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Joined: Apr 2002
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Thanks Eric. But, I wanted to download and enhance the images.
"All rights reserved by chanjernigan. The owner has disabled downloading of their photos"

I had to do an end-around to clip the below excerpts from the images in KJ's photo-storage site.
PF: Joseph DiTomaso, at UC-Davis, is a good source for all types of plant-IDs. He also has a great ID BOOK available.
It might prove interesting to email this composite image to him and see what he thinks.



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UC Davis is my number one source for much of my pond advice. I never saw those above photos before. They don't look anything like what he posted. They look like bladderwort. Obviously. But I looked though the dozen or so photos he posted and not one looked like those above. And the never saw flowers ever observation had me thinking otherwise. Interesting.

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Guys, thanks for all the posts. I am here to tell you I am walking around my pond, cutting grass, feeding fish, trapping turtles and just hanging out daily. I haven't seen any blooms, but not saying it won't happen. Kelly I will be more than happy to send the images to you if you are still having trouble getting them. I also will be more than happy to take more if you like. Thanks for all the help!


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I just sent you an email Kelly Duffie. I will send you some larger cleaner images when I get back home this afternoon from work.

Last edited by KJernigan; 08/06/10 12:22 PM.

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This is a great thread for me, because it can help me better work with customers as far as photo identification of plants. Not exactly a strength for me right now. Of course when I get to a pond in person, that is a piece of cake. But as this business involves I do so much more over the Internet an E Mail. Going to have to breakdown and get web page savvy, photobucket and facebook. Hate for the ol Frog to go swimming into the tar pit of old relic pond managers.

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PF iding plants from pics is not my strong suit. Very hard for me and never sure until plant is in hand and I can compare with written and photo evidence. On the other hand Kelly knows plants.
















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The composite picture posted above is comprised of cropped-sections from four images on JK's Flickr website. So, you've seen them before - but not from the same perspective.

To paraphrase the old saying, it is sometimes hard to see the trees due to the forest.

Since I couldn't download those images from JK's Flickr site, I had to "print" a pdf of each image-screen and then crop the section of the pdfs that displayed only key elements necessary for ID.

I made my original ID-assessment based on the population's growth pattern (upper-left), the bladders (which are unique to Utricularia spp), the stems' branching-characteristics (top-right) and the absence of flattened leaves (which would have certainly confused the ID with Najas).

PF: I sent the composite image to Mr. DiTomaso last night. I'll forward his reply to you.

I'll concede that plant-IDs from digital-images are sometimes tricky - especially when image-resolution and perspective is lacking. Tell-tail features are always the "key". Sometimes, they're present - sometimes not. I can't make a positive ID all the time, even after lots of practice. But, images are usually much better than phone-descriptions.

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Yikes, what a load of work. I'm basically an old school fool. I like to reach down in the pond, pull a handful of plants or weeds out, look, feel and smell. With a free consultation I usually can accomplish that. If there is something I am even in the least bit confused on I take it to my local aquatic plant store where a employee with a botany degree works. Beginning to cross the line of my job not being fun with the photo work. Not that I don't appreciate the efforts and rewards, just not my lily pad.

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The load of work (all 5-min worth) occured after the question "How could you determine it is bladderwort for certain from those photos?" popped up. It would have been much more difficult to convey the plant's tacit traits without enhancing the posted photos.
Incorrect IDs can often lead to improper treatments or management practices. From a herbicide standpoint, bladderworts are MUCH more difficult to control than Najas.

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For you it was 5 minutes. For me I would struggle for an hour. It is pretty much documented at this forum I am basically incompetent when it comes to working with photos. But I agree without the photo enhancement and the missed flowers I was heading down the wrong path. But since I am not going to be treating the pond over the internet, as soon as I reached down and grabbed a handful of the material up, I would know how to treat it. My business is not predicated on positive ID of plants from a distance. If it was, I would be best served like yourself becoming an expert with photo enhancement. I have zero desire to go that direction. I don't like working with photos, I do like visiting ponds and my customers on site. That is where my rubber hits the road. Or my frontline. If I ever felt my business was not fun and entertaining, I would stop it tomorrow. Playing with photos is not fun to me. Playing with ponds is.

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When a plant like bladderwort masses up there's swings and roundabouts.

On the one hand, it will produce dense cover for desirable fish to hide beneath when dastardly Mr. Heron comes calling in the Winter months. It may well smother and destroy undesirable submerged aquatic plants when it blots out the light.

Its dense cover will help shade and cool waters around the mid 70's where in hot climates water temperatures would get excessive, beyond the mid 90's

If you were to try to establish waterlilies, you might gain from setting vulnerable starts where bladderwort will crowd around, turtles find bladderwort impenetrable but waterlilies will grow through it...

On the other hand, that dense living blanket will become a trap for every bit of gunk (pollen, pine needles, leaf litter) and algae to choke the surface with a dense, well, gunky funky mass

When it masses up, because it is a rootless plant, its fairly easy to yank the whole lot to shore and just leave it to bake in the sun...

You could choose to 'manage' the situation by letting it mass where its foliage is beneficial, and reduce it where you don't want it by dragging masses out leaving relatively clear and open waters where you want them

Regards, andy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21940871@N06/
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/adavisus/

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You guys certainly know your stuff. I got out their this weekend and starting raking it to the shore and using a pitchfork and scooping it up and putting it in the boat. Guess what, after about an hour of scooping I saw a yellow bloom sticking up out of the water. I spent 4 hours raking and getting this muck to shore and only saw 2 blooms. You guys nailed it as Bladderwort! I promise I couldn't believe my eyes as I have never seen a bloom anywhere before. Thanks for all the responses and dedication to my posting and helping me identify what I have in the pond. I believe I am going to leave a little for the fish to hide in.


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