Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Proving them wrong: Thanks Dr. Condello!

In aquaculture circles it's basically said it's hard to grow bluegills large enough for harvest in less than a year even in an RAS where temps can be controlled year around. They were even touting hybrids as the best alternative.

Well I'm here to tell them I've proved them wrong and it's mostly I believe thanks to some selective breeding by Dr. Bruce Condello, which is where I got my original broodstock.

In February I dug some 1/2 to 3/4 inch bluegill out of the ice in a floating cage where I was holding them until my RAS tank cycled. It took about 2 months for the tank to completely cycle due to the cool water in the tank of low 60's. Anyway, after adding a couple of aquarium heaters a couple months later thanks to the generosity of Scot (Esshup), I've been keeping the water in the high 70's the last few months and growth has been phenomenal for the fastest growing individuals. Many are now in the 6 inch range and close to becoming harvestable size for the table length wise, but they are already there weight wise. Typical Condello traits of small heads and robust bodies. They are not destined for the table however as the fastest growers will be my future broodstock.

I find this especially noteworthy considering the bluegills I used were late spawners (hatched in August) and weren't growing under the ice for at about 3 months. So at fish that are approaching 1 year of age with no growth for 3 months and slow growth for at least another month due to cold temps they are now close to table size. This fall I hope to put 3 to 4 inch bluegills (June/July spawned) into the tank and see what I get in another year's time. I'm thinking a good solid 8 to 9 inches for the fastest growers.

Now to qualify this I did put some 1 year old fish in with my original fish a few months down the line that I had salvaged from a holding pond. However it didn't take long for all original fish to catch up in length.

That's some great growth you got on your BG, are you feeding them more than once a day?
Also you might have said, but are your BG still in the RAS or did you put them outside?

One more question Cecil, do you think the BG hatched this year will be mature enough to spawn next summer after keeping them in the RAS over the winter?

Yes I probably feed them at least 4 times a day or whenever I get bored in the shop and want to avoid work. With the warm water they always seem hungry.




No they are still in the tank. I'm going to keep the biggest ones in the tank when I can sort them, which will be once I have another tank to move the RBC to. It's really tough to net them out with the RBC in the tank. They are really fast moving too!

My thinking is my biggest perch in the YOY pond will be 6 to 8 inches this fall when I seine them out, which will be the size range of the largest bluegills in the tank at the same time. There's some literature that says putting both species together promotes better feeding. The other tank of course will be several thousand YOY bluegills.



I really don't know the answer to that. It would seem if they were 6 to 8 inches they could be ready to spawn. But on the other hand will a bg less than a year old become sexually mature? Perhaps I could keep them immature by reducing the photoperiod? I've been using an artificial light in conjunction with a small window, as I have read longer duration lighting promotes growth.

I've forgotten and left the light on for the night and come down to find them milling around near the surface ready for food.

You're not going to believe the following AP but it comes from a very reliable source. The source is Dr. Jim Whetzel of Lincoln University in Missouri that is doing a lot of research on bluegill growth rates and how to achieve better growth rates. etc.

When I posed your question to him he said the following:

... Bluegill spawned in May 2010 now pushing 3" will spawn, regardless of sex. Assuming no larger bluegill to compete with.

Great job, Cecil. I'd missed this thread! We caught some nine inch bluegill in my Dad's pond this morning that have to be age-2's since the pond was drained a couple of years ago. Pretty good for being in the middle of their third growing season!

Yes especially since they are were outdoors during winter months when growth was pretty much nil!

You mean Bruce didn't tell you about the heaters in the pond for the winter?

Oh yeah I know all about the nuclear power plant and cooling tower!

Cecil,

This is a neat project you have and nice to know that just about all things are possible if conditions are right. I had wondered how the BG would react in the System and thought to myself as to why more people do not do this, but then again I guess if they had the time or space they may still want a fish that grows faster than that in a years times.

So just to clarify your fish have gone from 1/2 inch to 6 inches in 6 months?

When you say they have reached harvestable size in a year, what sizes are we talking about? Obviously you want to keep your faster growers as they will be the best for future RAS members. I was just curious as to what you consider table worthy and is it based on weight, length, or both? What is the weight of your 6 inch fish?

I wonder how this system would work with other types of Sunfish?

Also you may have mentioned this before so I apologize if so, but how often do you check your water, what are the levels of Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, PH, Hardiness, etc., and what type of testing strips or kit do you use?

Either way I hope to get a system like yours up and running within the next year, so I hope you are still out here tinkering around and willing to help a new (clueless) guy out.

My dilemma will be do I just get some superior Broods to start with, or go all out, fight the odds and try to dip up some fry from my ponds and see what kind or genes my native pond fish have.

Heck while I am doing it I may as well have two setups and see what happens.

Again thanks for these projects you have going as they sure are fun to follow.

I think feeding is the main key in getting Gill to harvest size. And I agree the HBG will grow faster due to the large mounth and feeding habits. This is a picture of a HBG stocked as a fingerling last September. 8' long and as you can see fairly fat. Now that it's warmed up down here in south Texas. We feed a 8:00AM and 8:00PM. They load up at the bank just waiting on feeding time.

Rick,

Actually studies are now showing the hybrids grow faster at first but if there is plenty of food the regulars out grow them and grow larger. It's been discussed several times on here and you should be able to find the discussions by doing a search for hybrids.

Yes the largest ones have. There are still some smaller ones and even some that aren't growing much at all probably due to the larger ones crowding them out at feeding time.



I'm not exactly sure what the producers consider harvestable size but if I had to guess I'd say 7 inches. However that should be covered in the Sunfish culture manual that is available on line for free now.



I don't know what the weight of them is at this point as it's impossible to catch them with the net! I need to remove the RBC and use a two part net that is made of two PVC square frames that open and close to confine the fish in one part of the tank.



I don't see why it wouldn't work the same.



I don't check as often as I should now that I've had the system for a while, but you're supposed to check once a week. If the fish are feeding like gangbusters I assume everything is fine.

When I do check, unless I did something stupid, the ammonia stays at zero as do the nitrites. Nitrates are running in the 80 ppm range which isn't a problem.

I prefer an aquarium test kit with chemicals you add to the water sample and then match to color cards vs. the strips. The strips are too general for me.



I hope to expand even more. If I sell grass carp next year they will probably be held in an RAS. Looks Like I may have to expand to the garage before I build a pole barn but it will happen.



It's up to you. However there's a good chance if you start with some pond fry that have a good head start, and you get them on feed, you will have good luck.



Yeah you could compare.



Thanks for being interested and subscribing to the mag to keep everything going.
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Cecil,

When I said harvest size I was wondering what you considered the size as.

Thanks

Cecil great info. I think you know this info but for others if they did not realize. In our warmer climates we stock a 1-2 inch bluegill in the fall that is basically 2-3 months old. The following spring they are 4-5 inches and by summer the average is 7 inches. By the fall 8 inches or 1/2 lb fish when being fed. They also spawn in April after being stocked. THis is what we have designed our stocking plans around.

Wow Greg we can only dream of that kind of growth up here. As I mentioned there are several months of the year where growth is pretty much nil due to the water temps.

Ironically some of the most impressive bluegills I have seen size wise have come from Minnesota and the UP of Michigan.

Long lived slow growers.

True. It would be interesting to see how fast they grow when water temps are optimum. I wonder if it's possible they've adapted to fast growth then?