Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Aquamax 500 vs 600

I just got my Texas Hunter DF 125 feeder (thank you Greg Grimes!). I haven't had the time to assemble it yet but hopefully will be able to get to it by the weekend.

I'll be feeding the bluegill in a 3 year old pond that has LMB, BG, FHM and GSH. Should I go with the smaller Aquamax 500 or is 600 OK (my local feed store only has the 600 in stock but can order the 500).

Either size is the same recipe, the 500 is smaller. If the fish are used to eating smaller food, or haven't been on food before I would use the 500. If they were eating the generic farm store fish food, then 600 will work.

I mix mine 50/50 so different age classes can eat.

I like that idea.

I ordered a bag of the 500. Should have it by the weekend. I'll get 600 next time around and mix it w/ the 500

I read somewhere..? Fish can actually eat more of the 500 due to its smaller size filling all the voids of the stomach.. Anyone heard this? Ive been feeding the 500 for 2 months and all ages are eating it well..

I may be the one that said that. That's what the Purina Rep said at the PB Conference in reference to feeding trout. He said the trout grew quicker because they could fit more food in their stomach of the smaller pellets - less "air" gap between them.

Makes sense too me..

That may be true, but fish exert more energy rising to the surface more frequently to eat smaller pellets. This is part of the concept behind Largemouth formula. Fewer trips to the surface to get your calories.

From my presentation at PB IV – Fish Nutrition – Applied Science to Small Waters

See the red text wrt this thread.

Bioenergetics is the subject of a field of biochemistry that concerns energy flow and transformation through living systems.

Growth, development and metabolism are some of the central phenomena in the study of biological organisms. The role of energy is fundamental to such biological processes. The ability to harness energy from a variety of metabolic pathways is a property of all living organisms. Life is dependent on energy transformations; living organisms survive because of exchange of energy within and without.

Living organisms obtain energy from organic and inorganic materials. For example, lithotrophs can oxidize minerals . In photosynthesis, autotrophs can produce ATP using light energy. Heterotrophs (including fish) must consume organic compounds. These are mostly carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. The amount of energy actually obtained by the organism is lower than the amount present in the food; there are losses in digestion, metabolism, and thermogenesis.

Energy Budget ---- Inputs = Outputs + Growth


Because fish growth often is limited by food availability, supplemental feeding is a logical tool to improve the condition of fish in small impoundments as the energy cost for bluegill to feed on pellets is small relative to the high caloric intake, which can be 4-5 times greater than those fed natural foods (Schalles and Wissing 1976). Substantial increases in the standing stock of bluegill in ponds that receive pellet feed have been recorded (Schmittou 1969) and, in lakes, pellet feeding has been found to increase the number of large bluegills (Nail and Powell 1975).

These results indicate that total fish production and production of bluegill were each increased approximately 75 to 80% by supplemental feeding in 19 months after stocking (Schmittou 1967)

Previous studies demonstrated that feed in excess of 10 pounds per acre per day in bluegill ponds was not utilized. Some accumulated and decomposed, thus depleting the supply of dissolved oxygen which resulted in fish kills (Schmittou 1967) .

the rate of growth of sunfish can be increased by short-circuiting the food cycle, thereby producing harvestable size sunfish in a shorter period of time than would occur under natural conditions (Carnes 1966).

The pellet size should be approximately 20-30% of the size of the fish species mouth gape. Feeding too small a pellet results in inefficient feeding because more energy is used in finding and eating more pellets. Conversely, pellets that are too large will depress feeding and, in the extreme, cause choking. Select the largest sized feed the fish will actively eat. Addition of supplemental pelleted feed did not contribute to the rate of growth of young shad, but did increase the growth and spawning frequency of adults.

So your saying it's pointless to feed LMB? Lmb feed definately ain't 20-30%?

Just being a smarta**

Just to be clear so others understand --- it still helps to feed the LMB 500 and big BG also. It’s just not the most efficient way. It is extra food/energy at little to no cost in energy used.

So since I am now switching from GFC to Aquamax in a few weeks (they have to order my food) I need to decide what I want to feed so they can order so some help quickly would be nice.

Based on the fact that the size of the food is really the only difference in the two, what should I look for in my pond to determine the one to use?

Just a small recap of my pond to get an idea of the fish and sizes of them or should be in there.

My pond is maybe 1/4 acre.

Stocked with:
HBG
CC
LMB
RES
BC
FHM
GC

And let’s not forget the natural abundance of GSF.

Anyway back to what I want to know is should I use 500 or 600 and why do you think one is better than the other for my situation?

Should I consider 400 or would that be a waste of money?

Thanks

Well...

Of the eight species you listed, I believe that the HBG, CC, GC, GSF, and MAYBE the LMB, will be the primary consumers. And since you don't really want the GC to eat the food anyway, you can eliminate them from the list. You will probably have some LMB that will learn to take the feed, but I'll bet their numbers will be few.

That leaves HBG, CC, and GSF. How big are the fish? How many of each?

Based on the size of your pond, and the species that are present, I'm betting you have a sizable population of smaller fish.

IF IT WERE ME, and I was determined to switch from GFC to AM, I would go with the 500.

A bigger fish can always eat smaller food, not so the other way around.

It may not be optimal foraging for some species, but it is better than nothing.

I believe ewest once said that the fish food pellet size should be close to the size of the fishs' eye that you are targeting to feed.

Yes I need to pull as many small fish out as I can, may even try to build a trap and see how many GSF I can get out, I was thinking the LMB would hammer them down quite a bit, but sure it will take time. If they were at least 6 inches I would take them out to eat.

I may just have to try some smaller ones if they are at least thick enough to cook.

If I had a larger feeder I would just get both and mix them together and see which one they take to better, but that is not an option.

Since the price is the same I just have to figure out what I want to do. First I was told they could not get 500 so I was going to get 600 and hoped it worked ok.

Now yesterday when they checked on availability they can get either making my decision a little harder.

Thanks

Would there be any benefit to just using AM 400 since it has higher protein content, the price difference is only $3 a bag?

Also can someone tell me what size fish 400, 500 and 600 should be used for?

Always keep in mind that all fish 4" long do not have the same size mouth. So if you want a good 'guesstiment' for pellet size a fishwill eat measure the width of the fish's eye. This width comes real close to the ideal hard pellet size for that fish. Fish can eat larger sized soft or hydrated pellets compared to hard dry pellets.

The following pellet size fish length chart is for LMB, SMB, YP and trout. As menetioned a larger fish can easily eat a smaller pellet.
http://aquamax.purinamills.com/aquamaxfishdiets.htm
One Pellet company's opinion and Cody modified: For LMB, SMB, YP, Trout - NOT BG & HBG
Pellet---------------Fish Size
2mm 3/32" ------------= 3"-5" fish
2.4 -2.7mm 1/8" -------= 4"-6"
2.8-3.2 mm 3/16" -------= 6"-8"
4 - 4.8 mm 1/4" ------- = 7"-10"
5 - 7.1 mm 5/16" -------= 9"-12"

Now looking at this makes me think I should even consider AM 400 instead of the other two based on my fish size.

Or not go over AM 500 anyway for now.

But I guess since I am manly Feeding HBG, CC, GSF - AM 600 would probably be too large correct?

Would AM 400 be too small, or wasted protein for the fish I am feeding.

I think I have now decided to either go AM 400 or AM 500 based on the info above since most of my fish with the exception of the CC are not 9" yet.

I know I have a few that are 7"+ but many below that.

So would someone recommend the best for my situation?

Also since I am currently feeding GFC can someone tell me what all sizes of food are included in it?

Thanks

Just use 500... Simple as that.. Most of the first bag will be wasted getting the fish accustomed.. If they don't eat it get smaller.. But I have 2-4" bluegill eat as much 500 as they can possible fit in there gut..


Don't over think it.. If you go 500 and dont like the results go smaller. And big fish will eat more to get full..

So do you think it will take them a while to get used to AM 500 going from GFC. I would think that the fish would eat it just because it hits the water not knowing it changed from GFC to AM 500.

Should I try to mix it with GFC at first make sure?

The only reason I was considering AM 400 is that for another $.06 a pound I would get extra protein.

I think I will just order 2 bags of AM 500 then, I just want to make sure since it will take 3 weeks to get it.

I should start going through a bag in that time frame soon.

Thanks

500

Ok I broke down and bought some 600 becaue they had it in stock.

Get it home and it is molded.

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

Does it have a short shelf life or something?

The seller should stand behind the moldy 600 Aquamax feed (AM). Take the receipt and some moldy feed back to them for a new bag of feed. If you have problems report the incident directly to Purina Mills. Moldy feed is often the result of improper storage and/or very old pellets. AM stored in dry conditions rarely gets moldy within a 16 months. AM feed bag always has the manufacturer or production date printed on one end of the bag (usually bottom w/ colored tag). Always look for this date when buying the feed. Customer beware and leary of buying feed older than 6-8 months. IMO AM should be used within 8-12 months of production date. I have purchased AM older than 12 months at a discounted price for feeding to my minnow pond. It has never gotten moldy even after I stored the feed for another 6-8 months (total 20 months). Refergerating it helps lengthen the shelf life and maintain quality esp of the fats, fish meal and vitamins.

500...!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah I took it back and the person I need to talk to was not there, may try again this afternoon.

I am to the point of getting my $ back and going else where.

Thanks

Well I am going to order some new AM 600 from the place I usually get my GFC. For what ever reason AM 500 is not on there sheet anymore so I would have to get:

AM 300
AM 400
AM 600

So I guess I will just have to try the 600 for now.

Does anyone think I should just stick with GFC instead of AM 600?

Or go with the AM 400 instead?

Just want to get them started on this better food to see if it will make much of a difference.

Thanks

Are you hand feeding ? If so get some of both GFC and AM 600 and mix them around in a bucket and let them sit for about 15 min. Then feed. The GFC will absorb some of the fish oil from the 600.

AM300 is a sinking feed

Fred -- I'm not sure your new signature represents "middle age." I guess that you, George, Dave D., and few others of us who are "senior citizens" need to start using your codes!

K?
Gotta go! MNC

Ok I give up..

This will be in a feeder, I have been using since last year. Went with GFC last year and up til now do to cost, but since so many use AM 500 I was going to switch.

But since the feedstore here can not get it my options were 400 or 600.

So I have to choose one of them or stick with GFC.

Just wanted thoughts since 500 was not available
Thanks

I've been feeding (for the past 2 weeks) AM600 on a small pond. Even the 2" BG peck and push the larger pellet around until it's soft enough for them to eat it.

If GFC and AM are the same price, I'd stick with AM even tho the pellet size is larger. I wouldn't feed sinking food.

Pull the trigger and buy a bag. The longer that you wait, that's all the less that the fish will be eating.

Ken, I can't relate to any of those acronyms. Maybe you and Fred.........

I am going to go ahead and order 2 bags since it takes 3 weeks to get it. I have plenty of fish that can eat it, but like you said the smaller ones may just have to work a little harder.

I may even mix in a little GFC just to help the small ones out, or at least to use it up.

I just wish they could get AM 500 as it seems to be what is used the most on here and everyone that uses it loves it.

I have to prepay so it will be ordered this afternoon.

Thanks for all the help.

If the ones you mentioned are available,,, so is 500.. Unless there trying to just sell old stock they want to get rid of..

Be sure your feeder will handle 600 - some won't.

I am just saying what I was told, it is no longer on there price sheet, so maybe they can not get it from their supplier.

I hope my feeder will throw it, I guess I need to find that out.

Does GFC not have the same size pellet included in the six sizes it has in the bag?

Does GFC not have the same size pellet included in the six sizes it has in the bag?

No 600 is bigger than any pellet in GFC.

Well I went ahead and ordered a bag of 400 & 600 until someone can work out the issue with the 500.

I hope the 600 works in my feeder; otherwise I will be doing a ton of hand feeding.

I know the 400 will work and I may mix it with my GFC, and also the 600 if it works.

Will keep everyone posted, and hope to track down some 500 soon.

Thanks

I think you will be OK with those 2.

Either way I will make them work, just wont get any more if the feeder jams up. I just hope it does not take much over 2 weeks so I can get them on it. Once it gets real hot, I will cut back my feedings.

PS- test feeder with smaller amount so you don't have to shovel 50lbe out if it don't work

Even though I already thought of that, I sure appreciate you giving me the advice. I figure I will put in about a 1/4 - 1/3 of the bucket full and run a test from 3-5 seconds holding it up.

I hope it works, may even run more than one time to be sure. If no problems I will either fill it up with the 600 or mix the 400 and or the GFC with it and be on my way for a few months. If the fish do ok with it may stick with the 600 if not I will go to 500 if I can find it or just go back to GFC, and or GFC/400 mix.

Thanks for all the help.

I got a question for the guys.. Do you think feeding 600 will deter some of the smaller fish from the pellets do too the larger size?

Sorry to threadjack

Nope. They will nibble at it as it gets wetter. I've seen 4 or 5 all chewing on the same pellet.

Very much new to this forum, love any help I can get. Same issue really, I found out a few things about AQ in my area ( deep in the Ozarks of MO ) 1. They appear to price it as if they were selling off their mothers jewelry, and 2, the order takes so long to come in that based on my 60 years of age, calculates out to about 10 more bags I can get delivered before I croak!!

I mis read that last article in PB and ordered 2 bags of 600, since I already have many fairly large BG and HB, and after over a month of waiting, the first 2 bags came in yesterday. I already had a second feeder set up, first one is full of floating catfish food which everything in the pond has been eating for the last few years like it was their last meal, The six 30# + GP I have clean every single pellet that is not caught by everything else, something I did not know they eat.

I never should have bought any GP 6 years ago, neither pond has any aquatic life to speak of and their never is ( or was before I put them in ) any kind of algae problems. After I realized my mistake, I assumed they would starve to death, instead, any guests we have that look out over the pond and happen to see one or more sunning near the surface run in screaming that we have alligators in the pond!! How they got so huge, so fast, in fairly small ponds, back when I wasn't even feeding, in a place with any apparent food source for them in beyond me. But they have sure learned to adapt and are the single most efficient fish I have in the pond for cleaning up all the floating food, although watching them trying to eat it is both comical and elegant.

I ( incorrectly, failed to read again ) assumed that the 600 would be just a tad bigger than the 500, and still smaller than the CF food, but when I opened the bag this morning and loaded the feeder, I was surprised to see the pellets were actually half again larger than the pellets I have been using. Unfortunately, the massive rains our part of the country got last month caused both my ponds, which are connected together, to overflow twice ( yea, I know, very poorly built, that is another topic, my fault again, broken back put me on disability at age 49 and shut down my income) and I lost thousands of small fish, both times. I picked up a few handfuls and they appeared to be just about everything!! I guess it was part of my spring hatch.

At any rate, for what it is worth, my feeder flung out the feed like it was a fastball from the pros, and even though it was just a 1 second test, many BG of all sizes gave it a shot, and did exactly what others have seen, pecked at it till their heads hurt!! I saw many a pellet drug down by a fish the size of my finger, only to float back up a few seconds latter. Nothing wasted though, did not take long for 6 huge slow, shadows to show up slowly and cleanly plucking them up one at a time. I pre paid for 6 more bags of 600 before I saw the size of the pellet, I wish I had waited and had 500, I know many of my small BG, the exact fish I am trying to beef up, simply cannot access the food yet. But, I am very impressed how quickly my otherwise finicky fish ( for that time of the day ) were willing to immediately attack the AQ, something they will not do for the standard food I have been feeding them for years.

Sorry if I used the wrong abbreviations, I read them but I have the memory of a 3 striped Asian garden snail, courtesy of the pain medicine they have in this pain pump buried in my side. I need help with my ponds, and I will try to post in the appropriate places, Sorry I took so much space!!

Catbird, the BG will peck at the AM 600 until it softens up enough for them to eat it. If the GC (Grass Carp) eat all the food before the BG (or other fish) can eat it, then try ordering a few bags of Stubby Steves pellet baits. Catch a few of the GC, and they will realize that the food pellets aren't as good to eat as they thought.

Thanks Esshup, I will give that some thought. I really don't mind the big guys cleaning up that much, they seem to be doing me a favor. For some reason, despite their huge size, they seem intimidated by the large cats, and even the other fish of any size. They stay back from the feeding frenzy, never breaking the water like all the others, and the catch the floaters that have broken away from the main area ( which they avoid ) and I suspect help prevent any overfeeding on my part.

One thing I thought was a bit odd, I do need to do so much more research. My pain levels were so high this last 4 years that the ponds had very little attention from me, but I am doing considerably better now and I am somewhat amazed to find that my GC ( along with everything else in the pond, including the albino CC,) have spawned each year and I continue to have baby ( well, 12-15" ) GC, a fish that I was not aware would reproduce in a fairly small pond with very little attention given to it.

In fact, I will post in a more appropriate spot on the board with my concerns that are kinda silly to say, but I actually have to much of a good thing in to many ways and I do not understand why. I have been doing to many things wrong over the years, some out of ignorance, many out of inability to physically or financially respond properly. And yet, year after year, nearly every aspect of the whole system remains excellent or even improves.

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I have been reading PB for to many years to know this can go on forever. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out, I appreciate all the advice I can get!!