into top bucket to make the water distribute evenly into the plastic media. I will be inserting one for each bucket in the future.






Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 03:32 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
The plastic media used in the five gallon buckets:



A couple more browns:



Big rainbow out of the pond; my first harvest. 9 lbs. 9 oz.



Biggest brown at about 12 lbs. my neighbor is holding. Obviously overfed!





Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 02:07 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Rainman #283508 03/10/12 02:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Rainman
A simple solution is to install a tube type membrane diffuser in the well water supply line and deliver the well water, oxygenated to the bottom. There will be a greater absorption of the O2 and fewer bubbles left to rise and mix the cooler water being delivered.



The tube diffuser could easily be sealed inside the water pipe, yet remain easily serviceable. If the gasses not being released are a concern, the described method could still be used by adding the tube diffuser near the well, dumpinng the water into an open top barrel 3-4 feet above the pond surface level as a vent and then letting the unpressurized water gravity flow to the pond bottom.


Makes sense. However I'm still not sure that would be as effective as the open air packed column to aerate and blow off harmful gases. You also now have an additonal power expense vs. letting gravity do it.

I could be wrong though.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
Cecil...no additional costs at all if you are already pumping your water and aerating....just simply redirecting the costs expended.

Your system already beats out all harmful gasses and adds as much oxygen as it possibly can to the well water. The only "loss" is the extremely minor bit of pond water being aerated at the dump point. Dumping your water in the top of the pond and letting the "gravity" work to pull the more dense cool water to your pond bottom is also letting that cool water be warmed far more than needed. Adding a more confined, insulated space for the "agitation aeration" system you have is going to save you energy.

Extending your tubes to the bottom would save you considerable energy because the water would stay cooler, longer and less water would need to be pumped.

Rainman #283516 03/10/12 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Cecil, if your overflow drain in that pond takes water from the top, I think you might lower the temps a bit more by not using the bottom diffuser, and adding the water to the bottom of the pond. The warmest water will stay on the top, and be the first water to go out thru the overflow pipe.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Rainman #283522 03/10/12 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Cecil...no additional costs at all if you are already pumping your water and aerating....just simply redirecting the costs expended.


But my compressor is only running at night vs. having to run it 24/7 to aerate the well water with your option.

Originally Posted By: Rainman
Your system already beats out all harmful gasses and adds as much oxygen as it possibly can to the well water.


Actually no. It does not produce full saturation of oxygen and there is still some C02 in the water. I know this because I've measured oxygen saturation, and I know all the C02 is not liberated until the PH rises to 8.3 which takes a couple of day in my RAS'.

Originally Posted By: Rainman
The only "loss" is the extremely minor bit of pond water being aerated at the dump point. Dumping your water in the top of the pond and letting the "gravity" work to pull the more dense cool water to your pond bottom is also letting that cool water be warmed far more than needed. Adding a more confined, insulated space for the "agitation aeration" system you have is going to save you energy.


Probably.

Originally Posted By: Rainman
Extending your tubes to the bottom would save you considerable energy because the water would stay cooler, longer and less water would need to be pumped.


True, but you still have the situation where mixing with a diffuser even if only at night negates that somewhat. The diffuser is needed to keep oxygen levels up on the bottom where wastes and decomposition takes place. I don't think just adding aerated water is enough. I could be wrong however.

I'd love to see someone try yours and Scot's alternate with all of us collecting data for comparison.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 03:35 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






esshup #283524 03/10/12 03:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: esshup
Cecil, if your overflow drain in that pond takes water from the top, I think you might lower the temps a bit more by not using the bottom diffuser, and adding the water to the bottom of the pond. The warmest water will stay on the top, and be the first water to go out thru the overflow pipe.


That's true but I'm not entirely convinced you don't need some mixing to aid decomposition, autothrophic bacteria, dilute ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Like I say I'd rather see the data first before taking the chance on 5 grand worth of brook trout.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,543
Likes: 533
Cecil:

If you had the chance for a "do over" with your water supply system to the pond, what would you change? Since I'm going to be doing something similar to what you're doing, are there any improvements that could be made?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
esshup #283533 03/10/12 03:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
I'll have to think on that. An RAS would use much, much, less water flow and give you a bigger bang for the buck. With an RAS I could raise at least 5000 lbs. of trout with the same flow rate. I'm actually wasting a lot of well water. That is why I'd like to do RAS in the future with trout. Also biosecure and no predators.

Flow through raceways of some kind would also give you a production potential of 50 lbs. per gpm or more. The fins would not look as good as I would need them for my market though. Raceways can be in ground and lined, or just made of wood. Concrete is best but not everyone can afford them. There are even earthen raceways, but I'm not sure your sandy loam is conducive to that.

If you don't have any iron issues you may want to consider doing what Nelski does at Crystal Springs. That way you can separate the trout via species, and sizes. However if you do have iron issues -- ponds the size he uses -- would be a nasty brown from the iron and your trout would have irritated gills. Been there done that with a 25 by 25 foot pond.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/10/12 08:48 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,094
Likes: 9
Originally Posted By: Rainman...Extending your tubes to the bottom would save you considerable energy because the water would stay cooler, longer and less water would need to be pumped."

Originally posted by Cecil..."True, but you still have the situation where mixing with a diffuser even if only at night negates that somewhat. The diffuser is needed to keep oxygen levels up on the bottom where wastes and decomposition takes place. I don't think just adding aerated water is enough. I could be wrong however."


You would be delivering oxygenated water to the bottom...makes no difference if it gets oxygenated from aeration or the water being pumped to the bottom is already oxygenated...in fact, pumping oxygenated water to the bottom would lessen the high and low oxygen sat periods...reducing stress.

You could still reduce your air pump/water pump energy use by switching to an hour on/hour off approach and NOT activating your diffusers in the pond during the day. Add a small air pump for the well water and reduce your pond aeration to run from say 1am to sunrise. I think you would end up with better water quality, cooler temps and less energy/water consumption.


If your buckets are not fully saturating your well water and releasing all the CO2. I will virtually guarantee you have another chemical reaction going on that accounts for it..it would never take 2 days in an RAS system to achieve full O sats...perhaps high calcium carbonate reaction taking the O2 and creating CO2....

Last edited by Rainman; 03/10/12 06:02 PM.
Rainman #283549 03/10/12 06:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 34
So what trout would do best in a pond? What about tiger trout? Or brownies.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
dennis l ray, Earl Armstrong
Recent Posts
Sprayer Setups- metered copper
by FireIsHot - 03/23/23 03:44 PM
Newly Stocked Pond with Major Failure
by esshup - 03/23/23 03:33 PM
USING A BATTERY POWERED LEAF BLOWER FOR AERATION ?
by gehajake - 03/23/23 09:02 AM
Bluegill fishing spot recommdations
by Rangersedge - 03/22/23 09:01 PM
Pond soil test report
by ewest - 03/22/23 02:21 PM
Do I need to aerate
by Shortydog - 03/22/23 10:54 AM
Pond overflow runoff erosion problem
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/22/23 09:47 AM
Fish food recommenation?
by esshup - 03/22/23 05:18 AM
Culling small bass to feed bigger bass
by AnthonyDLF - 03/21/23 12:15 PM
Should I be concerned?
by ewest - 03/21/23 12:09 PM
What did you do at your pond today?
by Sunil - 03/21/23 06:55 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Fish ID help
Fish ID help
by PDT333, February 24
Bass from my new to me lake part 2
Bass from my new to me lake part 2
by Lunkhead, February 9
Bass from my new to me lake
Bass from my new to me lake
by Lunkhead, February 5
Alligator Ice
Alligator Ice
by Theo Gallus, December 30
Union Valley
Union Valley
by TX Chris, December 19
Pond Renovation
Pond Renovation
by ArkieJig, December 15

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5