Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Food to make trout flesh pink?

In October I'll get my yearly planting of rainbow trout. I normally feed Aquamax 600 and am very happy. At some point I saw a thread on here about a food that would help to impart a pink color to the flesh. I've searched and searched and haven't found it.

So, anyone know of a food that will turn the flesh pink? Any experience with it? Just wanted to be sure before I place my normal order for the Aquamax 600.

Thanks!!!

I know a guy - Cecil. I'll send him an e-mail and I should get a reply back, but it'll most likely be tonight.

Thanks eshup - I'm pretty sure he was the one who mentioned it.

That would probably have been from me. It shows up in this posting by Bob Lusk WV Pond Boss Gathering With Bob Lusk

My friend who did that is out of town right now, but I'll send him and his boss an e-mail to see if they can tell me what they were feeding the trout to make the flesh look like that of salmon.

Ken

I still like that pic of Sunil!

It's called Astaxanthin.
http://www.coppens.eu/en/products/product/trout-special-growers

Zeigler has a feed with Carotenoid pigments.
http://www.zeiglerfeed.com/product_liter...Performance.pdf

Info from a Cecil post.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=129188&page=2

Thanks AP - that is the Cecil post I was thinking of!
Now I need to see if that is still a product made by Purina.

The 5D19 AX is near the bottom of their chart, but it shows a 2 ton minimum order.
http://www.fishchow.com/aquamaxproductlist.pdf

THanks. I've sent an inquiry to my dealer to see. Unfortunately, I do not need 2 tons!

Yep. You guys beat me to it. Here's Cecil's reply:

The additive is Astaxanthin and you can get a bag of feed from Aquamax with it already added for just a little bit more in price. It's known as Aquamax grower AX 5D19. You have to special order it and it's seasonal. Interesing thing is the pellet size is between a 5D05 and a 5D06.

I doubt that Cecil had to order 4,000# of it, maybe that's their minimum batch weight and once it's made you can possibly order it per the bag?

Thanks esshup. I'll report back on what the dealer says.

Jorge,
If you can't get what your are looking for from your dealer, send me a PM. I probably can get the carotenoid laced feed from Ziglers in a #50 bag. I'm just west of Winchester, VA on US-50, if that wouldn't be too far.
Ken

May I ask a question - why do you need that color instead of original one?

Thanks Ken! That's not too far at all - I'm in Afton near Charlottesville and I drive up 81 frequently.

Have not heard from the dealer yet - I'll report back.

Grundulis - the color is 'just for fun.' I do find it more visually appealing, and I clean/eat a lot of these and serve them at a large party. If you look at the link in catmandoo's earlier post - which one would you rather eat? I'm also a tinkerer - I like to test things out.

My contacts were doing it for research to try and determine if people would pay more for trout that were salmon colored, as opposed to trout filets that are natural color. And yes, when sold side-by-side, the higher priced pink filets would sell better and for more money -- yet they were otherwise identical.

Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't the natural color of trout pink? I was always told growing up if you catch a RBT and the meat is pink it's a natural fish not a transplant? Transplants have white flesh.

Is this wrong?

Can you really change the meat color from what you feed it? That to me seems far fetched?

Yes!

You can also change the flavor to the plus or minus side.

As stated earlier, Carotene is a major influence on color in Salmonids.

You can also train fish!

Well I know you can train fish and I also know you can change flavor from what your fish eat. But color of the meat?? That I did not know??

The most natural one. Why should I eat some additional artificial pigment stuff if it is not necessary? Carrot color doesn't improve the taste of fish and the original color ain't bad anyway.


They are a bit pink but not as much as these what are sold in shops. Their color could be described as pink+grey (a bit).
Like ~10 years ago it was possible to buy Baltic salmon in our markets but now it's almost impossible - nobody wants fish in such wrong color.
About color change:
after feeding trouts with special fish food, they can change their color.
By the way, that affects taste of all these fish. I'm not a professional in all this thing but I have spoken to serious trout keepers. If the fish feeds from natural food (for example small fish) then it will taste better. This option has a disadvantage though - fish grow slower. It's bad for business...



I understand that it's very important when you are seriously in fish business. 99% of people think that if salmon type fish aren't in carrot color then they aren't fresh.
But if I had some trouts for myself, I wouldn't choose to dye them - we eat too much various food additives each day and why should I add more of them?

Found this interesting,

In the wild or on the farm, the color of a trout's flesh depends on its food supply. A naturally occurring pigment called astaxanthin, found in many crustaceans, accumulates in the flesh of salmon and trout that eat them, and this pigment is the source of the orange-red color typical of salmon. Wild rainbow trout in fresh water eat a mixture of insects and small crustaceans, which gives the meat a light pink color. Their seagoing cousins, salmon and steelhead (the latter a rainbow trout that has migrated to the ocean), eat a higher proportion of crustaceans, mainly small shrimp and their smaller relatives called krill, and have resultingly darker orange meat.

The vast majority of farmed rainbow trout get a diet based on grain and fish meal, and they have pale-colored meat that cooks up to an ivory color.

You can see this change in flesh color on Lake Tannecomo in Missouri. Their trout are farm raised and then released into the lake. The lake has grass shrimp in it. The longer the trout survive in the lake without being caught the more pink the flesh becomes. It may just be me, but the more those fish are colored the better they taste.

If they gain their color brighter in natural way, then maybe they can be with better taste too.
But I doubt that such good result can be achieved with pellet feeding. I have heard many negative opinions about that. If these fish have been fed very intensively with pellets, their taste has been compared to the taste of cotton wool Of course, it's only a comparison but it shows that there's nothing good in them

I can't speak for trout, but I find the flavor of my pellet-fed HBG to be quite acceptable. I don't taste any difference between them, and my native BG. However, my HBG are free to forage as the mood strikes them, so even though Aquamax is a huge part of their diet it is not the only thing they have available to eat.

I do hope that the CC I stocked this spring have a milder flavor, (fed on Aquamax also), when compared to my wild, non-fed CC.

I don't say that pellet-fed trouts always taste bad. The worst case is probably then when they are fed very intensively to gain weight as much as possible in a short time.
It's often used in commercial fishing ponds. Owner is interested in growing his fish as fast as possible to allow fishermen catch trophy fish and pay for them. He is not interested in what happens after that - is that fish suitable for eating or not.

I think Grundulis has a point. In Mammoth Lakes, CA, you can fish the lower lakes – easy access, large fat trout (would do a grocery store proud), “fishy” smell and taste even worse or hike 2-3 miles up the mountain- small lean trout (9” is considered large), slight sweet smell, tight and firm light tan flesh, and delicious. The only differences that I know of are that the lower lakes thaw out a couple months earlier and the trout are farmed raised and stocked and the upper lakes still have ice in June (convenient for the hike back) and are not stocked (at least 10 years ago they weren’t). My oldest son and I always chose the hike.

BTW -I have noticed that the local Safeway/Vons sells farm raised, “color added” Atlantic salmon. Does anyone know if this refers to additional dye or to the pellets that they are fed?

FCT, when I was going to the Mammoth area for the trout opener, the DNR was stocking the smaller trout in the streams around there. Do they still do that, or are the trout in the streams all wild now?

Once I saw a movie about salmon farms in Norway. Since then I seriously think before buying one
Actually they are given some stuff to get carrot color. Sometimes they take anti-parasite baths - salmons swim in some kind of chemical to get clean. And we eat all that and maybe something more...

Anyway the conclusion is - normally fish probably can't get as bright color as they have in shops. Has somebody caught wild fish with very bright color (I'm not talking about farmed fish that have been released into the wild waters shortly before getting caught).

Farm raised fish are generally far healthier than wild fish...fewere pollutants and diseases...most shows condemning farming are not letting viewers know facts, but rather pushing their own agenda....the "coloring" is most often carotene...from carrots....If humans ate enough carrot, we would turn orange also.

If we relied on wild caught fish, current demand would wipe out most species. If it were not for fish farming, you wouldn't have many fish to eat anywhere in the world now due to demand.

Esshup -I don’t know if they are still stocking the lower streams – I haven’t been up there for the past few years. Did you do any fishing in the upper lakes region (Heart Lake, Emerald, Skeleton, etc.)?

No, we stayed mainly to the streams. I did walk almost to one of the lakes following a stream, and that particular lake had RBT swimming up the stream to spawn. The trout from that lake had reddish flesh, while the stockers didn't. I believe it's one of the lakes that has Sacremento Perch in it. It was back in the mid '90's.

A good friend had a time share up there and he'd always put in for the first week of trout season.

Up here in Ontario our local fish food manufacture has the dye'd food and only costs a buck or two more than the non dyed feed. I have used it and it really only changes the colour drastically on the females. I have been told by 3 large suppliers of Rainbows for fish farms here in Ontario (there are alot of HUGE operations up in Georgian bay doing cage farming) and they are wanting nothing but females because they are better controlled in the cages and they can get the pink flesh that customers (stores and restaurants) want. This past spring I tried the food on my brookies and it made no difference that I could tell, but there flesh is already that vibrant orange color anyway!

Here is a link though to the manufacture of our food up here, I have yet to be able to find anything else here in Ontario.
http://www.martinmills.com/profishentIndex.asp
They are local for me and I can save $5-10 per bag going right to thier ware house instead of buying it from there middle man.

My Co-op wasn't able to get the 5D19 from their regular distributor, but he is trying to source it elsewhere....so still waiting to see.

Last week I was fishing brown trouts. Sad but I forgot to take pictures... natural wild brown trouts weren't pink at all. Actually they were like some herrings or something similar - hard to describe, something like brown mixed with grey.
Probably many people would avoid such fish But they were very tasty with only salt and pepper.

Oh well, my Purina dealer tried several avenues but could not get any 5D19. I'm bummed. I had him order some regular Aquamax 600 - so I'll just have happy, fat cream-fleshed trout. I'm not sure if I should bother Catmandoo to try and get the Ziegler feed or not.

Amazing when capitalism fails. I guess we are spoiled by how easy it is usually to get anything we want.

Anyway - my trout come in 2 days on Friday. Can't wait - lots of 12-14" rainbows and 20lb of golden trout. I also got some 4-5" rainbows and some 5-6" browns to (hopefully) feed my bass.

I would try to get the Ziegler feed. Nothing to lose, correct?

True. I'm one of those guys that HATES to ask anyone for a favor.....

I was able to get just a bag at a time but it's seasonal as in when they are making their batches (as Esshup eluded to). Perhaps that is why you couldn't get it? I would try again in the spring as that is when I was able to get it and I believe about this time of year it was not available (I'm not growing out trout at this time.)

Astaxanthin is not only a color enhancer but is claimed to have health benefits for both fish and humans, so it's not considered a bad thing.

That's some interesting information, but does this new guy Cecil really know what he's talking about?

Welcome Back.

Here are some of CB1’s prior posts on the topic. Good stuff!

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=193700&page=3

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=188478&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=197589&page=2

I'll give a call to a friend this evening to see if he can give me a point of contact at Zieglar. I know he just got 1500 lbs., of feed, so he probably won't be ordering any for a couple of months.

Regards,
Ken

Good information Cecil, I didn't know that. I hope all went well in picking up the trailer.

Thanks Ken.

Nice to see Cecil back, even for one post.

But, you know what they say...

No but I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night just like CJBS2003.

Thanks for the kind words.

Yep all went well. So far it's in one piece. LOL I'll be done with it tomorrow. Will get it back to you as soon as you want it back.

It's a little different dragging that thing around, isn't it? A wee bit wider than yours!

I'll send a PM with contact info. The food is actually from Pennsylvania, not from Zieglar's.

Yeah but it's a really nice trailer. Not the cheap stuff they sell at Lowe's or TSC etc.

Well, it didn't cost what those trailers cost either.

Yeah you get what you pay for, or perhaps you got a good deal by buying it used or something?

Nope, brand new. I bought it right before the price increased, and I had them add the electric trailer brakes. In retrospect, I should have had them swap out the ramp for the folding ramp that Triton offers.

I looked at both steel and aluminum trailers, and that one, for it's size has the most payload capacity @ 3500# gross. Plus it only weighs 700#, so as you know, it pulls pretty easily.

I got it! Cecil mentioned that he had found the 5D19 in the spring - so I tried my dealer again and Purina actually UPS'd 2 bags of 5D19 to the dealer. $34 a bag (2 bags) plus $60 freight. Expensive, but will be a fun experiment.

Trout are hoovering the stuff up. Don't know if it will actually effect the color of grown trout flesh, we'll see. The pellets are smaller than the 600 and it almost seems like they prefer it based on the eruption in the pond but maybe it's just more pellets per sq. foot).

At the last PB Conference, the Purina Rep said most trout farms that raise trout for restraunts use AM500 because the trout can fit more pellets in their stomach than AM600 - less "air" space between the pellets and they grow quicker being able to fit more food in their stomachs.

Interesting eshup - that certainly may be the case and they are still behaving the same after a few weeks of this feed.

I can't say that the flesh color has changed all that much, but their external coloring is definitely changed - which I think is what Cecil had said and the primary reason that he used it. Their fins are now markedly pink and their rainbow stripe is enhanced.

Neat stuff, too bad their days are numbered due to the temperature.

No, just ordered a bag at at time, but it is seasonal. Can't get it in the winter.

I caught the last of the surviving trout in late June. Many had markedly pink flesh, but not as pink as salmon. Interestingly, many still had pure white (ok grey or cream), indicating to me that some fish just didn't eat the pellets. No pictures to prove it this year.

Next Friday I get my annual shipment and these fish will be on the 5D19 pellets their entire time with me. I'll be sure to post a picture of their flesh color in the spring. I'm getting a mix of mostly rainbows with some brown, brook, and golden trout. One of my favorite events of the year - next Friday Oct 12th!