Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Reestablishing Plants

If you have a hungry gang of grass carp in your pond/lake the chances of lily survival is at best only fair and probably poor. One of the thngs that would help lily survival is availability of other plants for them to eat. GC can be ravenous on new plants when the water body has been denuded. GC like the young lily leaves, esp those that haven't hit the surface. They will chop these leaves during late fall winter and early spring, thus the lily has a hard time starting new growth and often dies.

You might try to make fairly large diameter cylinders out of fencing, stake the sides to hold the shape. Cylinder walls could be 3'-4' tall.


Even in a new pond with a compacted clay bottom, once it becomes inundated with water for several months the upper bottom is relatively soft; soft enough to plant a lily rhizome 4"-6" deep. There are usually enough loose clay and dirt clods after construction to produce areas of soft soil several inches thick on the bottom surface.

Bill, two years ago we lost 60% of our lake water due to a drain pipe collapse. While we were repairing the drain and damn, and while the water was still very low, we took the opportunity to doze out the shallowest areas of the pond. Nevertheless there is some softness in the soil. You can see that by the foot prints in the photo.

The youngest of the GC is now 21 years old. I think I have only a dozen or so of them left (I hope!). I'm hoping that their days are numbered. I know that water lilies are not their favorite plant, and that's why I opted to try them first. I once saw a pond where GC and lilies had co-existed for years and both were thriving. I agree with you that if these few plants are the only plants in the lake, they'll eat them. My desire is to get to the point where someday I can do without enclosures and have enough plants to help clear the water.

Last year I put in a potted water lily, sans fence. It grew new leaves and seemed healthy for two weeks. Then, one night it was there, the next morning it was gone. No trace of anything! I'm sure it was a victim of the GC.

You're the expert, so I'm going to go with your (and Pond Frog's) advice. I'll make a new fenced in area in deeper water. I'll put some potted hardy water lilies in there for a year. Then, I'll take them out and replant them next Spring. Do you think I'll need to dig a hole to plant them? Or, can I just push the whole ball of soil and roots into the pond bottom?

Nothing more worthless than an old grass carp. You know if I were in your shoes I would try a little bit of everything, except leaving unprotected lilies in carp areas. I would try both deeper water in pots, in enclosures, behind a fence. Potted lilies just have a much better chance of survival, provided they are protected from ravenous carp, then pushing the bareroot rhizomes down. I'd leave them in the pots until next Spring. Then I would take one or two out and put them in carp proof cages. Muck is not exactly a good thing, clay is much better. Lilies search out hard bottom to survive. Muck just accumulates over the top of them. And you could dig deep pot holes out even underwater with a post hole digger, to decrease the height. Lilies will work even in shallows, with that variety I would imagine as long as you have a foot over the top of the rhizome they will hang in there. And don't lose hope over the planted wrong lilies. They tend to find thier own way as long as they survive the transplant and don't float. Good thing about many hardy varities, they can adapt. If Trickers pots them in 2 gal pots I'd go that route for sure. Spend a little bit more, but much better chance of having them alive next Spring ready to start strong.

Thanks Pond Frog! I'm convinced. The next batch of lilies will be potted. We'll make another GC proof enclosure for them. We'll keep them 2' -3' down to avoid ice damage. Then in the Spring we'll dig holes for them with the post hole digger and permanently plant them in the clay. There is no muck in this part of the lake due to scraping it up two years ago.

It seems like the bare-root plantings we did are holding their own though as you can see by the photo. But I realize that was a gamble. Thanks again for your great advice!

Do grass carp really live that long??? MrSandman, I'm really curious to know how big the GC are at that age! I think mine might outlive me .

I surrounded my new bare root water lillies with honey locust branches. I had great luck in our farm pond with this method (placed on bottom with a brick on top in most cases because clay was so hard). I did this with 3 puchased from Lowes and about 30 given by a friend. I have a thriving population now and they are doing extremely well (whites, yellows, and pinks/reds). I moved a dozen or so splits to a couple shallow ponds/wetlands a couple years ago (also on our farm) with no protection and lost most of them (and the rest are struggling). We have muskrats, crayfish, turtles, and deer so I am not sure what is getting them, but they get defoliated quickly when it happens). I think I'll use chickenwire enclosure next time.

Hang loose, I am amazed at how long my GC have lived! I'm not sure how many I still have but I easily could see 5 of them at a time this Spring as they were cruising the surface gulping down cottonwood seeds. This is the first year where I can actually say that there seem to be fewer of them. I'm hoping that I have only a dozen or so left. I haven't been able to catch one in several years but they look huge! I'm sure they're over 25 lbs. I had the same question as you concerning their lifespan. Here is the link to my question:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...6651#Post146651

RAH, did you plant your bare-root lilies directly into your pond bottom or did you pot them first? The honey locust branches was a clever idea but it seems like more work cutting and collecting them than to install the chicken wire or fencing, not to mention being stabbed by their sharp spines.

Grass carp in the midwest are supposed to be done at 15 years, 12 on average. With abundant food they can top the scales at 40. Longest lived Koi carp by comparison 236 years. That is not a typo. There are ways to shorten that lifespan.

I planted my lillies directly on the pond bottom. I needed to get rid of the honey locust trees anyway, so cutting off the branches was just good excersize and a good chance to hone my coordination so I did not get impaled. The brush protected the lillies, provided cover for fish, did not create an eyesore (in my opinion), and rotted away on its own. I agree that it was more work than chicken wire, but I can use the excercise.

Pond Frog, Wow! For any fish to live 236 years is incredible! Yet, I know you didn't just make that up.

RAH, It's good to see that still others have had success with direct planting of bare-root water lilies!

I just visited a pond I planted 11 different varieties, both bareroot and potted, directly into pond bottom. No floaters, rocks kept them down. In this pond I would have to say the deciding factor was plant developement and depth. In two groups of three, my back two of the triangle never made it up. They were potted. In fact everyone of my shallow plants made it. All of my bareroots also made it, including one I scrounged that had popped at another pond on a deepwater planting. Also, the plants that did not make it had smallish rhizomes and not many leaves. I personally did not like the look of them but had committed the species and had not enough time to grow them out. I did manage to get at least 1 plant of all 11 species, and most of my triangles worked. Also got a beige flower on a peaches and cream. No peach or cream, just a solid beige next to a plant with a perfect peaches and cream. If it stays consistent on producing beige flowers I will have to take some of that spreading rhizome back for propagation. Customer is thrilled, especially with the marginals. Lilies are filling in though. I'd say three seasons before pairs and triangles form single patches. Going to end up with 14 species here.