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I was told a while back I have the option of using my geothermal unit that heats and cools the house to heat my hot water tank. I was thinking if I can do that maybe I can heat my fish water for the my indoor RAS tanks in the basement. grin Of course I'd have to aerate it a little to prevent gas bubble trauma but that would be easy.

Anybody know how that works? I'll call my plumber that told me, but was wondering of anyone can fill me in on the basics.

The wife doesn't have to know. smirk

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/03/11 07:04 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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My local plumbing company that services the same brand of geothermal as mine (Water Furnace) is coming out in the near future to see if they can make it do what I want it to. Of course the receptionist was thoroughly confused when I mentioned fish tanks. LOL

I'll keep you posted if anyone is interested. It would sure beat paying for electricity for high wattage heaters if they are not needed.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/08/11 06:17 PM.

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Cecil,

We too have a Water-Furnace geo-thermal unit. Ours uses two 300-foot wells for the closed loop. The loop runs a pretty constant 53 degrees F, which produces 130 degree F water flow in our associated 85 gallon ceramic water heater. And, yes, it is essentially "free" water heating. I would think you could add a thermostatically controlled heating loop in the RAS to provide a warm and cozy place for your fish.

Ken


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Thanks for the encouragement Ken. Mine is open loop.


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Would you have a heat exchanger, or something like that?

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Would you have a heat exchanger, or something like that?


No idea. That's what I hope to find out when the plumbers come over.


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You could use a coil of black poly pipe as a heat exchanger and place it near the bottom of the tank (heat rises smile ). Hook the hot water output from the compressor (hopefully your system has one). In order to control the temperature you could use simple manual bypass valving or go high tech with a thermostatically control bypass valve setup.


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Thanks Dwight. I'll keep that in mind although it will have to go into the RBC tank as a coil in the fish tank would probably impede the self cleaning circular tea cup effect.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/09/11 08:08 PM.

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This only a thought....

Say that you were to place the coil in the fish tank with coils and hot water flowing in the same direction that the tea cup effect runs.

Isn't it possible that the flow of the hot water moving through the coils could actually enhance the tea cup effect? Even though the hot water molecules moving through the coil don't actually touch the water surrounding the coil they could still excite the cooler tank water molecules to follow around the coil at increasing speed.

As a side benefit, the tea cup effect could assist in maintaining the water temperature consistently top to bottom in the tank (no hot or cold spots).


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Originally Posted By: Dwight
This only a thought....

Say that you were to place the coil in the fish tank with coils and hot water flowing in the same direction that the tea cup effect runs.

Isn't it possible that the flow of the hot water moving through the coils could actually enhance the tea cup effect? Even though the hot water molecules moving through the coil don't actually touch the water surrounding the coil they could still excite the cooler tank water molecules to follow around the coil at increasing speed.

As a side benefit, the tea cup effect could assist in maintaining the water temperature consistently top to bottom in the tank (no hot or cold spots).



You may be on to something but the problem is the settleable solids would collect up against the tubing. That would negate the entire "teacup" self cleaning effect that moves settleable solids to the center drain. Also, it turns out I have plenty of circular flow in the tank and actually have to slow it down some for the bluegill and yellow perch that didn't evolve in moving water. More so for the bluegills. I do that with a valve that allows me to move more water to the RBC if there is too much circular flow and vice versa.

I like how you think Dwight! Keep the ideas coming! You're making me thing I could put a coil under the tank as heat rises?

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/10/11 12:04 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I like how you think Dwight! Keep the ideas coming! You're making me thing I could put a coil under the tank as heat rises?


Yes, that would probably work though the heat transfer efficiency would be fairly low compared to having the coil in the water. The floor where the tank sits would soak up a fair amount of heat as well.

Another idea would be to have a separate small "pre-heating tank", containing the coil, placed in the water flow loop, warming the water before it even gets to the fish tank. A 10 or 20 gallon "pre-heating tank" should be large enough to accomplish the task.


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How about putting the heater coil in the clarifier tank.



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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
How about putting the heater coil in the clarifier tank.


That's a idea but it could be a pain during periodic cleaning of the filter material as it would have to be removed -- but then again maybe not.


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Originally Posted By: Dwight
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
I like how you think Dwight! Keep the ideas coming! You're making me thing I could put a coil under the tank as heat rises?


Yes, that would probably work though the heat transfer efficiency would be fairly low compared to having the coil in the water. The floor where the tank sits would soak up a fair amount of heat as well.


The tank is above the floor actually sitting on cinder blocks.

Originally Posted By: Dwight
Another idea would be to have a separate small "pre-heating tank", containing the coil, placed in the water flow loop, warming the water before it even gets to the fish tank. A 10 or 20 gallon "pre-heating tank" should be large enough to accomplish the task.


I could easily direct the discharge from the biofilter tank into a smaller tank which would enter the tank via gravity. I'd have to be sure the water is well aerated as heated water can cause gas bubble trauma.

Esshup (Scott) was over the other day and had a great suggestion on conserving heat. I brought up the idea of insulating the tanks and he said that would be a good idea but I'd have to be careful about using something that could get wet in water and produce mold such as fiberglass batting. He suggested bubble wrap. I have a whole chest freezer (unplugged) of bubble wrap I've saved from shipping. I've started to attach it via duck tape. Scott you are da man!


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Bubble wrap would help some.

What about that radiant barrier stuff?

A friend of mine used it for insulating a couple of projects and claims it works really well. Easy to install.

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What about taking Dwights idea and put spacers to keep the coil off the bottom of your tank an inch so your solids still flow to the drain.


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Originally Posted By: blair5002
What about taking Dwights idea and put spacers to keep the coil off the bottom of your tank an inch so your solids still flow to the drain.


I think it would still impede the circular flow and self cleaning action of the flow but maybe not. I would also feel more comfortable heating the water in a separate tank or the RBC tank were it can be aerated via gravity when it discharges into the fish tank. This would prevent any problems with potential gas bubble trauma if the water gets heated to the point where there is danger of oversaturation of nitrogen.

The plumber was out. He took down the model number etc. of my water furnace and will do a little research.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/16/11 02:01 PM.

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Anything you put inside the tank will cause problems that you do not want.

Not the best spot in the biofilter tank, and certainly not in the clarifier.

Anything you do within the water itself (with respect to this subject) will have performance, maintenance and a larger economical impact.

The best thing to do is control the atmospheric conditions in the room itself. Your water temps can be controlled quite well and probably within 2-3F of ambient conditions even if you open a door to walk in, out or have a vent (recommended).

If you virtually have free heat with your system, that would be great!

Aquaculture Engineering 101. Insulate the room and control the conditions within the room.

Hope this helps a bit.

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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
How about putting the heater coil in the clarifier tank.


The more I think about it the more I like your idea Travis. I have to remove the filter material anyway and the coil would probably fit nicely in the 55 gallon drum and I would just pack the filter material around it. The good part is no separate tank needed and the water would be aerated twice before going back to the fish tank. Once when it drops on the baffles of the RBC and once again when it drops back into the fish tank via gravity out of an upturned elbow.


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Originally Posted By: JKB
Anything you put inside the tank will cause problems that you do not want.

Not the best spot in the biofilter tank, and certainly not in the clarifier.

Anything you do within the water itself (with respect to this subject) will have performance, maintenance and a larger economical impact.

The best thing to do is control the atmospheric conditions in the room itself. Your water temps can be controlled quite well and probably within 2-3F of ambient conditions even if you open a door to walk in, out or have a vent (recommended).

If you virtually have free heat with your system, that would be great!

Aquaculture Engineering 101. Insulate the room and control the conditions within the room.

Hope this helps a bit.



This basement room is mostly underground so it is insulated to some extent. I have also insulated the fish tank and will do so for the biofilter tank and clarifier tank.

I don't want to raise the thermostat of the house so I'll try everything else. It's set now for the low 70's which means it's cooler in the basement.

As far as venting I don't think C02 is a problem as I have a air C02 meter and the levels are still good. I also don't want to shut the room off as the humidity will probably increase significantly in that room. Right now it doesn't exceed 60 percent and there are no problems with it.

The best part of putting two fish tanks in the basement is it precludes the use of a humidifier upstairs. Humidity in the basement only goes up to marginal to bad levels in the summer if I have tank running, and by that time the fish end up going back outside. I'll either just keep a few fish in one of the systems to feed the biofilter or periodically add a few grams of ammonium chloride. Last year I made the mistake of shutting it down and had to start all over again for cycling.

No word from the plumbers but they are probably scratching their heads just like the guys at the hardware store when I explain what I need and what for. At least they don't tell me I'm crazy when I try and buy corn fertilizer to fertilize my ponds. I had a Helena Chemical supplier do that and I rose a big stink about it with his superiors.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/18/11 12:08 PM.

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I think you mentioned installing a supplemental system to heat your tanks. Easier to just heat the room in the basement with the supplemental system than the water.

No, you do not have to change the temp in the house, just keep that room at the desired temp.

Some venting would be required. Not that it is a health hazard to you, but water is a natural sink for CO2, so if you gas it out, It can go right back!

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It's a no go with my model of Geothermal. If I can recall this correctly my model only has "residual heat" when it's in the cooling mode in the summer. Oh well it was worth a shot seeing if it was an option.


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Originally Posted By: JKB
I think you mentioned installing a supplemental system to heat your tanks. Easier to just heat the room in the basement with the supplemental system than the water.

No, you do not have to change the temp in the house, just keep that room at the desired temp.

Some venting would be required. Not that it is a health hazard to you, but water is a natural sink for CO2, so if you gas it out, It can go right back!




We don't have thermostats in individual rooms. Not sure why but we have a main thermostat on the main floor and that is it. Perhaps because it's geothermal?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Sorry to hear that Cecil.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Sorry to hear that Cecil.


No problem. The bluegills are feeding like piranhas now three times a day at 73 F.


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