Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking WE -YP pond update

Hey gang,
A while back I was full of questions about stocking WE and YP in a N.W. Missouri pond. Bill Cody asked that if I decided to put WE in my pond to keep it informative.Today was the big day.

Here are a few of the things I have done to my pond since back in July. I replaced the leaking culvert pipe. When doing so, I raised the tube to gain an additional 3' of depth.This was completed on July 28, and was at full pool on Aug. 22.I only gained an additional 1/2 acre, and mostly shallower water at that. I removed 70 CC, the majority of them 3 1/2 lbs. plus.
Have removed numerous turtles, and muskrats.
I also started feeding my BG. I have fed over 400 lbs. of AM 500, and have seen a drastic improvement in my BG, and GSF.I have had more spawnings of small sunfishes, and have alot of 1/2 to 3/4 inch "minnows" in my pond. I actually caught a huge fathead minnow, huge for a fathead minnow anyway, on a small hook, and also caught a 7" GSH.I know that FHM and GSH have not been put in the pond for at least 13 years, so I apparently have a breeding population.

Today I put in WE. I ordered 350, and think that many more than that arrived to my farm. I also ordered 600 YP, and wouldnt be surprised if that were more like 650. The WE in my opinion, and am by no means a WE expert, were outstanding stock. They varied in length from 7- 10".The YP were 4-6". I acclimated the fish, and spent probably 2 1/2 hours transferring from tank to pond. Everybody swam off, and the only known casualty is the one that got lost in the bed of my pickup.
So I guess I will see what happens now!

I actually was able to transfer photo's! Pics of the YP, and nice WE, the casualty WE, a panarama of my pond, and my own personal spawn!

Jim, you got some nice fish there. Hpefully those cool water fish will do well for you in MO. Keeps us posted on the progress of the pond. don't expect the WE to grow fast. Next fall WE should be around 10"-13" and YP 8"-11". Lets see how well my 'gestimate' is for these fish.

Bill, My supplier called yesterday, and said they had a pleasant surprise. The WE came in bigger than expected, and cut me a good deal on them! I was absolutely awestruck when I saw the size of some of these babies! Some of them were longer than 10". I was excited and forgot I took my camera! Almost too late!
I will definitely keep you up to date! I cant wait til next year now! Hopefully my YP will feed before ice on!

Way to go James - that sounds like a cool fishery project. What other species exist in your pond besides CC, WE, YP, BG, GSF and GSH?

Fathead minnows, orange spotted sunfish and naturally hybridized bluegill. That's all I know of.

Does anyone know when I can expect the YP to attempt a spawn? Spring of 2013 if the Mayan calender is mis-interpreted?

I'll bet the ones that are 6" now will try to spawn next Spring.

Scott is right on as always - my YP supplier routinely has 4-6" fish in his holding tanks in Spring pull off spawns, which really surprised me. So, feed them heavy this Fall lots of AM 500 in low light periods [sunrise/sunset] to gain some growth I think you'll definitely pull a spawn Spring 2012. I'm sure you have shallow brushy cover or vegetation upon which they can attach egg strands...I don't think they are very discerning - anything seems to do the trick. Remember you can feed your cool water species YP a little later than warm water species into the Fall. Bill Cody has even documented feeding them pellets through the ICE! Crazy!

TJ:

Thanks for the vote of conficence, but I'm not always right - I'm not someone's wife!

Naughty lil' fish.They should go to college first and start a career! The nature of things. I suspected they might try,and will probably be succesful to a degree. My pond is down in a holler, and spring fed, so it's one of the last ones to freeze here.(goose hunters told me)I need to get a feeder, i dont relish the thought of freezing my arse, to feed fish!In all seriousness, thanks for the info guys!

Esshup,that's exactly why I dont have one.....or maybe one wont have me?

Update ...update. Bill Cody in a different forum mentioned the numbers an 18" CC will eat of small sunfishes. I was feeding tonight, and some channels moved in.I got me ol' trusty 22 out, and popped me a few. One floated with a whisker stickin out of the water. I rowed out to get it, and done an autopsy on it......7" walleye.......... 19" CC............Think about that when stocking.

Oh yeah, I have to brag, nailed that sucker right between the eyes! I'm proud of this old man with blurry shootin' eyes!

Thanks for the report - and nice shot !

What did you do with the CC?

Since I do not eat them, he sank......He died happy....just had a $2.25 Happy Meal!

If people realized how many fish that CC ate they might reconsider adding CC to the pond. Although predation by CC can be a good thing - it all depends. Interesting that that the 19" CC had a 7" WE in it and was still looking to eat pellets. This proves that pellet eating fish do also eat fish. Very good observation James.

So I guess it may just depend on the CC if they decide to eat the fish or not. I just wonder since most of what I have read on here they do not do much for BG control, but I think I have seen where they are supposed to be good enough for HBG, as many have stated for small ponds they recommend CC and HBG plus feed to get great results.

Do the CC take care of a high percentage of the HBG spawn?

What about CC eating GSF, have they been successful in maintaining them?

Can a CC catch a Tilapia to eat (before the water cools and slows them down)?

I just ask since I have so many CC in my pond and I have noticed that some are full of pellets and others just have empty stomachs which I find odd. Why not eat the pellets, I could understand not able to catch a fish but come on pellets, all they have to do is open there mouth and they are like Hoover Vacuums.

Just wanted some ideas on this.

It all depends on gape size.

I had previously been lead to believe that CC only eat "trash" for the most part. But then years ago, learned that minnows were excellent CC bait.I have even been told that CC were not "predators".
My thought is this. My pond had and still has a few nice size CC onboard. I was astounded at the numbers of small GSF I had.After using live small sunfish as trotline, and pole bait, and my success rate, I now wonder how many small sunfishes there would be, had there not been CC in there. Might make my current numbers seem trivial?

I know this much, these CC until they get to beyond 24" look extremely fit.Beautiful CC if you will.At 24" and above, they start getting lanky.These fish do not get like that waiting for rotting matter to drop to the ocean floor like a crab would anticipate. They are eating something, and that is fish, and lots of them. I would anticipate that the amount they are eating ebbs and flows with the age of the young. As the new young grow, they may become more difficult to catch.Or as the spawn is heavy, there's just not enough hiding places. I've been in my boat at night with a flashlight, and the sunfishes become dormant. They look like they are sleeping in the vegetation, and sometimes takes a prod to get them moving.So I imagine when there are thousands and thousands of small sunfishes... Kinda like a VW with 20 people trying to get in.... someone's hindside will be sticking out the window.

Concerning what CC can eat size wise. I do not know why, but I caught 2 CC's on my trotline, and removed them at the same time. They were both about 27". One had a very wide mouth, and the other had a more rounded narrow mouth.The one with the wide mouth, I could see it easily eating a 6" BG, if it is able to get ahold. I dont know why one had such a larger mouth than the other? Genetics? Sex?

There is good news to my story though. I released my fish into an area where I previously had very little luck in getting fish to feed.
Wednesday night ( think it was) I took TJ's advice on feeding YP at sundown....I wonder I said to myself. I threw feed out into the area my YP were released. I had some pretty good activity. I suspected it may be the YP, but had doubts. They were hitting like a small satiated BG. Last night I took some worms, and threw out some feed. Several were feeding, I cast a small #8 snelled hook with a small chunk of worm. I caught a YP! What was interesting, was I could not hardly recognize the fish. It had the stripes of a YP, but had the shape of a WE. (Remember I had never even seen a WE or a YP before Tuesday) They YP's had more of a greenish cast to them when released. This YP had the classic "yellow" color to it. Amazing what natural water does to the coloration of a fish. This is going to be so much fun!

james, a while back Theo Gallus did a study on CC gape size. I believe it's somewhere in the archives. Gape is directly related to body length, and Males have a different mouth fape vs. Females for a certain body length.

While I don't think CC are as big of a fish predator as LMB, I do believe that as they increase in size, they change their food preferences, switching over to more and more fish.

Male mature CC have wider heads and larger mouths compared to female CC.

Thanks for the clarification!

I am intrigued by a FHM that had a big enough mouth to get hooked? What size hook were you using? Even a GIANT 4" FHM wouldn't have a mouth big enough to get hooked by a size 10 hook... Makes me wonder if it is another species of minnow?

Hey Cj, I suppose it's possible to be another specie.It sure looked like a Fathead.It took me a bit to decide it was a FHM. I wish I'd had my camera. My camera is now an item I take with me every night when I go to the pond. I have to at least get pictures of my feed trained GreenBacked Heron. He now follows me around the pond looking for handouts. He just isnt there every night anymore.Here's a pic of a shiner I caught last night, at least I hope it's a shiner!

Sorry, I meant to answer your question, it was a #10 snelled hook.This baby was gnarley, I mean literall, had knots under his skin in a couple places. Maybe I had a new record FHM? .....JamesBryan LANDS WORLD RECORD FISH.......5" FATHEAD MINNOW.....He says" I was so exhausted, I fought the brute for 4 seconds before I was able to get the monster into the boat".

The photo is definitely a golden shiner. If you catch anymore world record FHM, put a pic up on here of it... Would be interested to see what it is.