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I really enjoyed that post. Well done...and amazing as I was about to PM you for info on this exact topic. You saved me a lot of typing.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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If you put enough dye in the pond, will the kids look like Smurfs? grin


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Originally Posted By: esshup
If you put enough dye in the pond, will the kids look like Smurfs? grin


If it warms up this weekend we'll find out! laugh

I'll say this much, I always thought Cutrine Plus was a brilliant blue, but it's got nothing on Aquashade. When they say that the concentrated solution will stain, they mean it! I got a couple drops on my arm from the wind, and when I hit it with soap and lathered it up, everything was blue.... both arms, sink, faucet, T-shirt, countertop.... any little speck that lands somewhere will seemingly make 5 gallons of blue solution when water hits it!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I had to go swimmin in a clients pond to remove a 1 hp pump that wasn't working yesterday. Water temp was 67.1F. I don't know if I'd have gone swimming, but it had warmed up 10 degrees since I was first called, so it had to come out.


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Big difference between 67 and 57... HAHA Still a bit on the chilly side in my book!

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I'd like to apply some more whitecap but I just can't justify the upfront cost. Why is this stuff so expensive?


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dont even make whitecap anymore if you havent heard.


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Originally Posted By: Greg Grimes
dont even make whitecap anymore if you havent heard.


Wow, no, I hadn't heard about that. What product are you selling now in its place, Greg? I've decided to wait this year to see if I need it for the watermeal and so far, nothing. But, if I do need it, what is the new go-to product?


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I have received notices claiming that Alligare LLC has a Fluridone product available. I don't know if it is the same concentration as Whitecap, but the prices seem comparable.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Avast made by Sepro not as much as sonar but not as cheap as whitecap.

Also new Sonar Gensis. Sorry not in fornt of me but less flouridone concentration but different formulation, cheaper but need more of it.


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I attempted to purchase WhiteCap and was told another company bought out that manufacture of WhiteCap and now the product is called *Alligor*. I did a Google search and could not find anything on it. Has anyone else heard of this and if so, can you enlighten the ones, such as myself, that is unfamiliar with the name?

Also this same company was really wanting to sell a bacteria called NT-MAX to remove any sludge for the pond as well claiming that this will eliminate the nutrients in the bottom of the pond being held in the bottom sludge. In his sales pitch he claim this product to be almost like a miracle product. Any truth to this stuff as well?


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I bought Whitecap at the end of April from Newtechbio. You can get to the site that sells Whitecap as www.fluridone.com


Last edited by TimF; 06/05/12 11:06 AM.
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Went to Newtech - ordered 16oz of Whitecap for $284. Sent me Alligare instead. Called and spoke with customer service - surprised when one of the owners fielded my call. I inquired why products were switched - he pointed out that on the website they did relate that Alligare might ship instead of Whitecap - and sure enough it did. Also mentioned that the chemical makeup was identical to Whitecap, it's merely a name change. I have no basis to verify that - so I'm allowing the benefit of the doubt. Seemed like a very solid guy and offered to return my money, but encouraged me to give it a try. So, I will...my SMB reproduction pond is about 60% covered in American and Sago Pondweed.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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That's good to know TJ. I will be very interested in your impressions of the Alligare!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I'm going to do some calling to findout what happened to Phoenix they made Whitecap and other generics like redwing (Diquat). We worked some
Fishkills from whitecap so sticking to the folks who got the original patent on flouridone. Avast is being phased out as well I think. Sonar genesis requires about 4 times the app rate as sonar but has a better price tag. Tj u did not want to just spot
Spray the pondweed? We can it a bottle f Diquat and it fall over dead.


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What's the matter Greg? You don't care for Chinese manufactured products? smile Well, I'm with you bro.... wink Quality-control isn't exactly one of their foremost concerns (IMO) - and that's a big issue when it comes to pesticides.
BTW- Phoenix was bought last year by UPI (the mfgr of Aquathol), but UPI doesn't intend to continue most of Phoenix's generic chemistries (which were predominantly formulated in China, as are most other "me too" generics).

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I don't know what I'm doing...was planning on using 8 oz on my .4 acre SMB pond and 2 weeks later dumping the next 8 oz per Biotech advice.

I tried Reward on my American Pondweed last year and it snickered as it doubled it's coverage by Fall. Used surficant, followed label, etc. I'm open to direction here - I literally know less than nothing when it comes to herbicides.


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I'd suggest Aquathol K for American pondweed (Potamogeton nodosus); applied topically to the surface of infested areas. Unlike fluridone, this treatment normally allows the selective control of targeted "patches" of the plant, rather than fluridone's all-or-none approach.
Reward (diquat, which is non-systemic) will give American pondweed, and other rooted species, a "chemical haircut" - but they'll often return with a vengence.

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Thanks Kelly!


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Alligore application update

I purchased a quart of the Alligore from NewTechBio and applied it to the 1-7/8 acre pond. I applied it about a month ago and it appears to be working up to this point. The pond weed is turning brown & white, root systems are deteriating. The pondweed covered the pond completely and was about 1/4" thick and bright green before application. I have a couple of open spots that is clear and only a small spot here and there that is still bright green, not sure how that is happening but have seen a female wooduck inside the pond from time to time. I have 3 station of diffusers with each containing 2-9" at each station running 24/7 so hopefully I wont have any issues with a fishkill.

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I ordered Whitecap this Spring and got Alligare. It worked very well. This pond as been 2/3 covered with lilies and pond weed for years. Kill the lillies with a topical herbicide and the pond weed would take over. The pond is perfectly clear this year. It also took care of most of the cattails as well. Hopefully it will prevent growth enough next year we can spot spray it. For the other ponds in the same property that have patches of pond weed I will try the Aquathol-K. This is a great site and I have learned a lot. Thanks

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Footnote: Alligare LLC is actually the name of a North American subsidiary of Makhteshim Agan Industries Ltd, a global manufacturer and distributor of off-patent pesticides. In Oct 2011, Alligare's parent company (Makhteshim-Agan) was acquired by ChemChina in the largest transaction ever concluded between a Chinese and an Israeli company (US$2.4 billion).

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Update: 14 months after Whitecap treatment.

Weed free. It's just that simple. I definitely feel like I got my money's worth, irregardless of whatever company stirred up my particular batch of Fluridone. In addition, I added Aquashade on May 8th of this year, and have not needed to treat for FA since, although the dye finally degraded enough about 10 days ago to allow a bloom to take hold. I will let the bloom run its course before I decide on any further action. Will definitely use dye again, when appropriate to do so.

For me, the Whitecap did everything it was touted to do, and I am extremely pleased with it. Perhaps it isn't the best solution for every scenario, but in my situation it has worked extremely well, and in fact continues to do so.

The water looks beautiful, my family enjoys swimming in it, the fish are continuing to grow, I don't worry about recruitment of HBG because the yoy have nowhere to hide....no weeds.

Being able to bump a micro crankbait along the bottom for toad sized HBG without fouling up in weeds is nice too! wink


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sprkplug, I was searching the internet for what I can expect after a Fluridone treatment in my 2 acre pond (for DW and Coontail) on July 4th. You have certainly answered all my questions and I'm so glad it was such a success for you! Thanks for the great posts and updates.

4 weeks in and all of the weeds along the shoreline are dead. As far as the DW and coontail, it's hard to tell if there's been any effect. It appears there's no new DW as my pond was a solid blanket of it, yet it seems thinner but again no real visible change in color. I did put in 2 gallons of pond dye prior to the fluridone (allgaire)and as I've read sunlight will breakdown fluridone, since July 4th we've had little if no rain and days-on-end of nothing but hot, bright sunny days. Hopefully the dye is preventing that breakdown.

I attached a couple pictures from July 14th, 10 days after fluridone treatment.

I too am anxious to start fishing again and swimming. So I'm in hopes it's just a matter of giving it more time. And as a side-note I've been working with Ted Lea at Cleanponds and he's been fantastic to work with!

I'm patiently optimistic.

Thanks again for your great updates!

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grassesalongtheshore.JPG Fromdistance.JPG

Keith - Still Lovin Livin

https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0
(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure)

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Duck Weed Update,

I am duck weed free after the quart treatment of Alligore. The pond is completely clear without even a trace on surface. I punt in a full quart by mixing it with water in a 2.5 backpack sprayer, launched boat and put nozzle under water at each of the 3 aeration diffusers. I repeated the process until I emptied the quart. The pond is just under 2 acres but I would estimate about 1.25 acres to 1.5 acres at application. I was uncertain if I reached the minimum amount needed but it worked completely. I would say about a full 3 months to reach 100%.

I kept the aeration running 24/7 so I never experienced a single fish loss. I was hand feeding at the time since the food would land on the duck weed and never sink into the water.

First pic was slew bottom before I started building.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CyQlsIoaHmc/UD4D4nT9TvI/AAAAAAAAI_A/2U5-mstaKUA/s640/Pond%2520Pics%2520049.JPG

Second pic is about 5 weeks after application.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2YU5E1YQo70/UD4Ct_aWU6I/AAAAAAAAI94/JZSX4lBqCSw/s800/DSCF0331.JPG

3rd is about 3 months after application, this morning actually. It is over cast from Isaac coming ashore.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DeBTe_0d1LM/UD4LqD6baPI/AAAAAAAAI_s/lcE1NbLUCDQ/s800/DSCF0513.JPG

Coupe


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