Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
JP1, Savage, Taylor Boudreaux, FishIowa, Theschack
17,478 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,225
Posts532,680
Members17,479
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 25,857
ewest 20,748
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 13,848
Who's Online Now
5 members (Theo Gallus, TGW1, SkunkedAgain, wbuffetjr, anthropic), 146 guests, and 137 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
So is the Georgia Giant nothing else but a CNBG x GSF?

At any rate the GG is still a HBG correct?

I am just wondering if the growth rate is possibe in that time frame, .5 inch to 4.5 inches in 6 weeks?

If so I can see why people like to stock these.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,857
Likes: 155
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 25,857
Likes: 155
If you search here for "Georgia Giant" and go back a few years, you'll see why people don't like to stock them as well.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
So is the Georgia Giant nothing else but a CNBG x GSF? -- no

It is a form (some type)of hybrid lepomis. The exact makeup is unknown to all except the developing hatchery.

I would call the place they came from and ask exactly what they sold you. After they answer I would ask if they sell Georgia Giants or know about them. It is possible that they have stumbled on a near Georgia Giant mix on their own.

If you want a put and take HBG pond that is a good use of HBG like fish. If you want a balanced LMB/BG type pond then add adult CNBG and fish out some of the existing hybrids.
















Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
I will continue to post pictures on here as I will have many sorts of Hybrids since I have a nice GSF pond and plan to add som BG and CNBG if I can find them.

Who knows what I will have in a few years, I guess they will be so diluted that it may be hard to tell after the first few generations.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
M
Mook Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
The largest fish I stocked was 3/4 inch and that was the RES. All of the HCNBG were between 1/2" and 3/4". The one I have in the pic was the largest of 4 I caught. The other three were closer to the 3 1/2" size.

The hatchery told me that they simply were CNBG X GSF and that the retro reproduction has been primarily straight CNBG. He has them in all of his ponds and is very happy with the LMB sustainablity for forage. I guess this will ge a grow, fish, eat and see project.

Mook

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
the retro reproduction has been primarily straight CNBG. -- not sure I understand.
















Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
M
Mook Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
The hatchery told me that the fish I bought would reproduce back to CNBG. Since he told me that they were a cross with GSF, I assumed that he meant more CNGB than GSF in the next generations.

Mook

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
Hybrids can not through reproduction with their own produce offspring that go back (revert)to the original parentals (GSF or CNBG) genetics. Hybrid lepomis exhibit outbreeding depression in the F2 and subsequent generations. That is why all of the fisheries scientists I am aware of state that HBG offspring are not a good thing in a pond. All of the HBG pond plans I am aware of are based on the idea that the predator fish need to be able to eat all the HBG offspring and that over time it will be necessary to restock HBG. The idea is to put them in grow them to size and fish them out while the predators eat all the offspring. Below is a pic of an FX GG.




If there are enough pure CNBG stocked with HBG then over time the CNBG will out produce the HBG and leave you with a CNBG population. They will not be crosses(hybrids). CNBG produce lots of babies 30 to 50 thousand a year while HBG if they spawn successfully will have only a few (1000 +-) babies a year.

Last edited by ewest; 09/16/10 09:02 PM.















Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Mook,

Did you say you were feeding your fish, if so what brand and size of food are you using?

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 147
B
Offline
B
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 147
Originally Posted By: ewest
Hybrids can not through reproduction with their own produce offspring that go back (revert)to the original parentals (GSF or CNBG) genetics. Hybrid lepomis exhibit outbreeding depression in the F2 and subsequent generations. That is why all of the fisheries scientists I am aware of state that HBG offspring are not a good thing in a pond. All of the HBG pond plans I am aware of are based on the idea that the predator fish need to be able to eat all the HBG offspring and that over time it will be necessary to restock HBG. The idea is to put them in grow them to size and fish them out while the predators eat all the offspring. Below is a pic of an FX GG.




If there are enough pure CNBG stocked with HBG then over time the CNBG will out produce the HBG and leave you with a CNBG population. They will not be crosses(hybrids). CNBG produce lots of babies 30 to 50 thousand a year while HBG if they spawn successfully will have only a few (1000 +-) babies a year.


Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that hybrids did in fact play out into their parental phenotypes. When two hybrid bluegills breed, a percentage of the offspring will largely have a bluegill phenotype, and a percentage will have a green sunfish phenotype, I might be wrong, but this was my understanding. In fact I am fairly certain that I have witnessed it.

Last edited by brier; 09/19/10 12:22 AM.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
M
Mook Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
wow thats one ugly fish- I guess it would be a good bet in either case to get some straight CNBG as noted in a previous post.

The feed I am using is just the game-fish stuff I get from the feed/seed store and I actually switched over to the catfish food a couple weeks ago because it was cheaper.

Mook

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
How much cheaper are we talking? Were you using the Purina Game Fish Chow before?

Just wondering, as I too was going to use the Catfish food but as you will hear from others on the site, it may have many extra ingredients that you may not want your fish to have.

At any rate more advice will be coming your way.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
M
Mook Offline OP
OP Offline
M
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32
Too funny - that is what I told my wife after she bought the catfish food - cheaper is rarely if ever- better. Yes it was Purina and yes I will be going back to it since after the last discussion with my wife she said that I was in charge of getting all the feed if I did not like what she got -sound familiar to anyone?

Mook

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,748
Likes: 76
"Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that hybrids did in fact play out into their parental phenotypes. When two hybrid bluegills breed, a percentage of the offspring will largely have a bluegill phenotype, and a percentage will have a green sunfish phenotype, I might be wrong, but this was my understanding. In fact I am fairly certain that I have witnessed it."


Take a look at this on outbreeding depression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outbreeding_depression

Once the GSF and BG genes are mixed in a HBG they can't revert to what their parents were genetically (at least not in a short time like a few years/lifetimes). HBG are 90% males +- and so there are not many females to spawn. Plus fecundity is very low. So the probability of an ongoing HBG population undoing the cross genetically through evolution/selection is exceedingly small. What I believe you are seeing is the result of outbreeding depression as noted in the link.



Last edited by ewest; 09/21/10 09:53 PM.















Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
M
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
M
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,840
Don't even get me started on that boat as none of the women over here even understand why I am feeding fish, and wonder why I waste the money. mad


I bet the first time my wife hooks into a 1+ pound BG or a nice 3+ pound LMB that has been eating the fat BG she will change her mind. grin

Plus I tell them it is for the kids anyway and they love to fish, not to mention how much the like to eat it as well.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 893
Likes: 2
O
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
O
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 893
Likes: 2
No matter what the theory states...I have not seen significant successful reproduction from hybrid bluegill.

Also IMO, the Georgia Giant is also just an overhyped hybrid bluegill. Maybe at one time they were special but now I understand them to be the result of the standard green sunfish/bluegill cross. Either way, they are not ideal for bass forage, they are more of a competitor!

I agree with the others, stock with significant numbers of mature coppernose bluegill before you even think about stocking bass.



Last edited by overtonfisheries; 09/24/10 01:10 PM.

It's ALL about the fish!
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
harvey dupriest, LeighAnn
Recent Posts
Thoughts on a new 2.7 acre pond stocking
by anthropic - 10/19/21 02:38 AM
FIsh from today
by anthropic - 10/18/21 11:33 PM
How fish adapt. Sciency but fascinating!
by anthropic - 10/18/21 11:23 PM
Hello- Thoughts/Opinions appreciated!
by Savage - 10/18/21 09:28 PM
Laying Fiber Optics- Free Fish Habitat
by FishinRod - 10/18/21 09:25 PM
Sizing trash pump and hose for filling/maintaining
by FishinRod - 10/18/21 09:10 PM
14 acre lake - will aeration REMOVE buildup?
by Sunil - 10/18/21 12:30 PM
4th pond filling
by RAH - 10/18/21 12:22 PM
Pond dig deeper?
by SkunkedAgain - 10/18/21 11:33 AM
Trail cam pics
by FishinRod - 10/18/21 09:47 AM
8 acre pond at 10,000' - lots of aeration ?s
by wbuffetjr - 10/18/21 09:29 AM
Trophic Status is this a viable strategy?
by esshup - 10/17/21 11:25 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Tilapia indoors and out
Tilapia indoors and out
by highflyer, September 29
Naiad vs chara?
Naiad vs chara?
by marlin304, September 26
spreading bentonite
spreading bentonite
by Guppy1, September 20
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
Hurricanes and wildlife 1
by Stressless, September 1
pondr 5a
pondr 5a
by Stressless, August 18
Well fed sunfish
Well fed sunfish
by DNickolaus, August 16

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5