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#261804 06/12/11 09:48 PM
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Ok it appears that my fatheads I have in my 300 gal tank are now spawning.

Is there anything I can do to help them avoid being eaten by the adults?

I have some floating plants and other stuff to hide in but the adults can get there to.

Also how fast do they tend to grow, it looks like they are eating the algae on the side of the tank so I think they have a food source, but can add something else for them to eat if need be.

Just wanted to know.

Thanks

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Drop in a couple of pellets and watch the fun.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Fatheads eat anything... If you are just looking to feed them, the cheapest goldfish flakes will work.

If it's just fatheads in your tank, they are less apt at eating their fry than shiners. But if you have GSH in your tank, you will have little chance of the fry making it.

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I have been feeding the adults both goldfish food and GFC as that is what I have.

I think they may eat algae as ell as the sides seem to be getting clean and the water is clearing up.

I do have a few GSH and 1 Tilapia in the tank so I am sure the fry are just going to be food, but thought I would try to help them out if possible.

How long would it take the fry to get to about an inch or so?

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They won't ever cause they are gonna be eaten.

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Ok if I remvove everything but FHM how long will it take to get them to an inch, or larger.

I wish I could just catch the fry and feed them to my Pumpkin Seeds in the house.

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1-2 months I'd guess...

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Is it true most FHM die after spawning?

Also what is the life span of the FHM?

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They are not Pacific salmon, they spawn more than once before dying.

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This is another reason you do not believe everything you read. Just something I had run across.

Sounds good to me.

Maybe I can make some sort of net or breeding box and put the FHM in it to breed.

Just in case I can not get all the GSH out.

Thanks

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I may just try to grow out the GSH since they are eating all the fry anyway.

So my question is if they are currently 3-4 inches now, how big do you think they would be 4-5 months from now?

If I can get them large enough I may be able to stock them in one of the ponds that do not have that many fish, or LMB in them to get them established.

Thanks

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They might put on another 2" maybe 3 if you are lucky.

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That may give them a fighting chance to make it once I release them to the pond.

If I can not find any Tilapia to put in the tank I may just get some more larger GSH and grow them out the best I can.

Wanted Tilapia but may be running out of time and having issues finding some.

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Ok I just put 2 small Feeder Gold Fish and 2 Chinese Algae Eaters in my tank, along with about 5-10 feeder guppies.

Do you see any problems with these fish being added in with the FHM, GSH, and possible Tilapia if I can source some?

Thanks

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Are you serious?

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Yes, why?

I thougt gold fish worked with everything, and algea eaters are always needed.

Am I missing something, if I need to get them out let me know.

Thanks

Last edited by MRHELLO; 06/16/11 11:56 AM.
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Please let me know if I have issues with what I have put in the tank so I can net out anything that should not be in there. I am not an expert on fish by any means so all help is welcomed.

If what I did was stupid with the fish I put in there then tell me what it was and what I should do to avoid this issue in the future, I would rather be called names and fix the problem rather than let something unravel that could have been avoided.

Thanks

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Nothing is wrong, just sounds more like an aquarium than a spawning tank.

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Well that makes me feel better, I thought maybe something was going to eat all my fry up. I put the algae eaters in to help clean some of it up and possibly food that is not eaten either.

Plus I just wanted to add some color for my girls it is easier for them to see them, I did not want to put them in but for less than a $1 it keeps them happy why I look for the fry.

The FHM fry are growing and it appears some may make it as they are staying up around the top, not sure where the adults are (GSH & FHM both), plus there should be a 5" Tilapia in there some where but can not see it either.

Nothing is coming up to feed for some reason, not sure if the are getting enough to eat from the algae or what.

I have put in both goldfish food and Game Fish Chow.

They were eating like crazy before the spawn.

Now if I get any tilapia to put in there that may be a different story, I am sure all the fry will be gone and the feedings will start up.

I need to find a net with mesh fine enough to dip some of the fry up, I want to feed some to my small sunfish.

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If you're really serious about raising FHM, then the only way to do it is a monoculture. If you want to try and raise some FHM fry in an aquarium, keep at it. But, I suspect you won't have much success.


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They seem to keep having them in the tank I have and a few are already big enough to dip up in a minnow net. This is nice since I wanted to put some in to feed my sunfish.

Plus they seem to be cleaning up the sides of the tank as you can see where they have pecked at it when they eat, plus some of the adults 3+ inches and about an inch or so tall.

Some of the largest FHM I have seen. I will just have to wait and see if any ever get large enough to fish with by this fall.

Either way I am enjoying messing with them and just happy to see they spawned at all.

Thanks

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I thought something was wrong with my fish as they are not comming up to eat anymore.

So I waited and watched the food sink and about have way down where I could not see it any more the swarm of fish came out to attack the food.

So not sure why they will not feed on the top any more but that is the case.

Thanks

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I've had that happen but it is usually temporary.

When it is bigger fish, I have occasionally found that I had trespassers/poachers.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I can just see it now, pull in from a 10 hour day at work and see a few guys with some nets going after the 1 Tilapia I have in there.

Even though it would not make me happy, it would be a sight to watch.

Again they prefer to hit the food as it sinks, I feed them GFC and Goldfish Flake and they act the same with both.

At either rate they hammer it once at least 6 inches under the water.


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Or a heron perched on the side of the tank.


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I am surpised but I have yet to see any type of bird trying to eat anything.

The fry stay at the top so would be easy to get.

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My water is finally starting to clear up, not sure why but I can actually see all the fish in it now, and the 1 Tilapia that is in there is really fat.

He chase a few of the FHM and GSH around, it is funny.

Kind of shy when I throw in the GFC though, so not sure what it is eating.

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Now for what ever reason my Nitrite levels are high, everything was working just fine so not sure what happened.

Are there any plants that may cause a problem with this?

I have Water Hyacinths and also some other pond weed I pulled from our pond to give the fry some cover, but it sure does smell bad.

I am thinking about taking it out as I am not sure what it is and if it may be hurting the water more than it is protecting the fish.

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Ok I am needing to add some more air to this tank, are there any experts on here to give some advice?

I would consider making something myself if someone has ideas, or could just buy something as well.

The tank is 300 gallons, and has a few hundred fish in it, or should unless more died then what I thought when I stocked them, kind of hard to count fry.

Thanks

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With 300 gallons, just about any minnow tank pump ought to work. Are you exchanging the water?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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When you say minnow pump is that like an agitator the bait shops have?

I also have Water Hyacinths in the tank, probably taking up 70-80 % of the surface area of the tank, would this cause any problems?

I think it helps keep the water cool, and filter it some of the algae etc. out, but if it is taking oxygen, or other good stuff from the fish please let me know and I will tank some if not all of them out if need be.

I have not changed it as much as I would like to, we have Chloramines in our city water so I have to shell out some money for the stuff to remove it, unless someone knows where I can get some for a good price.

Or if there is anything else I can do to clean my water.

If it was chlorine I am sure it would evaporate off in a day or two with these hot temps, but the city thought they would change and the water has not been the same since. (Nasty stuff)

Any ideas?

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I know very little about raising fish in tanks. It is my understanding that only water evaporates.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Get a large double valve air pump from a pet store with the largest finest bubbling air stones they have. That should work fine. I'd be changing 1/3 of your water per week. With that the water hyacinths shouldn't be an issue.

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Just wanted to make sure the Water Hyacinths would not be a problem if there were too many. I started out with just 20 plants 2-3 months ago and now the tank is covered, and I have some in a tub above the water to help filter even more and to create a water fall back into the tank.

Was not sure if they help with the oxygen or take it out of the water was my concern as well.

I may consider selling a few of the plants to recover some of my cost of the plants, plus they just keep growing and make it hard to feed the fish.

Although when the fish do come up to peck on the food, it makes it a little easier to catch them as they get trapped in the root system of the plant.

Thanks

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They don't add nor take O2, but they do help remove nutrients. They were used in water treatment plants to help clean the water.


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well I think I need to figure out some how to add more oxygen, and remove solids.

I thought my 1300gph pump would pick more of them up but I may need another one or something else.

Need to get my Nitrites down.

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Ok my water has a ton of suspended material in it, not sure why my pump and filter are not taking it out.

Any ideas as that I could do to help remove this material?


Also they other night my pump slowed down do to my filters pre filter being so dirty, so I just shut it off since it was so later at night and work on it first thing in the morning.

To my surprise the water seemed really clean, and then I noticed that everything that was suspended had fallen to the bottom and covered the tank. Looked to be an inch or so deep (not sure though)

What is the material on the bottom, waste, algae, bacteria?

Would it be best to just let this settle and leave it there, or figure out some way to remove it?

If needing to remove it what should I use to do so?

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Anyone have any ideas, I want to make sure I do not start killing my fish.

Thanks

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You should be managing that tank like it was an aquarium. Filtering, removing waste, etc.


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Well with an aquarium I would completely drain the tank and add new water.

But with 300 gallons that really is not an option right now, plus our water has chloramines not chlorine or I would just fill up some buckets and another tank and let it sit for a few days to gas off.

Are there other ways to get chloramines out of the water besides using the $300 bottle of remover?

Also my homemade bio-filter is made from PVC and filled with Bio-Balls. Should I ever clean the Bio-Balls when they get too dirty or would that just kill all of the bacteria and my cycle would have to start over?

My pre-filter in my 1300 gph pump clogs about every day or two, should I just remove it and let the water go strait to another tub I have filled with foam and water hyacinths to filter the water as well?

Or should I just leave the pre-filter in and clean it every 1-3 days or when the water flow is low coming out of my bio-filter?

Thanks

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vitamin c and air to remove the chloramines

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If the bio filter is getting plugged up, either the pre-filter isn't doing it's job or the bio filter is way too small. It sounds like the pre filter needs to be bigger. I'd be cleaning the pre-filter as often as needed so it didn't slow down the water flow and think about building or getting a much larger one, plus getting (or building) a larger bio filter. I've seen pre-filters for 300 gallon RAS tanks that were made from 55 gallon barrels and they still needed cleaning every month.

If the filters are working properly, you shouldn't need to be doing 100% water changes.


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Ok just got my two Agitators in and hooked one up last night. Seem to be working pretty good for now as there were not as many fish piping this morning.

My question is how long should I run the agitator?

24/7, mornings, evenings,

Should I hook both of them up or would this cause too much water movement?

Please let me know ASAP as I turned it off this morning for a little bit to give the motor a rest. But can turn it back on at lunch if need be.

Thanks

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"Seem to be working pretty good for now as there were not as many fish piping this morning."


If you still have fish piping at the surface, I'd run it longer, 24/7 if necessary.

Do you have a qater quality test kit? Something like the Master Kit would be very handy to have:

http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/form/kits.htm


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I have something like the 5 in 1 strips. I had tested it before and sure it is not any better.

The Nitrates and Nitrites were high.

I kind of expected it to happen with the number of fish I have in the tank and the home made bio filter probably is not large enough for the load. I need to figure out a way to haul water from a pond or lake or something to remove the chloromine from our nasty city water.

I have the filter pump up and back out like a shower to help with air, been running a smaller aerator, and now have these agitators which will probably add more than the other two combined. I only have one running now, have to figure out how to mount the other and get the cord to the power.

The was testing fine when we had all the rain as I would be able to exchange up to 50% of the water as the new rain fall came in.

I did notice a FHM had died last night, the Tilapia were pecking at it, not sure if they will eat it or not or I may just take it out of the tank if it is still floating. If it is already on the bottom I am sure either the Plecostomus or the crayfish will eat it.

Thanks


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Anyone have experience using the following:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ultimate-Water-Condi...=item3cada7233b

I just got some from a friend and was going to give it a shot, to do a partial or full water change.

But wanted to get some advice from someone that has used it before.

Thanks

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I haven't used it, but it looks like what you need.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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I need to read up on it a little more to see how much to use for what I am doing and how long to wait before adding my fish back in.

I wonder if I could add it to the water already in the tank and then ad some city water?

Also do you think it would help the current water just to add some of this stuff to it?

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Have you thought about a carbon block filter? I don't think there is a better way to remove chlorine from water before you put it into your tank.


Brian

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Where would I get one of those?

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Hey there. If you don't have any external filtration yet you'll want to get some. Here is a link on how to make one. http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm

Also whenever you see nitrites and nitrates spiking STOP feeding. Do a 50% water change. And add water conditioner.


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Is this cost effective vs. a biofilter?


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i'd avoid water conditioners if you plan for any of these fish to get into your food chain
a good filtration system will alow you to avoid water changes, and can be as simple as a pumping the water through buckets of gravel that you can throw some seeds in

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The water conditioner is to remove chlorine. If you are topping off with city water. If you don't use it you may kill off the beneficial bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrites and nitrates. Then you will be worse off.

Note, this is for tanks and small ponds less than 500 gallons.

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if you're "topping off" with city water, i've had no problems adding 30% chlorinated water to my tank..
the only time i had a problem was when i left the hose on filling the tank, i'm sure i did a complete water change, and only lost a couple fish..
chloramines are another matter entirely

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We have chloramines now, thanks to the city, I can not stand the water now.

What about the conditioners are bad that you would not want to eat the fish? How much of the conditioner do you think gets into the fish?

Do you really think it is any worse than any other contaminants in our rivers or any other nautural water source?

Thanks

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those products don't really "remove" chloramines, they cause them to unbind into chlorine and ammonium ions, which reassociate into salt NaCl - oxidizing reactions that can affect DO levels and pH

the main ingrediant is Sodium Thiosulphite, from what i've read on that, i'd avoid it until i knew much more..

vitamin C has been used to remove both chlorine and chloramine, but i'll have to search for quantities

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