Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Water Ram?

If possible, I'd like to purchase the JUL - AUG 08 issue of PB. I'm most interested in the article about the water ram. After seeing photos of the leak, a friend thought the conditions appear to be ideal for it and we probably could tie it in to our existing pipe which pumps in water from the creek. I've found a few articles online on building one and, currently, I'm thinking this may be not only the simplest solution but the best.

To measure the flow we put a pipe in the leak (it's about 15 feet down from the top of the dam/berm/land separating the pond from the creek). Since we've been monitoring it, it's flowing about 4 gallons a minute at its slowest and 8 or more when the pond is really full.

If anyone has an opinion whether this is good or bad, I'd appreciate any comments. Thank you.

LCG:

Give them a call. The office # is 903-564-6144

Thank you, esshup.

The last of two issues is on its way to me.

Thanks, again.

Now this is just my simple mined self taking here but couldn't you just put a 90 degree elbow on that pipe and go up 15 feet with pipe and then put another elbow on it and take it back over your dam and into the water? Make it into a recycler if you will. I know that's not a fix but wouldn't the pipe fill up eventually and flow back out into the pond? Or is that a real stupid idea?

That idea was one of my "brain-storms", too, and what triggered my friend to suggest a water ram. Water does not travel very well uphill. From what I understand, by just putting a hose or a series of elbows on the leak and re-circulating it upward, the pressure at the leak level would probably break open another leak site instead of pushing the water upward.

Ahhh ok that makes since! So anotherwards you would end up with 2 leaks then!! That would suck! Thanks for that info LCG.

My understanding of a ram is that they use huge amounts of high head pressurized water to pump a tiny bit up hill. I may be wrong, but I would not expect a ram to operate well on that little amount of flow.

Hopefully, I'll learn more and whether it's applicable to the leak from Cornwell's article in that back issue. My understanding now is that the mechanics of the pump is a cyclic building and releasing of pressure. One valve allows water to build up speed, it shuts, pressure builds (creating that 'high head pressure'?) until another valve opens to the upward pipe.

The one negative I've read is just what you stated: only a tiny bit actually goes uphill.

i have done some reading on water ram pumps and watch lots of youtube videos on them. best i can tell they are real inefficient. maybe a 4:1 at the best.

http://www.acourt.co.nz/home/H0029001.htm#general
hope the links can be off help

Thank you... I saw the Clemson site (and printed it out) the other day in my search.


"...water can be pumped to higher levels, even when the turbine speed is very slow due to low water volume. ...Capable of pumping vertically, in excess of 260ft (80 metres)."

Holy Moly! Investing in a water turbine just might be the ticket! We're currently using an electric pump (which needs work) to move water from the creek to the pond when necessary and pumping for irrigation. This is a good flowing stream, too, not a little tricking creek and our permits allow us to pump purely for beautification except when the salmon run. I had wondered about the logistics of a watermill but hadn't even thought of (or known about) a water turbine.

Thanks for throwing in another option...maybe the best option!

Update: Thank you, Pond Boss. I received my back issue, good article by Mark Cornwell and it's great to see the pictures he provided. Yes, they are inefficient, as you noted, Scott. We might get 1 gallon per minute pumped up (coincidently, about the same as the leak) and lose maybe 10 doing so. But I like the idea of water ram down by where the leak is as there would still be a little lagoon there from the waste value and once it's set-up, we can just, more or less, forget about it. (The water turbine is still under consideration to replace the electric pump.)

I also enjoyed the article on dragonflies! We have plenty of dragonflies and even now in the middle of summer hardly any mosquitoes. I can sit in the evening, get lost in the beauty and enjoy.

Does anyone know how much a water turbine costs? Has anyone used one or are they new?

http://www.utilityfree.com/hydro/
^Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the generators and prices.

And >
http://www.absak.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/33_89
ABS Alaskan also has a library >
http://www.absak.com/library/hydro-power
^Click the links on the right for the articles.

I recently had some work done on our pump (and learned it pumps 300 gallons per minute!) and asked the guy about water turbines. He told me our town uses one during the summer but they take it out in the fall because the creek (really a river) would tear it up with its turbulence. I know that's not very helpful as I haven't any idea what kind they have but it's a factor I hadn't considered.

The ones I was talking about use the water power to pump water. These are still interesting, thanks.