Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose New pond Please help with ideas

Getting real close to completing a 2 acre +/- pond here in southern Missouri. The lower half is complete and I have started putting in the fish structure. Now that the pond is getting close I can start finalizing plans for stocking fish. That is where I would like some ideas and help. I do not want the traditional lm bass, bluegill, and catfish. I would like to get creative and a little outside the box. My family and friends love to fish and I would like to use my pond to provide entertainment as well as a food source. I have developed some ideas from reading your forums during the process of constructing the pond, which, I would like to thank you for all the ideas that have helped me along the way. I would love for this pond to be a panfisher's dream as well as having ample opportunities to hook a fighter. What I had in mind was Hybrid stripers/crappie walleye/yellow perch and redear/hybrid bluegill I would also like to try a few tiger musky. I realize the hybrids, walleye, and musky will not reproduce but figured they would be good at managing the panfish. What do ya'all think? Is this a good combination or does anybody have any other ideas? Also i am going to start stocking fat head minnows as soon as the lower end starts to fill this spring. How much water do I need for the minnows to survive and begin to reproduce? I would love to hear your comments and ideas as well as the number of fish i should start out with. Thanks....Jeff Ozarkstripers.com

More info about my pond.
2 acres +/-
3/4 acre at least 18 feet deep rest of pond average depth 8-10 feet deep
No fresh water just runoff to fill
14 acres of good drainage all grass no livestock
14 foot tall island in center of deepest area with stairstep banks
Clay bottom and banks
planting baldcypress on island to help shade and evergreens on west and south facing banks
irregular shape lots of drop offs and contour changes

Sounds neat. There have been reports of HSB controlling crappie but there's not a lot of real history on it. At some point, the hybrid bluegills will pretty well disappear. They spawn but erratically. The redears also spawn but only annually. So, at some point, your panfish will be crappie.

I'll leave specifics or other thoughts to those in your region.

Really hard to say how a combination like that would end up... However, there isn't much forage mixed in there. As Dave already mentioned, HBG are limited spawners and RES spawn only once a year. The YP will provide some forage, but they themselves are predators as they get larger. Crappies will be a challenge to manage as some years they'll be very successful in their spawning and other years they won't have any success at all. Just seems to me, you're really lacking in the forage department. Perhaps the addition of GSH would help, but you've got a lot of predatory mouths to feed. If you had pellet trained perch, that may alleviate some of the problem. HSB should be pellet trained as well. The HBG will be pellet trained and if not, should easily take the pellets. Stocking tiger muskies will lead to a lot of your quality sized YP becoming musky food... The same can be said of many of the walleye to stock. A 36" tiger musky could eat a 12" walleye that you just paid $4 for from a hatchery to stock. Strongly consider if you really want tiger muskies in your 2 acre pond. If you do stock them, keep it to 1 a year or every other year...

I really like to idea of going outside the box. However, when you do that, you just won't know what the outcome will be with any certainty... If you do something outside the box, keep great records so you we all learn from your experience.

Welcome to the forum! Will you be feeding the fish? That's one way to really get them larger than typical pond fish, quicker. Going with your goal of a panfishers dream with the chance of hooking a big 'un, at first thought I'd go with HSB/YP/WE/RES/FHM/GSH and a few Tiger Muskie. I'd definately make sure my forage fish population was established before stocking, and I'd also make plans for cover that was specifically in place for the forage fish hiding and spawning.

I wouldn't go with crappie, although I if I really, really wanted to put crappie in there, I'd take a long hard look at Magnolia Crappie. There's been too many examples of Crappie overpopulating in smaller ponds. I think of Crappie as more of a predator fish than prey because of their early spawning habits and predominately fish diet. I don't think the predators would target crappie because of their shape and spines. They'd key in on the more fusiform shaped fish, YP/WE/HSB (if smaller). That't the problem with the predators, you can't tell them "just eat the Crappie and leave the others alone".

I'd do some research (like asking here) as to the the pro's and cons of stocking HBG vs. good genetic BG. I don't know if the temps are warm enough for you to stock CNBG.

I don't know if the predators in the pond would be able to control BG/CNBG, or if adding SMB to the predator base would be enough. Typically a large panfish pond will have a large number of predators (i.e. LMB) to keep the panfish population down.

HSB, WE, TM, HBG wouldn't reproduce enough to keep a viable population, so you'd be restocking. I'd start and keep a detailed log book with fish removed to keep tabs on population numbers of the hybrids.

With the new pond, I'd call Andersons and look into the 250,000 GSH fry. I believe if you have a new pond with few predators, and a good bloom going, they would do well.

Thank you for the feedback. I had not thought through the tiger musky just thought it would be a nice novelty but the thought of them eating my good perch and good walleye sounds more turning loose a finned poacher than a novelty. They are off the list! I have begun adding the fish habitat with the goal of protecting the forage like using large cedars laid down on the bank to keep them tight i have placed them in shallow water trunk towards the bank leading down towards deeper water. I also have around 75 wooden pallets to construct pallet pyramids so that only smaller fish can get in as well as numerous other small christmas tree cedars and pines placed throught the pond in groups of three. The gsh sounds great and i will definetly add them. When can I start stocking GSH and FHM. I do really want the crappie and the perch in the pond as they are one of my favorites. Would it help to start out stocking larger HBS caught from another body of water. We have an excellent HBS fishery not to far from here and with tanks in my truck I could catch numerous five to six pounders and get them to my pond in a short amount of time during the early spring while the temps are cool. Is this a good idea to help control the crappie numbers. If so how long do I wait before stocking them and how many would you put in. Also thought of implementing a slot limit for the crappies on the pond. Has any one had any success with this?

I am not really familiar with many of the bluegills out there but just know that they can become a real problem. I had chosen the RES and HBG after reading numerous article (mainly on here) regarding the potential for large size and the benefits of RES for controlling the crustaceans which in turn control the parasitic worms and grubs. Also the fact that they do not reproduce quickly seemed like a big plus for not getting out of hand. I had planned on supplemental stocking of these along with HSB from time to time to keep them going. Knowing what I would like to do with my pond is their something else you would put in there in place of these? Also I love your idea of smallmouth bass in my pond but will they do well? I had not planned on supplemental feeding but will look into it to see if it is something I can afford.

Absolutely nothing about a pond is affordable. Somehow we just do it.

I think I have heard of 2 people who had success with crappies in a small pond. And, that was at that moment in time. I've never heard of anyone with long term success with them. They belong in a lake and that's where they are best fished for.

Crappies are a nightmare to manage. I know of just a handful of ponds that have had long term success in producing quality sized crappie. IMO, quality sized crappie are fish 12"+. I'd say 10" fish are good angling and 8" fish you start getting good eating... IME, many small ponds fail to have a naturally reproducing crappie population. Small, is less than 2 acres. Crappies as has already been mentioned are early spawners. In smaller ponds, the time of year they are spawning is very volatile. One day it's 70 degrees and the next it's 35, that's the nature of late winter, early spring spawning... In a larger BOW, the larger volume of water can handle these wide temperature swings better. In a smaller pond, not so much and this is IMO what leads to little or no successful spawning. The water temps swing too much and the eggs fail to survive. It's in these smaller ponds where crappies couldn't reproduce that I saw some HUGE crappies grown. My biggest crappie I've ever caught came out of a 3/4 acre pond and was just a hair over 3 pounds. The crappies in there never reproduced.

You may have heard others mention "magnolia crappies". In case you're wondering what the heck they are, it's just a fancy name for hybrid crappies. white crappie X black crappie They are fairly new to the hatchery world and private pond industry. Hybrids do occasionally occur in the wild where both species occur together. Cecil Baird(fish taxidermist extraordinaire!) says that some of his biggest crappies he's seen have most likely been hybrids. Magnolia crappies are not sterile and reproduce, but it is thought the offspring they produce are inferior and easily preyed upon. So the thought is, other predators in the pond will eat them all. You simply restock new Magnolias every year or two to keep their numbers up. This may be an alternative to consider if you absolutely must have crappies in your pond.

If you don't want hybrids my next best advice is to wait for the pond to really get established. In this I mean wait 3 or 4 years to stock the crappies. This will allow the HSB, WE and if you go with SMB them as well to get larger and be biggest enough to effectively prey on young crappies that are produced.

Most of the successful crappies ponds have large numbers of smaller very hungry LMB to prey on the YOY crappies. The few crappies that don't get eaten by the LMB, do better and reach decent sizes. Make sure if you do stock crappies, they are black crappies. White crappies have an even higher fecundity than black crappies and are more piscavorous. Black crappies can do well on mostly a invertebrate diet, while white crappies like fish.

I would really make room in the budget to feed. It really makes a huge difference in the quality of a fishery, especially in smaller ponds where biomass is limited.

Ok guys thanks for all the info. Thanks to the snowstorm that has given me three days to do nothing but read all the forums and articles on your site. Got to confess I had no idea there was that much to it and I have also got to say I am blown away by how much detailed info there is in your forum. With that said I can tell by past forums that I am really going against the grain in regards to stocking my pond. That just means I am going to need all the help I can get with this. But here is what I am thinking.
First I will keep records of everything

Oops wrong key;)
I will keep records of absolutely everything and I will be feeding as you have suggested. I would like help figuring out numbers and timing of what to stock. I figured that with no water except for runoff it would take a long time to fill my bow and during that time I can be stocking the FHM and GSH and feed them. Do I want to stock anything else at this time. Is 30 lbs of FHM and 250 000, GSH enough to start or would you double that so I could stock HSB SMB YP WE sooner I know to wait on crappie like you suggested. And assuming my bow is at least 3/4 the way full and my water checks out at what ratio would you stock the other fish. Would it be better to stock all at once or divide it up over three years?

I am very interested in following your progress with this. I too have chosen to go with fish not as common to my region and hope years of research and the brains on this forum help me make it a success. You will have to manage this pond aggressively, but if you're up for it, the rewards could be immeasurable. Good luck to you and I look forward to updates on your project.

Oh yeah forgot bout the HBG RES. Would you stock these at the same time as the other forage fish or wait. I also thought about supplementing with threadfin after the predators are up and going. Is that a good idea or is it possible to have too much forage. Thank you again for helping out a stubborn newbie.

You can stock all of your sunfish at the same time.

Since you are in Missouri you probably won't have much success with threadfin shad. They die off when the water temps get around 42 degrees.

Thanks I will keep posting for sure and also plan on aggressive management. I have a great friend who is actually building the pond for me( I help with what I can but he is the brains behind constructing it) and he is more than willing to help keep the fish in check. How is everything working out for you and your bow. What fish did you go with.

I'm going with SMB, YP, HSB, RES, and possibly a few WE. I will be feeding as well and continuously stocking FHM and GSH. I have been working on my <1 acre pond for 2 years and unfortunately did not get a chance to do much work last summer. Kicking myself for that, but I will get at it full steam ahead when the ground dries up this spring/summer. In my area you can't find anything but LMB/BG waters for hours, so I thought it'd be fun to go with something different.

Thanks Chris i did figure the threadfin would be goners when the water cooled but was still wondering if they would be a good supplement for adding in the spring to take pressure off of my other forage fish. The concern listed above was that I was not going to have enough forage fish to support all of the predator fish in the pond. I was trying to find other ways to increase the forage fish without adding more breeding predators to the equation. At first thought was just too add more GSH but after reading some of the PB articles I found out that even they are predatory when they get older and it sounds like the FHM have a hard time keeping their numbers up in a pond full of minnow eaters. So I am going to increase the amount of forage cover and would like to find ways to supplement the forage fish during the peak feeding months without increasing the permanent population. What do ya think

I do know what you mean there. I use to live about an hour north of here and there were three great crappie ponds up there that i used to fish. But since moving down here all you can find is LMB and CC ponds. Not much on them. I love to hit the big stripers and walleye when i go to the lake but have kids who all love to fish and want a place that i can fish with them after school and catch good quality fish. We live about an hour and a half from every major lake around here and all my kids have fished before and they are a little older and want quality fish. So thanks to a friend making my dream of a good sized pond come true I can now have a place to have friends and family over where we can get together and have a quality place to fish in my front yard. I realize it is going to be fun and frustrating at the same time but man will it be worth it. Good luck on completeing your pond and keep in touch so we can share notes.

We all share the same dream on this forum. You're very fortunate to have the opportunity to fulfill yours. Why stop at one pond?

After looking into it I will definetely do a supplemental feeding program. Is there any brand of feed you recommend or I should steer clear of. Also do you know of any place to get the hybrid crappies? I can not find any supplier close to me that offers any kind of hybrid crappie. How many would you recommend stocking? Thanks for your advise and help

Actually we are building another one or Actually redoing one I tried to build with a skid steer years ago. We have more clay than we know what to do with so we dug out my epic failure and redid it. Now if it will only stop snowing we can start trucking the clay over that we dig out of the big pond and get the small one finished. It will be a little less than an acre and probably be about eight feet deep. Rodney likes LMB so we are going to make it our LMB and BG pond but its main goal is providing water for our deer and turkey. Lack of water on my place has always been my managment failure for deer and turkey during the hot and dry months. Thats all about to change;)

Was it something I said???

I live in the St Louis area and supply quite a few Hybrid Crappie.... If you are going to the Conference in April, I may even be able to have some there for you to take back with you.

That would be great if my pond is ready by then. We are still digging trying to beat the spring rains but I am not sure if it will have enough water at that time to stock them. I am hopeful that a few good rains will put enough water in it to get the forage fish started but that is all I expect I'll be able to do til fall. Hopefully i'm wrong. But I will definetely get a hold of you when it is time.

Also Im very interested in the blue talapia. I know they would not survive but I am looking for more forage for all my predators and am always looking for something different. how large will they get by fall if everything is right in my pond and i am feeding? Will they be big enough to eat?

Some of the Blues that I got from Rex last year were big enough to eat right off of the truck!