Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
KDW, kmilam, Soundguy, RyanH, Nath Morris
18,544 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics41,028
Posts558,658
Members18,545
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,607
ewest 21,518
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,165
Who's Online Now
7 members (phinfan, homewardbound, Boondoggle, GhostRiver, Sunil, catscratch, azteca), 1,047 guests, and 360 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
I thought I would provide an update on my HBG pond, post treatment with a fluridone product. (Whitecap). To recap, this pond is 2/3 acre, max depth of 11', average depth of approx 4'.
As this pond was built in the early seventies as a swimming only BOW, it had a large pea gravel beach, with a vast area of shallow water. The pondweed coverage was extensive, to put it mildly. Over the last two summers', I spent a lot of time and money trying to control the pondweed, and it's partner in crime, Filamentous algae. The Diquat, and Cutrine Plus flowed freely, but the effects were always short-lived. I could knock it down, but not out. There are 5 huge GC in this pond, they loved the grass my weedeater scattered over the water's surface, but never put a dent in the pondweed.

This past winter, I decided that something different had to be done. The usual recommendation in this scenario is to try and lessen the excessive nutrient load in the pond, usually by some sort of watershed filtration, the planting of beneficial and controllable plants to better utilize the existing nutrients, or both.

Sounds easy enough, but in practice I don't think many of us could afford to alter our pond's watershed to the degree that would be required to alleviate the problem. I certainly couldn't. I liked the beneficial plants idea, but would rather get the existing plant growth under control first.

After much deliberation, I decided to go with a Fluridone product. This is not really a poison as much as carotene inhibitor. In basic terms it "starves" the plant to death. As such, it is very slow acting. It is also non-discriminate. Good plants, bad plants, Fluridone makes no distinction, (or almost none, there are some plants that are resistant.)

The trick to making this stuff work, is to maintain a specific level, in ppm, in your water. This means that a heavy rain could wash your product right out the overflow, while the influx of fresh water dilutes the remaining concentration to an ineffective level. Not very appealing for a chemical that cost around $20-$25 an OUNCE. Yep, an ounce. Fortunately, it doesn't take all that much to treat an average pond.

I ordered the product, (Whitecap), and waited through the wettest, rainiest Spring in recent memory. Finally, on Saturday, May 7th, I caught a break. The pond level was at normal pool, and the forecast looked relatively dry for the upcoming week. I went for it. I closed off the primary spillpipe, added the fluridone, (by boat), and crossed my fingers. My aerator was running twelve hours, at night.

After two weeks I noticed that the grass at the water's edge was beginning to turn white, as were a handful of cattails that I normally keep mowed down, but had decided to leave as an experiment.

Then came the rain. I sweated bullets as I watched the water rise 10". It was no where near going over the emergency spillway, but I knew my precious 45 ppm minimum concentration was being put to the test. After a week of nightly aeration I figured whatever damage that could be done, was done. I opened the spillpipe and brought the water to normal pool. All of the grass that was covered by the higher water level, turned white. I took that as a sign that the product was, at least, still partially viable.

Four weeks in, and the pondweed was hurting. It was turning brown, and starting to fall down, or collapse. At least in shallower water. Interestingly, this is also when my new Weedrazor and rake arrived. Through their use, I was able to sample the weeds out in deeper water. they were much greener, which initially puzzled me. They were showing definite signs of distress, just at a slower rate.

Then, last Sunday, 5 weeks after treatment, I could no longer see any pondweed in water shallower than about 3', All that was left was a dirty, silty residue on the bottom. The water was beautiful, with about 6' visibility. Good for this area. Wearing a mask and snorkel, I was able to explore deeper water, and found the pondweed still there, but all brown and crumbly. I surmise that the deeper stands of weeds are slower to react to the fluridone, due to the more limited transmission of sunlight into the depths. That's just a guess on my part, however.

What is most certainly not a guess, is the FA problem. It loves it's new, competition free environment. I sprayed the edges with Cutrine Plus Sunday morning. By afternoon, it was gone.

Then came Tuesday, two days ago. I went over to feed about 6:00 pm, the water had gone from beautiful, to something that looked like strong iced tea. The fish wouldn't eat, which is unheard of from my HBG. Visibility had dropped to 24". Fearing the worst, I switched the aerator to run 24/7.
Wednesday morning was much the same. No fish piping.

Tonight, Thursday, the water looks a little better. Visibility is 30" The fish fed some, but still not normal. My other, untreated and un-aerated ponds have also darkened considerably, but not as much as the HBG pond. I'm sure there are particulates in the water from the decaying weeds and algae, and the aeration is probably stirring it up. Combine that with the normal, summertime water staining, and that may account for some of the discoloration. I'm not sure if a bloom would establish in this treated water? In addition, A couple weeks earlier I had begun to notice schools of fry in the pond. Now, with the weeds gone, I don't see nearly as many. I'm hoping that the decreased cover has resulted in increased predation by my HBG. That would help explain their diminished appetite. The situation will be watched closely.

In summary, the Whitecap did what I was told it would do. My experience suggests' that it starts off slowly, then accelerates toward the end. 16 ounces of this product absolutely took care of my pondweed problem, but for how long? I am sure it will come back, but perhaps I have a chance to get some beneficial plants established in the meantime, to help use the nutrients.

Also, I am concerned about a possible fishkill, due to a lack of any oxygen providing plants. I will move my diffusers to shallow water for the winter, to try and offset their disappearance.

Would I do it again? it's too soon to say. I'll revisit this question a year from now.

Sorry about the long post.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
Great post... Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm pondering Whitecap for a duckweed issue I'm having.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Great post SPRKPLG - I'd like to hear some feedback from our herbicide experts on your experience. I'm considering using some in my repro ponds for the first time ever and need all the advice available.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
I am curious as well with the tea stained water as I have that issue with a few bodies of water and wondering what may have caused it as I have not used any chemicals.

But like you the fish will not eat, not sure if they are eating something else in the water or sicke, dead, etc.

I hope someone can explain this a little better and let us know if there is anything to worry about.

Thanks

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update.. Friday morning, 6/17.

Water is looking better, secchi disk readings confirm 36" visibility.

Aeration still on 24/7.

water temp is 80 degrees @ 24" depth.

I did a complete walk around of the pond, vegetation is nil. All that remains are brown dusty spots on the pond bottom. The cattails are hanging on, but do not look at all well. I am unsure if they will eventually succumb to the fluridone, or recover after some time has passed.
I threw out some AM as I walked around, and generated feeding activity at all locations. Things are looking good.

I will continue to moniter water clarity, essentially to see how "sterile", for lack of a better word, the water becomes. I know that very clear water is usually regarded as detrimental to the food chain. Hopefully, I can reach a balance somewhere.

I intend to research some threads on beneficial bacteria, as an aid to try and help clean the water, since the plant growth has stopped.

I am cautiously optimistic.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
Is this the pond that has the cement "breakwall" on one side? The first one on the right as you drive in?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: esshup
Is this the pond that has the cement "breakwall" on one side? The first one on the right as you drive in?


Yep, that's the one. My HBG/swimming pond. Good memory, buddy!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update, Sat, 6/18.

Water clarity improving at an astounding rate. Secchi disk readings now confirming visibility in excess of 72"... Very unusual for this area, and this time of year.

Aeration still at 24/7.

Water temp is 82 degrees @ 24"

The HBG fed voraciously tonight. They appear to be back to their normal behaviour. The water is beautiful and weed free. I have been using minnow traps to sample fish for a week now. Tonight, all traps were empty. I walked the entire perimeter, I saw 5 minnows total. I believe the absence of pondweed, combined with the improved water clarity, is having the desired effect. Very heavy predation of small fry is occurring.

Moving forward, I will try to post an update every few weeks, to let any interested parties know how my experience with Whitecap is working out. As off now, I couldn't be happier with the product. It is still too early to pronounce this experiment a success, as I'm sure there will be wrinkles to iron out, and challenges to be overcome, down the road.

For now, I'm looking forward to taking the family swimming tomorrow!!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update, 8/14, 14 weeks after treatment.

Water has held a good bloom for the past 10 days or so. Visibility has been 18". Aerator running 24/7.

We are experiencing a mild drought, which has lowered the ponds approx. 12". I can find no trace of underwater vegetation anywhere in the pond. All cattails have died, leaving no visible trace behind. The bloom has shaded out my FA, and I have not needed to treat with Cutrine since Spring. This lack of vegetation, coupled with the lower water level, has created a smorgasbord for my LMB.

Took the kids fishing today, decided to try and harvest a mess of HBG for supper. Huge success, fish were cooperative and pondweed fouled hooks were a thing of the past.

I am feeding AQ500 once a day, in the evening, and fish have fed well all summer. All fish caught today weighed between 3/4 - 1 lb.

Swimming and fishing experiences have become much more enjoyable for myself, and more importantly, my family this summer. Very pleased with the Whitecap treatment thus far.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
spkplug thanks for that update. I have a question though. Did you have any Chara issues? If so did the whitecap work on it as well? I have a BIG Chara issue and am still wondering what I want to do about it.

Thansk,


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
RC:
I'm afraid that I don't suffer from any Chara problems, so I can't vouch for the Whitecap's effectiveness on it. I would think that since Chara is a form of algae, that fluridone would not be the chemical of choice. However, maybe someone else knows better and will chime in. Good luck!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Hey sprkplug thanks,

I know I can use Cutrine, but was just wondering if there was something else out there better. I apprecaite your response.


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
T
Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
Very interesting post. I am curious about the cattails. You said you normally keep them mowed down but left them for experiment. Did you have growth above the water surface and the product also killed them or did you have them cut below water surface to have an affect?

Also, did you remove the dead cattail or leave them in the pond after they died off?

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: tranquility
Very interesting post. I am curious about the cattails. You said you normally keep them mowed down but left them for experiment. Did you have growth above the water surface and the product also killed them or did you have them cut below water surface to have an affect?

Also, did you remove the dead cattail or leave them in the pond after they died off?


I have a stand of cattails consisting of 8 plants. I keep them mowed down whenever they reach 2 feet tall, or so. They have never spread beyond that one area. About three weeks after applying the Whitecap I was mowing and trimming around the pond, and noticed that the cattails were turning white. They actually showed the effects of the fluridone before anything else. I decided to leave them, and see what happened. They continued to grow, reaching about 3 feet tall before they turned completely white, then brown, and eventually just collapsed.

There were so few leaves that I didn't bother raking them out. Whether or not the plant, root and all, is dead I don't know. There is no sign that they were ever there, but they certainly may re-sprout next year.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
T
Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 83
Thanks for the info! Was curious how this stuff may compare to other methods of cattail control or erradication. Sounds like if someone had cattail issues and excess vegetation it could actually address multiple things at one time. Pretty interesting stuff, thanks again!

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Effects from fluridone treatments are often observed on SOME emergent plant species; cattails, flat sedge and shoreline grasses to name a few. But, several other emergent plant species exhibit little or no symptoms in association with fluridone treatments. I can't explain the reasons, other than differing levels of tolerance.


From personal experience, I can attest that a single drop of a fluridone product spilled in one's boat or truck-bed can do strange things to grasses where boat-water is drained or along side a (my) driveway after rainfall washes it out.

So, be very careful how such products are handled, stowed or transported - and definitely don't utilize a pail that was employed in the course of a fluridone application for other purposes around your lawn/garden (ask me how I know).


Also, fluridone (Sonar, Avast!, Whitecap, etc) has no activity on Chara or any other forms of algae. If anything, the growth of algae may be stimulated by the release of nutrients from decomposing plant-masses that were controlled by a fluridone treatment.


Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
So Kelly in your opinion what is the best teatment for Chara? Say I have 70 percent coverage? What would you do to get it down to 25 percent?

Thanks,


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Originally Posted By: RC51
So Kelly in your opinion what is the best teatment for Chara? Say I have 70 percent coverage? What would you do to get it down to 25 percent?
In Bill Cody's infamous words, "it depends".
Reducing 70% coverage down to 25% during this time of the year - and assuming you wish to "minimize" the risks of a DO-crash: maybe use a grapple-hook tied on the end of a long rope to drag out as much as possible - then spot-treat small areas of the remaining Chara with CUTRINE PLUS GRANULAR - staggering two weeks between spot-treatments to avoid killing too much Chara at one time. Whether two weeks is enough, and determining how large of a spot-treatment to apply is anyone's guess. It depends on your pond's dissolved-oxygen profile. If it has a high level of DO, you can be more aggressive. But, if DO is already low, any disturbance or treatment could send it below the threshold for fish-survival.
Regaining control of any plant or algal mass that covers 70% of a water-body is a tricky and risky venture any time of the year, and especially in the heat of late summer when fish are involved in the equation.

In what part of AR are you located? Anywhere near Prescott?

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update on Whitecap:

Awesome. Pond (fish) came through the winter just fine. I was worried about not having any vegetation over the colder months, but then it never really got very cold. The FA was getting bad again, so I treated it with Cutrine a couple weeks ago, and that took care of it.

NO pondweed whatsoever, after an application of Fluridone in May of last year. I had a few cattails that succumbed to the Whitecap also, and they are absent this Spring as well.

Love this stuff. Will see how long it takes for pondweed to return, but right now I couldn't be more pleased.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Great job on keeping us updated. I am going to take the $ plunge and go for fluridone treatments about 4-6 weeks prior to seining my reproduction ponds this Summer. I am worried about the available nutrient load resulting in a FA explosion and that makes seining equally difficult, if not worse, than submerged vegetation [pondweed].

Can someone weigh in on the value/usefulness of adding a shading/dye product immediately after fluridone application to help prevent an FA problem? Would be deeply appreciated!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57


Can someone weigh in on the value/usefulness of adding a shading/dye product immediately after fluridone application to help prevent an FA problem? Would be deeply appreciated!



All I know is I've been told a dye will increase the longevity of the fluridone product due to less UV degradation. It should keep the algae at bay somewhat even though nutrients may be made more available for it.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
I had very good results with Whitecap last year but unfortunately had several heavy rain events and sure enough some of the pondweed came back. I'd like to reapply but I can't justify the cost. I'm going to go back to the grass carp for pondweed and chara that I can get from a supplier that is a friend -- hopefully for a good deal. Going to add tilapia for the filamentous algae and see how that goes too.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 03/27/12 11:17 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
I've thought about heavy crayfish stocking in repro ponds and they do well in my RES/BG pond, but obviously get hammered in the SMB pond when spawning adults find them and can't get a population established. I have also considered GC but can't imagine trying to seine up a 25 lb GC while seining for YOY SMB.

I sure hope a shot of dye will help me prevent crazy FA after fluridone treatment...or I'm looking at major manual removal with rakes I guess.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
One year in, no pondweed whatsoever. However, I do have two cattails growing in the shallowest corner of the pond. I will pull them by hand and see how many come back. As I recall, Whitecap wasn't really touted as being effective on cattails, so perhaps I should be grateful for their unexpected demise last year, even if it were unintended and temporary.

It's such a pleasure to be able to see all the HBG nests',without the accompanying thick mat of vegetation. The FA, however, is another story. Something has to step in and utilize all those available nutrients, and the algae is ready and willing. We had an extremely mild winter, with very little ice cover, and the FA remained vibrant all during the colder months and really took off in the early Spring.

I knocked it down six weeks ago with Cutrine, but knew it was only temporary. I decided to try an approach that has been somewhat controversial in the past here on the forum. I treated with Cutrine again, last weekend, and added Aquashade this morning.

Rather than weigh the pro's and con's of pond dyes, which have been discussed many times here in the past, I'll just touch on some factors that influenced my decision to add it, right or wrong.

The HBG pond is dual purpose for our family. I grow fish in it, but we also utilize it for swimming, nearly every day in the Summer. Weeds don't make for an attractive swimming hole, nor do they make it any easier for my LMB to control my HBG offspring. That was the impetus behind applying the Fluridone product in the first place. No recruitment of HBG, and no weeds in the pool. A win/win situation.

This same balancing act is the reason I didn't wait for a bloom to shade out the FA..... swimming in weak pea soup isn't much fun. I know better than to think I can beat Mother Nature, but that doesn't mean I have to give up without a fight. Her plans for a BOW don't always agree with my vision for my BOW. I love my weed-free pond. I can't find any fry or minnows, despite active nesting by LMB and HBG. They will show up for a couple weeks, then disappear altogether entirely. Little to no place to escape predation. The majority of my LMB are now actively taking AQ500, despite never having been on it from a hatchery.

So, I supply the bulk of the food in this pond. I'm hoping that this will offset any decrease in natural forage caused by a lack of phytoplankton, due to the dyed water. I'm also gambling that my bottom diffuser aeration system will compensate for my lack of aquatic growth, or at least temper it enough to prevent a low DO situation.

One year after my Fluridone treatment, and all is well. Let's hope it stays that way.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
Sounds like your plan is well thought out...

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
I really enjoyed that post. Well done...and amazing as I was about to PM you for info on this exact topic. You saved me a lot of typing.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
If you put enough dye in the pond, will the kids look like Smurfs? grin


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: esshup
If you put enough dye in the pond, will the kids look like Smurfs? grin


If it warms up this weekend we'll find out! laugh

I'll say this much, I always thought Cutrine Plus was a brilliant blue, but it's got nothing on Aquashade. When they say that the concentrated solution will stain, they mean it! I got a couple drops on my arm from the wind, and when I hit it with soap and lathered it up, everything was blue.... both arms, sink, faucet, T-shirt, countertop.... any little speck that lands somewhere will seemingly make 5 gallons of blue solution when water hits it!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,607
Likes: 866
I had to go swimmin in a clients pond to remove a 1 hp pump that wasn't working yesterday. Water temp was 67.1°F. I don't know if I'd have gone swimming, but it had warmed up 10 degrees since I was first called, so it had to come out.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
C
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,458
Likes: 2
Big difference between 67 and 57... HAHA Still a bit on the chilly side in my book!

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
I'd like to apply some more whitecap but I just can't justify the upfront cost. Why is this stuff so expensive?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
dont even make whitecap anymore if you havent heard.


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,505
Likes: 3
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,505
Likes: 3
Originally Posted By: Greg Grimes
dont even make whitecap anymore if you havent heard.


Wow, no, I hadn't heard about that. What product are you selling now in its place, Greg? I've decided to wait this year to see if I need it for the watermeal and so far, nothing. But, if I do need it, what is the new go-to product?


Todd La Neve

[Linked Image from i108.photobucket.com]
Click Here to Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

1.5 & .5 ac ponds - LMB, BG, RES, YP, GC, HSB
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
I have received notices claiming that Alligare LLC has a Fluridone product available. I don't know if it is the same concentration as Whitecap, but the prices seem comparable.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
Avast made by Sepro not as much as sonar but not as cheap as whitecap.

Also new Sonar Gensis. Sorry not in fornt of me but less flouridone concentration but different formulation, cheaper but need more of it.


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
C
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
I attempted to purchase WhiteCap and was told another company bought out that manufacture of WhiteCap and now the product is called *Alligor*. I did a Google search and could not find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this and if so, can you enlighten the ones, such as myself, that is unfamiliar with the name?

Also this same company was really wanting to sell a bacteria called NT-MAX to remove any sludge for the pond as well claiming that this will eliminate the nutrients in the bottom of the pond being held in the bottom sludge. In his sales pitch he claim this product to be almost like a miracle product. Any truth to this stuff as well?


I subscribe!
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
T
Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
I bought Whitecap at the end of April from Newtechbio. You can get to the site that sells Whitecap as www.fluridone.com


Last edited by TimF; 06/05/12 11:06 AM.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Went to Newtech - ordered 16oz of Whitecap for $284. Sent me Alligare instead. Called and spoke with customer service - surprised when one of the owners fielded my call. I inquired why products were switched - he pointed out that on the website they did relate that Alligare might ship instead of Whitecap - and sure enough it did. Also mentioned that the chemical makeup was identical to Whitecap, it's merely a name change. I have no basis to verify that - so I'm allowing the benefit of the doubt. Seemed like a very solid guy and offered to return my money, but encouraged me to give it a try. So, I will...my SMB reproduction pond is about 60% covered in American and Sago Pondweed.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
That's good to know TJ. I will be very interested in your impressions of the Alligare!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
I'm going to do some calling to findout what happened to Phoenix they made Whitecap and other generics like redwing (Diquat). We worked some
Fishkills from whitecap so sticking to the folks who got the original patent on flouridone. Avast is being phased out as well I think. Sonar genesis requires about 4 times the app rate as sonar but has a better price tag. Tj u did not want to just spot
Spray the pondweed? We can it a bottle f Diquat and it fall over dead.


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
What's the matter Greg? You don't care for Chinese manufactured products? smile Well, I'm with you bro.... wink Quality-control isn't exactly one of their foremost concerns (IMO) - and that's a big issue when it comes to pesticides.
BTW- Phoenix was bought last year by UPI (the mfgr of Aquathol), but UPI doesn't intend to continue most of Phoenix's generic chemistries (which were predominantly formulated in China, as are most other "me too" generics).

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
I don't know what I'm doing...was planning on using 8 oz on my .4 acre SMB pond and 2 weeks later dumping the next 8 oz per Biotech advice.

I tried Reward on my American Pondweed last year and it snickered as it doubled it's coverage by Fall. Used surficant, followed label, etc. I'm open to direction here - I literally know less than nothing when it comes to herbicides.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
I'd suggest Aquathol K for American pondweed (Potamogeton nodosus); applied topically to the surface of infested areas. Unlike fluridone, this treatment normally allows the selective control of targeted "patches" of the plant, rather than fluridone's all-or-none approach.
Reward (diquat, which is non-systemic) will give American pondweed, and other rooted species, a "chemical haircut" - but they'll often return with a vengence.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,800
Likes: 69
Thanks Kelly!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
C
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
Alligore application update

I purchased a quart of the Alligore from NewTechBio and applied it to the 1-7/8 acre pond. I applied it about a month ago and it appears to be working up to this point. The pond weed is turning brown & white, root systems are deteriating. The pondweed covered the pond completely and was about 1/4" thick and bright green before application. I have a couple of open spots that is clear and only a small spot here and there that is still bright green, not sure how that is happening but have seen a female wooduck inside the pond from time to time. I have 3 station of diffusers with each containing 2-9" at each station running 24/7 so hopefully I wont have any issues with a fishkill.

Couppedeville


I subscribe!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
I ordered Whitecap this Spring and got Alligare. It worked very well. This pond as been 2/3 covered with lilies and pond weed for years. Kill the lillies with a topical herbicide and the pond weed would take over. The pond is perfectly clear this year. It also took care of most of the cattails as well. Hopefully it will prevent growth enough next year we can spot spray it. For the other ponds in the same property that have patches of pond weed I will try the Aquathol-K. This is a great site and I have learned a lot. Thanks

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Footnote: Alligare LLC is actually the name of a North American subsidiary of Makhteshim Agan Industries Ltd, a global manufacturer and distributor of off-patent pesticides. In Oct 2011, Alligare's parent company (Makhteshim-Agan) was acquired by ChemChina in the largest transaction ever concluded between a Chinese and an Israeli company (US$2.4 billion).

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update: 14 months after Whitecap treatment.

Weed free. It's just that simple. I definitely feel like I got my money's worth, irregardless of whatever company stirred up my particular batch of Fluridone. In addition, I added Aquashade on May 8th of this year, and have not needed to treat for FA since, although the dye finally degraded enough about 10 days ago to allow a bloom to take hold. I will let the bloom run its course before I decide on any further action. Will definitely use dye again, when appropriate to do so.

For me, the Whitecap did everything it was touted to do, and I am extremely pleased with it. Perhaps it isn't the best solution for every scenario, but in my situation it has worked extremely well, and in fact continues to do so.

The water looks beautiful, my family enjoys swimming in it, the fish are continuing to grow, I don't worry about recruitment of HBG because the yoy have nowhere to hide....no weeds.

Being able to bump a micro crankbait along the bottom for toad sized HBG without fouling up in weeds is nice too! wink


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
Sprkplug, I was searching the internet for what I can expect after a Fluridone treatment in my 2 acre pond (for DW and Coontail) on July 4th. You have certainly answered all my questions and I'm so glad it was such a success for you! Thanks for the great posts and updates.

4 weeks in and all of the weeds along the shoreline are dead. As far as the DW and coontail, it's hard to tell if there's been any effect. It appears there's no new DW as my pond was a solid blanket of it, yet it seems thinner but again no real visible change in color. I did put in 2 gallons of pond dye prior to the fluridone (allgaire)and as I've read sunlight will breakdown fluridone, since July 4th we've had little if no rain and days-on-end of nothing but hot, bright sunny days. Hopefully the dye is preventing that breakdown.

I attached a couple pictures from July 14th, 10 days after fluridone treatment.

I too am anxious to start fishing again and swimming. So I'm in hopes it's just a matter of giving it more time. And as a side-note I've been working with Ted Lea at Cleanponds and he's been fantastic to work with!

I'm patiently optimistic.

Thanks again for your great updates!

Attached Images
grassesalongtheshore.JPG Fromdistance.JPG

Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
C
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
Duck Weed Update,

I am duck weed free after the quart treatment of Alligore. The pond is completely clear without even a trace on surface. I punt in a full quart by mixing it with water in a 2.5 backpack sprayer, launched boat and put nozzle under water at each of the 3 aeration diffusers. I repeated the process until I emptied the quart. The pond is just under 2 acres but I would estimate about 1.25 acres to 1.5 acres at application. I was uncertain if I reached the minimum amount needed but it worked completely. I would say about a full 3 months to reach 100%.

I kept the aeration running 24/7 so I never experienced a single fish loss. I was hand feeding at the time since the food would land on the duck weed and never sink into the water.

First pic was slew bottom before I started building.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CyQlsIoaHmc/UD4D4nT9TvI/AAAAAAAAI_A/2U5-mstaKUA/s640/Pond%2520Pics%2520049.JPG

Second pic is about 5 weeks after application.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2YU5E1YQo70/UD4Ct_aWU6I/AAAAAAAAI94/JZSX4lBqCSw/s800/DSCF0331.JPG

3rd is about 3 months after application, this morning actually. It is over cast from Isaac coming ashore.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DeBTe_0d1LM/UD4LqD6baPI/AAAAAAAAI_s/lcE1NbLUCDQ/s800/DSCF0513.JPG

Coupe


I subscribe!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
C
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 150
First pic that did not post.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CyQlsIoaHmc/UD4D4nT9TvI/AAAAAAAAI_A/2U5-mstaKUA/s640/Pond%2520Pics%2520049.JPG


I subscribe!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Update: 18 months after treatment...

Awesome. The only greenery in the HBG pond consists of some FA, and 4 cattails....love this stuff.....

Also a big fan of Aquashade.. cool


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
S
Ambassador
Lunker
OP Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980
Likes: 15
Final update, two years after initial treatment. I'm starting to see vegetation returning, (aside from FA).......I haven't waded out to get a sample, but it looks like Egeria, or possibly (gulp)....Hydrilla. Either way, it has to go, probably the sooner the better.

I'm completely satisfied with the performance of the Fluridone. Two years weed free was better than I had hoped, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again if the circumstances required it. Matter-of-fact, I may just do that.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,511
Sprkplug, thanks for all the great updates!

I've been following this thread since joining PB last May as I had a horrific DW and Coontail problem in my 2 acre (avg 5' depth) pond and also treated at 45 ppb. The DW and CT both disappeared but the CT is coming back this year with a vengeance! Not to blame the Fluridone as I've learned that it is common for CT to rebound in the season following a fluridone treatment; from seeds that didn't germinate during the initial season's treatment. And the suggested treatment for CT is 90 ppb (45 for DW).

Originally Posted By: sprkplug
...Either way, it has to go, probably the sooner the better.... and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again if the circumstances required it. Matter-of-fact, I may just do that.


My thoughts exactly! Tomorrow I'm treating at 90 ppb for the CT along with 1 gal of pond dye that went in yesterday, because I've come too far turning this pond around (thanks to the great folks on PB) to get caught up in that stuff on every cast.

All in all I can't agree more on the success of Fluridone (mine was Alligare as it replaced Whitecap). It was just amazing watching the slow death to an eventual weed-free pond!

I have before and after pics in another thread with one PB member describing the before photo as "atrocious". And it was! The 5-weeks later photo was Duckweed and CT free.

Glad to hear you got nearly 2 full years without the weeds because as you stated, this stuff is pricey!

Also, they say it's common to have an FA explosion after a Fluridone treatment but I was fortunate it didn't happen last year (applied 7-4-12). I read where you periodically treated some FA but did your pond suffer from that "explosion"?

Thanks again Sprkplug!

Keith


Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043
Likes: 1
You think the manufacturer could bring the price down now that it's diluted and made in China.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 05/23/13 09:29 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
Likes: 2
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
You think the manufacturer could bring the price down now that it's made in China.
Yes, it’s reasonable to expect a price-decline for a relatively mature chemisty, regardless of its production-origin. However, here are a couple of points to consider.

1) The actual production-cost of any pesticide is generally irrelevant when it comes to its selling-price. Most manufacturers - of anything, including pesticides - utilize "value-pricing" models to determine the price that the market will endure, relative to competitive products and alternative approaches.
With fluridone, there are no other products (IMO) that come close to yielding a comparable "value" (ie. long-term results relative to product and/or labor costs). Of course, this applies only to specific circumstances that favor fluridone's use, since fluridone doesn't "fit" all treatment situations.
Sometimes, site-conditions won't allow or justify fluridone’s investment-risk (esp if the potential of transient water exists). In other situations, the targeting of isolated pockets of vegetation doesn't warrant the cost associated with treating an entire BOW (which is usually required with fluridone). Lastly, the potential for collateral/non-targeted impact that fluridone poses may preclude its use. These variables generally dictate the use of alternative treatments that normally prove more costly per-acre or per-season – or both.

2) The cost of any pesticide is also influenced by the mfgr’s ability to recover the unavoidable costs of research, development, registration and marketing expenses. In short, a high volume of product-demand permits the recovery of such costs over a broad sales-base of gallons or pounds.
For instance; if estimated R&D, registration and marketing costs total $50MM for a product, it is less noticable to recover such expenses over 500k gallons of sales (ie. a $100 investment-recovery fee is assessed per gal), compared to a product with only 100k gallons of sales (ie. a $500 investment-recovery fee is assessed per gal). So, volume-potential has a significant influence upon the rate of investment-expense recovery.

FYI: There are some newly introduced formulations of fluridone that appear suitable for many small pond and lake situations. They’re definitely not “cheap” by anyone’s standards, yet they’re still very cost-effective compared to many alternative treatments (based upon the duration of control, if site-conditions warrant and when water-use restrictions permit).

Look up SONAR GENESIS (liquid) and SONAR ONE (pellets) for more details.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Recent Posts
Water hyacinth woes: Dredging?
by RossC - 05/23/24 07:57 PM
What did you do at your pond today?
by Dave Davidson1 - 05/23/24 05:21 PM
Water Test Report - Adjusting PH?
by Boondoggle - 05/23/24 04:15 PM
What might be attacking our fish?
by lmoore - 05/23/24 12:11 PM
First catch from new pond
by SCFarms - 05/23/24 11:24 AM
New Pond Owner Westchester County, NY
by nycfishrescue - 05/23/24 11:22 AM
Pond Builder - Central NY State
by Bill Cody - 05/23/24 10:48 AM
Help with Bass eye growth issue
by RyanH - 05/23/24 06:37 AM
Dirt swells or artificial cover?
by Boondoggle - 05/22/24 08:59 PM
Looking for source for CNBG in South MO
by TobyH - 05/22/24 04:02 PM
Buying and Selling Land Expert in Texas
by Sunil - 05/22/24 02:36 PM
Stocking a new 17 acre, 25 ft deep pond in KC, MO
by gehajake - 05/22/24 09:55 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5