Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Alum kicks clay's butt....again!!!

Good going Rex! SetterGuy, now what do you think of the pond?

I see Rex put in not too far from the depression that is fed from the alfalfa field. Did Bill or the brothers (I forget their name) get the new culvert installed there?

Are you starting to accumulate the cover that needs to go into the pond? It looks like the water level is staying relatively stable now, but you need a couple more feet to reach full pool.

I've got a lot of ideas, some easier than others. More rock ordered. (4"&9") I found (remember the guy that owned this property before me was a hoarder) five 8' sections of 4" PVC pipe. I'm going to cut it into 4' sections, and set them in the many 5 gal buckets laying around. Pour in concrete, and many cross pieces of 1" PVC.

I did not need a new culvert. The old ones are doing the job. The good news is the grass and wheat are filtering the incoming water, and the main water inlet is coming from the alfalfa fields is very clear.

I'm hoping (if everything works as planned) to have, clear water, a full pond, with structure in place, for early fish stocking next spring. And yes,, I think the dam is holding, and no other leaks. (Knock on wood) it dropped about a inch a week after the last rain, and that was the initial fill. Probably not considered perfect, but not enough to drain and try to fix..
Getting snow today. This will help the fescue anyway, even if it's not enough to bring up the water level.
Rex's pontoon boat is getting iced in.


(BTW Scott, I shot a buck with that Browning 270 you and I sighted in.) he wasn't a trophy but had four points on a side, so he was a shooter in my book.. (From that first stand near the house.)

Congrats on the deer!!! Ya see what happens when the bullet goes where the scope is looking? You are doing better than I am this year!

Instead of using PVC side branches in the 4" pipe, get some 1/2" or 3/4" black poly pipe. A little bit more flexible, and you can drill holes in the 4" pipe with a unibit.

Maybe Rex is leaving the boat there for structure next spring......

Good news about the culvert. My concern about a leak is around that rock that was showing in the pond bottom. Time (and water level) will tell. My pond was iced in before I left for Wi. but today it was 50% ice free.

I never saw the rock you mentioned, esshup. I do seem to recall Setterguy saying the builders covered the exposed rock and sheepsfooted it in. I walked the old drainage, well below the dam, and found no unusually wet areas. The builders compacted the clay extremely well! When I launched the boat, there were not even any tire tracks left. When I had to get into the water with my waders on, the soil under water was as firm as dry ground.

I had to leave the boat in the water because the road was very wet and soft. I found I can melt 3+ inch thick ice on the pond in minutes using the prop wash to circulate it. I may just wait till the ground is frozen to take out the boat or if the road is dry enough, remove it this weekend when temps will be in the 60's again.

This pond will stay clear (of clay anyway) for a very long time! Even if new clay enters, there is plenty of residual positively charged Ions to prevent suspension. Stirring up the bottom sediment only takes seconds for it resettle.

I did succumb to one of the dangers of spraying Alum and Hydrated lime this time. I wore a coat because of the cold weather, and the sleeves got wet. The acidic Alum and very caustic Hydrated Lime left me with some pretty nasty chemical burns on my wrists. I always rinse my hands after exposure, but the insides of the coat sleeves didn't get diluted enough....It took about 2 days before the affected skin areas stopped dying, but is healing nicely now. I do know the dangers, and do take precautions, but I wanted to post this because many like to do things ourselves and these chemicals CAN be somewhat dangerous when not paying close attention.



Right wrist and left thumb base with Hydrated lime under the skin....second picture is after 5 days and starting to heal

Rex, I've treated several concrete guys that had Hydrated Lime burns over the years, and they are bad. Old school Barbasol was the treatment of choice. How long after exposure did it take before you realized you were getting burnt?

I'd noticed near the end of the Lime application and intentionally tried to neutralize the lime with alum solution. By that evening, the pain began and it had spread considerably. This was the first time I ever had the lime get underneath the skin and spread. All I can attribute to the cause is my coat sleeves rubbing and spreading it.

I bet that's correct. The guys we treated were burnt under their wet bluejeans, and not on exposed skin.

Rex, yes, Bill and the brothers did compact it well. They had a problem with the sheepsfoot tossing a bearing, and had a problem with rocks, but overall they did a good job. The rock that I was referring to is one that's partially exposed in the pond basin, but is now under maybe 4' to 5' of water.

As weird as it may sound, the scar tissue from being burned when young had kind of spoiled me when it comes to chemicals. Having almost no sweat glands in the wrist area, I have always been pretty impervious to chemical absorption.

Rex, it does look likes it's healing up. Those first pics sure gave me the willies.
60 degrees tomorrow, let me know if you are going up to pull the boat out. I'll meet you there.

Rex,
According to my son, the water resource mgr. (Environmental Sci Mgr) the ph is around 7. Looks good, right?

What's the clarity now?

It's amazing. It looks like a spring (except for the ice, haha) I am still amazed at how far down I can see. Where before it was less than an inch.
It's as clear as tap water.

Setterguy thanks for the post. I may want to do the same this spring. But before I attempt it, I will see how things settle out in my new pond, setting at 2/3rd full now. I would like to know what was the pH prior to the Alum and lime treatment. That would determine what lime additions I would make. And where did you pick up the alum? And what is the floc log you speak of? Is there such a thing? And thanks for posting the pictures of the set up. It gives me a picture of how to mix by circulating the tank and then how to set up the spray bar. This is really helful shoud I decide to floc.

How long does an alum treatment last?

Wow - I got lime all over my face hands and arms when I applied and wasn't that concerned. Looks like I dodged a bullet, again.

Was it hydrated lime, though? That's the nasty stuff.

I did not check my ph prior to Rex doing the alum treatment. I had stocked FHM earlier in the fall and they were doing fine. The test tube I was holding up (pictured above) was after the drops of chemical were added. According to my son the color (blue) indicates a ph of around 7.
Rex provides everything needed and brings in his pontoon boat all rigged up. For me to do this on my own, would have been a pretty big task. He's done in many times, and it doesn't take him long. My pond isn't full yet either. Rex thinks there will be enough alum residual to take care of the final 4 or 5' of water to get me to full pool. I'm trying to get a jump start on spring. I want to have it ready for fish stocking early in the spring.

I've asked that many times. It's not cheap to get this done, and I obviously didn't want to waste money. The last rain we had I checked water coming in, and it was clear. Most of the water comes in through a alfalfa field. It was planted in August, but it's pretty well established. The wheat/ fescue I planted around the pond has come up nicely, so I am hoping for very long term clarity, at least in regards to the suspended clay.
My jar test indicated that the clay was going to stay suspended indefinitely.

What kind od wheat are you planting for that?

TJ, The hydrated Lime is very caustic, but when it dries quickly, it doesn't seem to be a danger. The burns I sustained were where my coat sleeves had been saturated and were in constant contact with my skin and being rubbed into it.

The original treatment to remove colloidal clay is permanent. The Alum also removes any Phosphorus that is present during the treatment from the water, permanently, as well.

Colloidal clay is attracted to the Alum/Lime like metal fines are to a magnet. Also like a magnet, only a finite amount of metal fines can be bound up within the magnetic field.

The highly positively charged ion's of the Aluminum Sulfate and Hydrated Lime that settle out in the bottom will act like a magnet to attract a considerably large amount of any incoming colloidal clay.

As to "how long" the treatment will last....That depends! After the initial treatment to clear the water, sunlight penetration will allow submerged plants, phytoplankton, and other aspects of the ecosystem to grow and thrive, helping to filter or ionically remove future incoming colloidal clay from the water. If large amounts of colloidal clay remain exposed and able to get flushed into the pond after a treatment, it can overwhelm everything and cloud the pond indefinitely again.

It's just regular winter wheat. It should start up again in the spring, and shade the fescue until it's stronger.
That's if things work the way I hope, but it's new territory for me. Getting advice from the "soils" section here on the forum.
The only question I have now, is if I'm going to mow it in the spring, or let it get to full height.

Yes, I performed a hydrated lime treatment, but only 200 lbs. Like I said, I guess I got lucky...will be more careful during application process next time.