Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Power failure back up for fish tanks

Just thought I'd pass this along for anyone that has fish on life support in a building or in a basement like I do.

I bought two Inverters (Tripp-lite Model APS750), one for myself and one for a recirculating aquaculture system I set up for a local high school.

You can parallel wire several batteries to get more amps (run time if the power goes out) to run AC applicances, which in my case are linear air pumps and mag drive water pumps.

According to a conservative online calculator the school's system at 100 watts will run 21.6 hours with two Group 27 deep cycle batteries at an estimated 180 amp hours.

The inverter automatically kicks over if the power goes out and even charges the batteries when it comes back on. I have such a density of fish in my tanks that they wouldn't last too long without aeration etc. Also it will keep my RBC turning so it doesn't dry out and kill the bacteria that oxidizes the waste products from the fish. What I really like is I don't have to worry if I'm asleep or not home if the power goes out.

Two things to keep in mind though: The inverter needs to be connected to an earth ground or your outlet it's plugged into needs to be. You also need to wire in a fuse block and fuse (in the case of my model a low volt limiter fast acting fuse block Bussman model number 4164 I got from Grainger and Bussman ANL125 fuse.

Last year I tried a computer UPS with a 60 watt water pump and it ran for about 10 minutes before the UPS started heating up and warping. LOL Obviously not right for the device!

Cecil,

I could use a better back up system mine consist on Praying I am at the shop, some extension cord, and a 6000 watt generator.

Yours sounds really neat, kinda like the auto back up on a computer....can you list the equip. (hp/amps etc.) you are backing up.

Maybe some pics. and a wiring diagram

Brad,

Will do. Give me some time to figure out how to use upload pics from my temporary computer. I've figured out how to do it from the net but not from the camera yet.

Puter die again Cecil?

Hey Brad... It would be a requirement to first see what you need, based on your specific devices in your operation for a "temporary" battery back up system. Could make all the difference in the world, buying some time, so you can hook that generator up without trying to do an exorcism -en- rout to it.

You see, It is not what Cecil has and needs for his OP., But what your requirements are.

TrippLite makes some, if not, the best stuff on the planet for these types of situations. But they are temporary, intermediate solutions to buy some time.

Borrowed Time!, Yeah I know! I just borrowed next Tuesday to pay for Today.

Didn't die but after the same problem three times it's time to change from a PC to a Mac. I've had it with PC's.



Excellent point JKB. Brad, here's a neat website that will help you calculate what your wattage needs to be.

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html#modified



JKB,

BTW what do you think of propane powered inverter? I saw one the other day at Menards. Not any more expensive than a gasoline generator and you don't have to keep putting gasoline into it.

Cecil:

If I had a choice between Propane and gasoline generator, I'd pick propane. Cleaner burning, and the fuel doesn't go bad. Buy the propane tank, don't rent.

Do you mean propane generator or inverter?

I think the one I saw at Menards was an Inverter. Price was $695.00 if I remember right. 1000 watts.

Definitely know about the rent vs. buy the tank thing with propane. I rented a tank once for our gas fireplace. We didn't buy enough gas from the gas company so they came and got the tank gas and all. At first the guy said, "You have some gas left we'll pay you for the gas." Then it was, "I was mistaken there was no gas left." Uh huh. I told him in a polite but terse way, "Your company will never get my business and nor my father's. My father had them come and get his and he bought a tank. He doesn't buy propane from that company either.

Propane companies have quite the racket going, eh!

It's been a while since I have looked into the Inverter type generators. They did not have propane fueled ones back then.

I went dry camping from May to October a couple years ago. I would fire up the generator (5550 watt gas) for a couple hours a day to charge the batteries and run electric appliances. Had to have coffee in the morning ya know. That thing was loud, but heck, I was in the middle of nowhere, so it did not matter.

Anyway, my sisters friend bought a 1000 watt Honda Inverter type for their camper, and WoW! that thing was quiet. You could have the thing running between two people and your conversation was no louder than what it would be at the dinner table.

When I looked into them, IIRC, the Yamaha edged out the Honda on all points. Time to look into them again.

The propane option makes them even more attractive now. I'll bet they run even quieter than the gas units. And propane engines last a heck of a lot longer than gas!

I see they have Yamahas now that run on either propane, natural gas, or gasoline -- all the same unit! With propane no fumes so you can run them in the house? I see a 3500 watt propane one at Sams club that will run for 10 hours on a propane cylinder the size of the ones you use for a grill (20 lbs.).

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=191300



And Sam's club has a 10,000 watt gasoline Genetron for under $900.00.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/catego...pane_generators

Cecil:

Yes, you can run propane ones inside, but I still wouldn't recommend it. I worked at a place where all we had were propane forklifts. One week, one started running bad, and we all ended up with headaches.

I know the price of the "off name" generators that some of the big box stores carry is tempting, but for something that could make or break one to two years of work, I wouldn't chance it. I would stick to a more mainstream manufacturer, even if it was more than 2x the price of the off name ones. If the unit breaks, finding parts may be durn near impossible 5-10 years down the road.

I did a quick search. Those are made in China. The db rating on them seems low until you look at Yamaha or Honda, which are twice as quiet. How big of a generator are you looking at?

My choice would be propane, with an auto start feature that doesn't depend on you being there to fire it up. You'll also need a automatic cut-off switch so you don't backfeed to the grid and fry a utility worker.

Excellent point and we do know Wallmart and Sam's Club are basically Chinamart and sell low end quality and seconds. Even though my brother finally got a job at Walmart after being a comptroller for a corporation (part-time minimum wage greeter) I'd rather buy something American that will put an American worker back to work.

I'm comparing and researching right now, and haven't made any decisions, but will pay more for not only at least mostly American but something I can get serviced and parts for.

The propane sure seems to be the way to. I think I'm looking for something big enough to start up the geothermal, run the well pump, a refrigerator/icebox, one chest freezer and another 200 watts for the two fish tanks. We can definitely do without the TV and the computers for a while if we had to. Lights are no big deal either.

I'm going to call the manufacturer of my geothermal and my well driller to get the watts and start up watts on those. The other stuff is easy.

Take it from someone who makes their living repairing outdoor power equipment... do not purchase any piece of equipment that has an engine "brand", that you do not recognize. The industry is becoming saturated with these units, and while some are better than others, they all can be tough, or downright impossible to source parts for.

These offshore companies are getting wise, and have purchased the rights to a couple of old, familiar companies. Names that nearly everyone has heard of. Then, they equip these units with "cloned" copies of popular engines. Look the engine over for a name, or model tag, to see who built it before putting your money down on it.

Personally, I don't see many problems with brand name generation units themselves, rather the issues typically occur with the engines that power them. If it were me, I would stick with either Briggs Vanguard, Kohler, Honda, or Kawasaki, on the engine side.

And, since this is an issue that's close to heart, I recommend finding an independent dealer who's close, friendly, and has a good reputation. You may pay a little more than you would at the box store, but service after the sale is worth a lot.

Find a good local dealer, support them, and they'll be there to support you.

Tony:

As long as we're on the subject (sort of) I have a question regarding a carb (well engine) surging on a log splitter.

Honda OHC GCV 160 motor, on a 27T log splitter. 3 years old, stored inside, used a few times, always Stabil in the fuel. No throttle, either on or off. If I don't have the choke out slightly over 1/2 way it surges. Starts on the first pull. I bought it from my neighbor that used it 2x and he always uses Stabil and good gas. I couldn't pass up the price, 50% off what he paid for it and the paint wasn't worn off of the "I" beam.

My guess is there is no carb adjustment that can be made, and it's running lean because of a mechanical restriction in the line. I ran 2 tanks of gas thru it, each with 1/2 bottle of SeaFoam with no change. I sprayed carb cleaner around the carb when it was running to see if there was any vaccum leaks - none found.

Time to pull the carb and give it a good cleaning? The 2 bolts that hold on the carb also hold on the air cleaner base.

Scott I would agree on the carb cleaning. Fuel related issues are by far the number one problem I see. If you want to be sure, start the engine, reach in and hold the throttle shaft at the carb. Hold it still and listen to the engine. If it smooths out and holds a steady speed, then the problem probably lies with the governor system. If, on the other hand, it falters, and possibly dies when you hold the shaft still, then it's a fuel restriction. (lean).

Most of the time, it's the carb. Use your torch tip cleaner, and GENTLY clean the passages in the main nozzle. That will probably cure it. However, there is one more thing you can clean.

Take a look at the idle speed screw. You may find that it threads in over top of a black "plug", with one flat side. Back the idle screw out to allow access to the plug. Pry it up with a screwdriver, it should have an O-ring on it. The plug is an air bleed, with a tiny orifice. Make sure the orifice is open.

Worst case, you replace the carb. They are available OEM and aftermarket, both types work equally well, and the aftermarket versions are very inexpensive.

Oh yeah, there is a vertical screw, in addition to the carb mounting nuts, that holds the air cleaner on. Remove the filter, and base, to access it.

Thanks! That'll be my Saturday mid-day project.