Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain 2 acre pond, stocking forage fish ques's

Gentlemen,

Just had a recent 2 acre pond that was almost pumped dry for rennovation get completely filled again, so I need to start the food chain again. Would appreciate some recommendations, here are the facts:

Pond shape is an elongated tear-drop, with a shallow entry [1-2 ft, lots of native grasses and goat-weed since it has been dry for 9 mo's], then it goes to 3-4ft, 5-6ft, 7-9ft, then drops-off to 17-18ft. The gradual deepening lenght is 110yds x 15yds - 30 yds width, then the deep end is 40yds x 40yds with 1/1 slope..all other slopes are 30 degrees. At the entry way, there are many oak branches tied-together for "reef-like" structures...

Water clarity is 18-24" and pH is 7...when full, tons of watershed..with recent rains, spillway had 12-14" x 25ft of water going out for 24 hrs plus...at edge of spillway, installed 6 ft T-Posts with gal-wire 2"x 2" sq's 2 ft tall, then plastic coated wire mesh with 1/4" sq's...only small minnows make it thru...

No fish in the pond except some very small minnows that may have come downstream or were left in the remaining 2-3" of water in the deep end.

So, the goal is to make this a nice LMB fishing pond with HBG/C-Nose/Red-ear for the kids. I have access to fathead minnows, shiners, HBG, CoppernoseBG & RE-Bream. For now, I want to stock the forage chain, get established, then stock with LMB fingerlings...when stocked, will feed with pellets on the weekends [fri-sat-sun] - appreciate your recommendations.

Regards,
Rain

Hey Rain, welcome to the forum!

The "minnows" as you describe are generally not actually minnows(members of the Cyprinid family) but rather are just smaller usually young of year of sunfish, bass, crappies or what ever else is in any of the other ponds found upstream of yours. So the big question is, just what else washed into your new pond? We really don't know... So that is the challenge!

My advice, is to immediately stock an 800/200 BG/RES mixture per acre this spring. I would look at stocking larger than normal fingerlings as well. Leaning more towards the 4" size rather than the 2" size. The reasoning is, I am very concerned if you stock fingerlings closer to 2", they will not compete well with the already present "washed in" unknowns. Those unknowns are often GSF which have very large mouths and would love to eat baby BG and RES.

I would also immediately begin trapping and netting your pond to catch these "minnows". Photograph them and post at least a good mixture of different ones you catch on here for ID. We can let you know what they are so you have a better idea what you are dealing with. You may also want to try some angling with light line and small hooks to see if you can catch any fish. Larger "minnows" may have washed in and I would like to know what they are.

If you find you have GSF or other unwanted have washed into your pond, it will be IMO imperative to get LMB stocked into your pond immediately to begin controlling to reproduction of those unwanted species. If you wait a year or two, you may end up with a nearly uncontrollable mess. If you need to stock LMB early, I would try to stock a little larger than normal LMB, say LMB in the 6"-8" range. 50-75 per acre at that size should work well.

You can also stock GSH and FHM when you stock your sunfish this spring. However, if large numbers of unwanted species such as GSF or even small LMB have already washed into your pond, the stocking of these two may be a waste, especially for the FHM. Again, this is why it is imperative to immediately begin figuring out exactly what these unknown "minnows" are...

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress...

CJBS,

Thank you for both your punctual and detailed reply. I will both toss out some pellets and do some fishing to see what I can observe/catch, respectively.

I know one thing for sure, is that in all my ponds mud-cat eggs get transferred in by the birds. I can also tell you that if I do not see any birds consistenly working the shorelines, there is not much there...I also want to get something in there soon so when it gets warmer, the mosquito larvae get hammered quickly.

Thanks again, I appreciate the advice,
rain

Folks,

What are the best methods for catching these small minnows? I have seen these minnows in two different places: at the edge of the spillway and at the entryway, all shallow protected water. I would assume they instinctly school in these areas to allude predators...I am currently limited on my pond management tools" [nets, seines, other], so for investment purposes, what would be the best?

On the FHM's and Shiners, what ratio should I stock these? The literature said 300-350 FHM's/lb...can a pond really have too many of these?

Finally, what do you guys recommend for controlling comorants/water turkey's, besides the "lead-pill". I remember them engulfing my 6-8" bluecats when I stocked them...

thanks,
rain

First off, are you talking about Madtoms or Bullheads? Lets think about this for a minute. For the birds to transfer eggs, the eggs have to be sticky, right? Plus, those type of eggs are cared for by the parent, fanning water over the eggs to keep oxygenated water constantly washing over the eggs. Plus, those fish typically spawn in some sort of enclosure, be it a hollowed out "cave" in weeds, the bank of the pond, etc. If the eggs are sticky enough to stick to the birds feet, how do they get unstuck, and then how do they get enough O2 to hatch?

I'll bet that if you think back, the ponds that had the "mud-cats" appear in them had water flowing into them from a previous high water event, and my bet is that the fish were washed into the pond from somewhere else. They could have washed into the pond a year or more before you noticed them.

The esaiest way to catch the minnows in any quantity is by using a seine. Seines are easier to use if 2 people are involved. If you can, take a good close up picture of the side of the minnow and we can identify them for you.

As for the Cormorants, I think you only have 3 choices to stop them from having your fish for breakfast/lunch/dinner.
1) Have a person watch the pond every daylight hour, and physically chase them away when they appear.
2) Cover the pond with netting.
3) Get a permit from TP&W and use lead.

I don't think you can have too many FHM in a pond before stocking your sunfish and predators. The FHM give the fish a quick jump start on growing, and won't be able to stay establised in the pond once predators are stocked.

This subject has been argued extensively in the forum over the years. What esshup wrote sums it up quite well. Fish just don't appear out of thin air. I would ay 66% of all fish in ponds find their way their at the hands of man. Either intentionally via intentional stocking or via friendly "backyard biologist" stocking. As in throwing a few fish from the days catch at the local lake into a bucket and releasing them that way... Bait bucket releases are also quite common for some species. The other 32.999% would be through high water events or simply fish swimming upstream. Although a body of water may not seem connected to any other bodies of water, during flood events, almost all bodies of water end up connecting up with other bodies of water in some way. It's amazing how fish are able to find new homes this way. That last 0.001% is the freak events, such as the heron dropping a catch accidentally into a new body of water or the egg stuck to a bird theory. Are these events possible, yes... However, I'd go with winning the lottery over a fish community being established in a fairly isolated pond this way.

I too feel that the seine is the single most effective way to get a good idea as to what you current have in your pond. A 50' net would be preferred, but even a 30' or even 20' net could do the job nicely.

Hey Guys,

It was real windy this weekend and pretty cool too, so pond work was not too optimal...will pursue soon, tstex