Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction aquatic vegetation

Hello,
I recently aquired a 10 to 12 acre lake in western South Dakota that until two years ago had been dry for the past 5 years. After two wet years it is full again. with most of the lake running 5' to 6' deep and 10' to 12' by the dam. I got a little ahead of my self and stocked it this spring with some fathead minnows then 3,000 pearch (2" to 5") and 1,000 bass (5" to 7") with a contracted 1,000 walleye (4" to 6") coming this fall. These amounts were at the recomendation of the local fish grower. Then this summer I started to have significant weed issues to the point I can no longer get a small boat into the lake or cast to fish it. My question is how do I go about managing my lake. so far everyone has told me that it is too late for this year and that I should spray it with an aqutic 24d next year. Can you help??
P.S. I have pictures but am not sure how to upload

Welcome to PB Dan. Go to www.aquaplant.com. It is Texas A & M's website of pond weeds. What you have is an emergent plant. You can identify it there and get management options. There are also some guys at SDSU who know a little about pond water and the plants that mess it up.

10 to 12 acres of choked weeds is a lot of spraying. I don't think I would mess with it this year. It'll be freezing in your area soon.

Hey Dave, the correct address is http://aquaplant.tamu.edu/. However, the URL "www.aquaplant.com" is for sale, if you have $21,600 laying around.

DakotaDan: as Dave mentioned, next spring might be a better time to address the multiple species of " SUBMERGED " plants shown in your pictures (Eurasian watermilfoil, slender pondweed?, sago pondweed?, etc).

Thanks,
I have a local crop duster that can spray a mixture of 24d and round up both lables saying they are safe for fish and water at a boatload less than I have been able to source any type a grainular treatment. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?? When an how often do I need to spray? Is this something I will have to continue to do or is their a biological method?

Roundup ***, and other "terrestrial-labeled" formulation of glyphosate are not intended nor "safe" for aquatic treatments.
"Aquatic" glyphosate brands (i.e. AQUANEAT, RODEO, AQUAMASTER, etc, etc) primarily differ from the terrestrial labeled version (RoundUp) by the aquatic formulations' lack of a surfactant. Thus, it is the surfactants present in Roundup and other terrestrial-labeled glyphosates that render them inappropriate for aquatic use.
All of this is irrelevant in your case, since glyphosate (under any brand-name) will offer NO BENEFIT for the species depicted in your photos.
On the other hand, using a liquid 2,4-D to treat your lake's submerged weeds represents an off-label (illegal) use - AND would potentially impact only the Eurasian watermilfoil (and none of the other submerged species). Plus, surface-applications for submerged species are far from desirable. So, 2,4-D isn't a viable option in many respects.
Query your local "crop duster" regarding his experience with aquatic treatments, and whether Roundup or liquid 2,4-D are legal and legitimate for your situation. If he says "yes", head for the exit.
Your best bet for the species shown in your photos will likely be fluridone (depending on if and how much water your lake normally transitions during the June-through-Aug window).

Hy Kelly
I was planning on just jumping into my little pond and just raking the pond weed out.
( pond about 6ft deep until this last rain No about 8ft)
Then netting everything that float loose. I have some large talpia but I guess they just not into the Texas pond weed.
Pond about 1/2 to 3/4 acres. You being so close by thinking you might just come by and show me. lol.

Kelly:

What is the helicopter used for in the pic on the website?

What helicopter, and what website?

Oh, I got it.... Some aquatic herbicides (namely Aquathol K) have a higher density than water and will sink to some degree within the water-column - which is a characteristic that permits surface-application under certain circumstances, especially when a polymer sinking-agent is tank-mixed. However, weed-growths targeted in deeper water are much more effectively treated with weighted drop-hoses from a boat - or granular products applied by boat, plane or helo.
btw: Choppers are also used for large-scale topical applications to floating and emergent weeds.

Pay attention to Kelly. He is THE MAN when it comes to aquatic chemicals.

OK, I might have been a little flippant when I used the terms 24d and Round up. I ment to say it was their manufacturers Aquatic version which states on the lable that is is safe for fish. Also, my crop duster who sits on the board of the states weed and pest control commision told me upfront that he had never done anything with water.

I now understand that Round up does not address the weeds in my pond but I did find an artical on 24d from the state of washington that was interesting. http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/management/24DStrategies.html

Here is my real problem. Its a 10 acre lake and I'm not made of money. I can crop dust the whole lake for $300. The Whitecap Fluridone will cost $2,000 for the chemical alone and I have no way to apply it unless you can apply this stuff from the air. Can You?

Is there anything you can apply from the air that will work??

Looking for a cost effective method.

The above plant is Eurasian watermilfoil (EWM). I labeled guesses for the other plants in the below image. I'm not sure if the the other plants range into the Dakotas. However, EWM is a non-native specie in the US. So, the other plants could have hitched a ride into the lake along with the EWM.

Positive plant-IDs from sharply-focused images are much more feasible with a single plant shown against a contrasting background - with a coin added for scale-reference.

DD: Depending on your lake's depth and inflo/outflow habits, I think you could manage all three species for far less than $2k/yr - but only if the projected results correlate with your ultimate veg-mgmt goals. However, it is likely that two consecutive annual treatments would be required - regardless of the selected product or application method (and again, depending on your objectives).
If desired, send me your lake's coordinates and a reasonably accurate estimate of the OVERALL average-depth. Also, when would you project your lake to reach 55/60F next spring?

LAT: 44°17'51.84"N
LONG: 102°15'45.32"W

Half of the lake is 5' and the other half by the dam is 8' to 10' deep. Overall I would say it averages 7'. The lake will probubly get to 60F next may/june.

If you google earth this lake you will see that the picture is from two years ago when it was dry.

Hey, I really apprecaite the input.

P.S. My goals would be to have someplace my kids could swim and have some reasonable fishing. I know I need some weed but I currently have 80 to 90 percent coverage.

P.P.S. I added some more pictures I had. Not very good but what the heck.

DD:

Regarding the last plant. Does it get kinda brittle and smell skunky when it's rubbed between your hands and broken up?

But, your latest pics show more details and enabled positive IDs. I labeled a few of these details, primarily so others can see the level of detail that is sometimes needed for positive identification.


Based on those coordinates, I assume you like your privacy You're correct about the satelite image's date. Unfortunately, the eye-in-the-sky doesn't refresh images of rural areas very frequently. Wished there was an aerial that better displayed the lake's perimeter.

First regarding the last plant (Chara) there is not much of it and I never got a chance to smell it so I dont know.

Next I have attached a .jpeg with the outline of the lake if it helps. Please let me know what you think.

Your "10-12 acre lake" measured out to 22+ acres. I dotted it 3 times to be sure; once coming up with 32 acres (don't know what happened there; might be related to the remote location and low-resolution of the base-image).
My hunch is the 22~24 acre-range is likely.
How confident are you of the 10-12 acre estimate? And, from where did that estimate originate?

You can see the tracer-line more clearly on this image. Let me know if the measured shoreline-contour appears fairly accurate.

I used the counties mapping program which has a squar foot calculator in it. I'm pretty confident its 10 acres +- 1 acre. Those fingers add a lot of liner feet but not that much lake.

Here's another partial-lake measurement, with an inset square-acre for reference.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying I'm right. But, my experiences with this 2-dimensional measuring feature have proven it very reliable.

Edit: in reviewing my previous measurements and tracers, it is hard to believe that the lake's "fingers" could possibly represent 9-11 acres. I may measure them separately and see what turns up. Basically, I'm questioning the results of my remote measurements.

Confirming the lake's measurements - and theorical volume - become more critical as relative size increases, since that info will determine the necessary treatment-rates (& $) for certain products.

Wow, I bought a program called Easy Acres ($20) that works with Google earth to calculate area. You were right on. I got just under 24 acres. our lines were a little different so that explains that. Man, I was concerned about 10 acres I guess 24 is even going to cost more. I understand the issue about volume. I used that same tool to get some depth approximations. 8.5 acres @ 10', 5.5 acres @ 6' and 9.5 acres @ 4'. I tried to do some volume calculation with info I got on the web but I'm having a hard time believing the answers. What do you think??

DakotaDan, I admit I had to chuckle at wanting to claim your water is half the size of what it actually is. Most of us want to claim it's double the size of what it is.

All due respect Kelly but I can see why Zep questions whether that first picture is coontail. Eurasian watermilfoil has a hollow stem with four feather like leaves at each node and finely dissected to the midrib.

The leaves of coontail although similar the the WMF are forked with the ones at the growing tip being very compact like the first image. Not that it changes much regarding treatment.

Please help me understand why you are positive that it is WMF for my own education.

I will help out here. Water MF and the other species of milfoils have, as Blaine mentioned, leaves that are like a feather - a midrib with single 'leaflets' coming off the midrib as in a palm leaf or bird feather. Whereas in coontail the leaflets (not all but usu 2-3) will have a few Y branches. No Y branching on leaflets in left weed photo of Kelly's Sept 9th post (1:53pm).

The leaves of Eurasian watermilfoil and coontail are very different. I've always described coontail leaves as having the appearance of a snake's forked-tongue (which differentiates it from Chara's non-forked secondary stem). Eurasian watermilfoil leaves resemble a feather (with the individual filaments separated) rather than a snake's tongue.