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#235417 09/22/10 07:36 AM
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Will a high water table mess up a lined pond?

I was hoping for a ground water pond due to the normally high water table, but this year both test holes have been dry. This is also the first year in 11 years that the sump in my parents basement has not kicked in. Normally they have two pumps running, which this year has been good for them.

I have also looked at some neighboring ponds and they are very low or dry. Last year you could poke a stick in the ground and hit water.

Not wanting a dry hole in the ground, I am entertaining a liner. I wont really get the pond I want, but at least it wont be dry.

My friend is going to be out next month with his backhoe to remove some monster stumps in my garden area, and rough in a small pond that will be lined.

Maybe one more stab at a test hole (was 8ft) down to 16ft or so.

We have also had normal rainfall this year. Where did all the water go?

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OK I got a couple more.

How steep of a slope can you go with a liner?

Is there any type of sand binder, short of cement, that will allow for a steep slope?

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Thanks All, I have it figured out now. smile


Last edited by JKB; 09/26/10 01:04 AM. Reason: removed mod delete
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I would have loved to help JKB but I have no personal experience with liners. My soil is so dense with clay one could make pottery out of it.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Thanks Cecil,

As long as I do not drain the pond under high water table conditions, the liner should be fine, otherwise the ground water may lift it out.

There is a sand binder product for building swimming pools that will allow one to sculpt and do vertical side walls. I do not know the name of it yet, but you mix it with sand and water. It doesn't harden up but will stand quite firm. My sister told me how their pool was installed and that is 10 ft deep.

The garden pond is going to be 30ft x 60ft x 8ft deep. 3 sides will be almost straight down and the entrance will be sloped, cause my dog will be in it all the time.

I came up with a garden layout I like, and funds are on the rise.

It sure sucked to live in MI these past three years!

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JKB,

Not sure if it's true, but I've been told you can get by with steeper walls with a liner once the pond is filled? Anyone know? Believe it or not I have vertical and near vertical walls on my production ponds that are holding, although there are some areas I need to add some limestone rip rap for stability. The idea was to keep weed growth down but I can assure you it made no difference.

With steep walls like you're describing, and you had a good ground water well supply, you could keep it cool enough via flow through in the summer for trout. My trout pond is steep walled about 8 feet deep and 55 by 88. With 45 gpm's 24 /7 during the hottest time of the summer my surface water temp never went about the mid 60's. If I had had a liner I would not have had the weed problems I did. If you went with a smaller pond in surface area you could get by with even less flow.

One possible problem I've heard with liners, is air trapped under them for some reason. I do know Stoney Creek has some kind of one way vents you can install. BTW, Stoney Creek has a lot of experience with liners, and I'm sure they'd be happy to answer any of your questions. Their prices are pretty decent compared to that other supply company. Tell Cheryl Cecil sent ya. grin I've given them a lot of business. Used to even get fish from them until the VHS sham screwed everything up. I got my first trout from Stoney Creek.

Bruce Condello has some experience with liners. He told a me a few don'ts with them, such as gluing pieces together. He also had some issues with air or water under them. Bruce?

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/26/10 09:06 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Sorry I haven't responded, but I'm the busiest I've ever been in my whole life, At some point I plan on getting caught up and spending more time on the forum. I have some lined ponds. Be careful that if you need seams that they are professionally welded. Bad seams are a nightmare that will never go away. Where are you ordering the liner from? I have a couple of suggestions if you haven't already ordered.

My slopes are probably 3:1 on one side and 2:1 on the other. They're still working quite well, but they didn't produce the idyllic clear ponds that I anticipated.


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Thanks Cecil,

The idea with the steep walls was to keep it clearer and cooler. I was hoping cool enough for YP. This is going to be a food fish pond.

I am developing the back part of the property for food production, as intensively as I can understand. Last year was my first garden, planted late, but was a whopping success. I gave out quite a bit of fresh produce to friends, family and neighbors. This year, things did not go that well, except for the experimental "Raised Beds". Nobody's garden did that well around here this year either. It was a Duh!, slap me up side of the head moment! I had more control with the raised beds. Being an Engineer that practiced (preached) "Total Control" over manufacturing systems, I never thought once of applying the same to gardens or ponds, I am embarrass, but, I am learning.

I have enough room for two, possibly three more ponds of the same size out back. We have pretty good water here. A bit of Hydrogen Sulfide, but that gases off quick.

I am only about 16 or so miles from Stony Creek, as the back roads take you. Maybe around ten as the bird flies. Roughly 22 miles from Crystal Springs in Muskegon, and about the same for His Op. in Hesperia.


Last edited by JKB; 10/03/10 03:34 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Sorry I haven't responded, but I'm the busiest I've ever been in my whole life, At some point I plan on getting caught up and spending more time on the forum. I have some lined ponds. Be careful that if you need seams that they are professionally welded. Bad seams are a nightmare that will never go away. Where are you ordering the liner from? I have a couple of suggestions if you haven't already ordered.

My slopes are probably 3:1 on one side and 2:1 on the other. They're still working quite well, but they didn't produce the idyllic clear ponds that I anticipated.


Thanks Bruce. I was looking at a Co. In Kentucky for the Firestone .45 liners. Let me know what you have in mind.

Take your time, I got a bunch of trees to go through!

Thanks, Again!

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Here's the link to the cheapest company I've worked with. Their customer service was outstanding.

http://www.pondliner.com/category/firestone_epdm_pond_liner


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These guys advertise on Pond Boss, and are represented at the conferences. I really like their rep., and they seemed agressive in their pricing at the last conference. Definitely worth a call.

http://www.coloradolining.com/


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There are several liners with one way valves,let groundwater underpressure in but will not let pond water out, only issue is you need to keep the valves clear so not soil cover on the bottom of the pond

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Thanks. I talked to a local pond guy who specializes in lined ponds.

The current plan is to dig into the water table under the pond and install a grid of 4" drainage tile, then bury it in pea gravel. The tiles would be attached to a 24" culvert with two 24" culverts vertical sticking a foot or so out of the ground. This is so I can utilize the ground water to fill the pond and have a constant supply.

The liner would be installed and inside the pond we would lay in a grid of 2" drain tile and just cover it with larger gravel. I can then draw the water out of the pond and utilize it for the garden. Currently, the raised beds require a supply of 14GPM 24/7.

The pond size changed a bit to 30ft x 80ft and it will be running lengthwise, true east and west.

Anybody find any flaws with this plan. I sure would appreciate any comments.

Last edited by JKB; 11/11/10 03:22 PM.

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