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Originally Posted By: Greg Grimes
Todd thanks for update and I need to get you on commission. smile Just glad things worked for the expensive but neccesary herbicide.


GREG GRIMES, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! THERE HE IS - GREG GRIMES! NEED A GREAT DEAL ON WHITECAP? SEE THIS MAN! grin

I was really happy with the results, too, Greg. It took awhile, but I suspected that could be the issue heading into it given that it had taken over so heavily by the time I hit it with the good stuff. It's been great for the past several weeks seeing more water than watermeal! And with out colder night time temps coming, I'm hoping to see the very last of it before too much longer. Then, another dose this coming spring (save me a bottle, please!) and maybe we can keep it from gaining much, if any, ground next year, especially if we can get some tilapia in there early season.

Thanks again for all the help in getting this one under control.


Todd La Neve

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Thanks Todd....and Greg, I will be in touch with spring being the target date.

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Hi everyone, I have been reading this post, what a great conversation thread. I have about a 3/4 acre pond with a watermeal problem. Usually complete coverage from march through november.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K5FsUQviPSAUBRnrN5srVA?feat=directlink

(sorry about the duck in the middle.. long story...)

The tank is clear now, due to it being winter.. there is a little watermeal left right along the bankline.

However, come March, it will come back.. I don't want it to. I want to get fish in the tank again (it's been years due to oxygen depletion).

Any thoughts? Nuke it with whitecap upon the first sign of it coming back and then stock with talapia? Can I nuke it now or is that a waste?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Jaymz

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Jaymz, welcome to PB! I'm not an expert on plant control so don't take what I have to say as gospel. I think you have to wait until the WM is growing, and then you have to keep the concentration of floridone in the correct range for a certain length of time for it to work.

Ain't that duck trying to swim upside down?? wink


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Watermeal and duckweed are mean critters. I would spray with flouridone and keep spraying until it is ALL gone. Then, and only then, would I add 30 or 40 pounds of tilapia. Tilapia can be helpful but not until the stuff is really under control. I wouldn't add anything that eats tilapia until the infestation is history.

The WM will re-propogate from the stuff you are now seeing. I think I would hit it now and keep hitting it as it tries to get another yearly start.

Disclaimer: I'm also not a pro. Like Esshup, just another pond junkie.


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Hey, Jaymz, welcome to the forum! Really sorry to see that you're faced with this incredibly frustrating issue, too. I feel your pain.

I waited till pretty late in the season to Whitecap my pond, as you probably know from reading this thread. It did work, though, and by late summer, the water was generally pretty clear. My plan is to hit it again in early spring at the time most plants are starting to emerge and try to nail it before it comes out. It's most susceptible to chemical intervention when it's in the growth stage, so hitting it early is better than waiting till later like I did. I don't regret having tried the other products first, but am convinced that the fluoridone is the best way to eradicate this stuff. I am guessing it may take a couple of seasons of chemical treatment to get ahead of it, but we'll just have to see. I am also hopeful that I can get some tilapia into the pond this year at the earliest possible date (hint, hint, hint, Rainman!) just in case they can help, too. In all likelihood, that's going to be at least 30 days apart.

An interesting thing I noted in this pond was that the Whitecap did wipe out all the other vegetation, too, till very late summer/early fall when I noticed some chara starting to grow back. Of course, fluoridone is going to have that effect and what made me notice it was that the YOY BG were getting hammered while we were at the farm as we would see LMB right up on the banks nailing little schools of them. I don't have much other cover in this pond at all and so the YOY fish had nowhere to hide, a situation I intend to remedy this year with at least one area of brush piles near the primary bedding sites. That's a point you may want to consider if you go the Whitecap route.

So, my recommendation, having gone through this now, is Whitecap as early as your growth season allows. Youse guys down in TX obviously have a different growing season than we do, so definitely hit that stuff before it has a chance to really emerge and grab hold again for this year.

Good luck with it and keep us posted on what you do. I, for one, will be very interested to see how it works out for you and may learn something from your experiences that will help me keep ahead on my own place this year.

PS - with that duck out there, you sure that isn't "duck"weed? grin


Todd La Neve

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Thanks everyone. I guess I will try the flouridone route, i'll have to price it out.. those list prices seem quite expensive!

I will certainly keep everyone updated. The duck is a long story, basically was out with shotgun one morning several years ago during the last weekend of duck season and shot it.. then realized I didn't have my dog with me. What ensues next is a coin flip between me and a buddy of who is going to swim in the 35 degree water filled with watermeal. If you really want to see the result, search youtube for "duck hunting without a dog". (Warning, there's some minor bad language as one would expect when swimming in really cold water.)

Anyhow....

The only thing I am still a little confused is how to apply. Considering the watermeal is at it's lowest right now (almost non existent) should I wait till it starts to come back and hit it topically or just go ahead and disperse it across the entire pond (which is only 1/2 acre or so anyhow)?

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Brrr!!

Here I thought I was going to see you swim back with it in your teeth! grin Where's the fishing rod when you need it?

I think the Fluridone needs to stay at a certain concentration in the pond (ppm) for a certain length of time for it to be effective. I don't know if spot treating would work.


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Wait until May, preferably after spring rains have subsided (for these two species). You'll probably have mature DW ad WM still/already on the surface, and newly germinating plants popping every day; which sets the stage for treatment-timing. Ideally, treat before the plants begin to produce more seeds.
I didn't read this thread's history; but, if this is your first season to treat, plan to treat again next season (same time) to catch any latent seeds that failed to germinate this season. Breaking the seed-production cycle is critical for long-term (multi-year) results. But, with transient waterfowl and turtles comes the possibility of new plant/seed introductions from adjacent bodies of water. So, no "permanent guarantees" even if you do everything perfectly from a treatment standpoint.

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Jaymz, Kelly is one of the forum's very experienced folks when it comes to aquatic vegetation, so take his advice as gospel!

As for how to apply the Whitecap, I just mixed mine according to the directions in a big bucket and then my wife and I went out in the canoe and she paddled as I spot poured. As we would move forward, she'd make sure to sweep the paddle right through the spot where I poured and create some mixing action. We took about 30 minutes to do this, using small spot pours literally all over the pond. When the bucket was empty, we both paddled and tried to get a lot of wave action going to help it spread. Obviously not the most efficient way to do it, but for what we had to work with, I feel like we got it pretty well mixed.


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Awesome. Thanks! We'll give it a go.

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As for applying fluridone: spot-treatments for small ponds and most lakes are a futile endeavor. No different than attempting to dye only a small area of a pond and expecting the dye to remain isolated in that spot for 4 to 6+ weeks. It won't!
The main objective with fluridone treatments is to get the product sub-surface, even if you're targeting floating weeds. Fluridone degrades rapidly if exposed to direct sunlight. So, definitely DON'T apply it in a topical manner (a la Roundup) to floating weeds.
Also, if you go to the extreme effort that Todd reported above, be careful where you lay that paddle for next several weeks - and DON'T lay it directly on your lawn. Also, if you step on any fluridone that inadvertently drips in your boat, be sure to thoroughly clean your shoes before walking across a lawn. Oh, and definitely don't drain your trailered-boat in a driveway that borders your lawn. And, if your lab loves to swim in the treated pond, be sure to keep him/her out until the product has thoroughly dispersed; or otherwise make sure said lab doesn't shake, lay or roll on your lawn. Did I mention that my lawn frequently has white spots and dead grass in unusual patterns (some even resemble footprints)? My wife still thinks our lawn is simply disease-prone. Isn't practical experience wonderful!


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IIRC 50F + water is suggested. I once put out some systemic and pulled up the john boat on land when finished , No grass for 2 years. Also you can use a hand sprayer (mix with water at suggested rate) and spray it under water as the boat moves along using the trolling motor to further mix it.

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My lab is a obsessive compulsive tank swimmer, so I will keep that in mind.

It's sad that I am going to have buy an old used canoe and spend some dough on whitecap just to get rid of a bloom smaller than a frog nipple.

Any suggestions on how much fluridone to purchase? Tank is probably 2/3 acre with average depth of 5-7 ft.

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1) Don't buy a canoe just for this purpose, unless you might have other uses for it down the road (such as collecting downed-ducks).
2) There are countless methods for effectively applying fluridone; some of which are rather unorthodox.
Gotta run to a scout meeting now, but I'll email you later...

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jay, 8 ounces should work for you since having less than 4 acft.
Follow rec. given when you start to see it actively growing this spring. I suggest actually lowering your pond level prior to treatments. Thanks http://lakework.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=135&parent=1, $10 off for PB members.



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And Jaymz, consider buying your Whitecap from Greg - great pricing and quick delivery!


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Hypothetically: If one lowers a pond's water level prior to a fluridone treatment and the pond level fails to adequately rise to normal pool-level during the product's post-treatment period-of-activity (say, 60 to 90 days); OR, the pond rises abruptly and discharges a large % of treated water several weeks after the treatment, what happens to any existing DW & WM seeds that were produced the prior season, but were stranded above the water-line during the post-treatment window of fluridone's activity?
I'm stating some potential concerns as a question...

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Good thought Kelly but with spring treatment in the SE never been left high and dry. Just a method of buying some capacity of the pond to add water but the flouridoen not leave the pond the first rain you get.


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Oh, I generally agree with the concept of lowering the water level to allow more in-flow capacity, especially where spring-rains are relatively guaranteed. The same approach is often used over here. But, we'll occasionally run out of fluridone-activity before the pond-level rises sufficiently to inundate all seed-laden areas; prompting a resurgance of either pest when it eventually does so.
I just thought it appropriate to make folks aware of all possibilities.
Bottom line: there's risk to either approach, but generally less risk with the pre-treat level-drop. A reduced fluridone concentration in confined water is always preferable to a higher concentration in discharging treated water (yikes).
If dropping the pond's level prior to the treatment isn't an option, using a split-treatment technique (Two 1/2-doses @ 3 week intervals) might provide added insurance against an untimely flow-through event.

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BTW - there is a newly registered herbicide that shows promise on watermeal (and possibly duckweed) without the long contact-time required by fluridone; with little - if any irrigation restriction.
The downside (always a downside) is that the new product is short-lived once applied. So, unlike fluridone's lengthy period of activity (which continues to control weeds from newly germinating seeds for several weeks or months), this new herbicide might require more than one treatment per season. BUT, spot-treatments might be possible. Still much to learn..... More details to follow later this spring.

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Thanks everyone. I've ordered the whitecap and will start the process when everything comes to bloom. I'll start a new thread and update everyone on the progress. I've bordering on inadverdently hijacking this one smile

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Thanks for the order I saw it go out today.


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So I know this is an old thread, but i'm saving the whitecap for emergencies and going to stock tilapia this weekend (assuming the weather cooperates with me) first. Small tank, but we shall see how it goes.

As a fun side project I'm going to chronicle this watermeal removal adventure here: http://www.texas-hunting.org/community/blog/an-exercise-in-fixing-a-farm-tank-part-i.html

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No watermeal so far this year, but we have a load of FA and curly leaf pondweed. I know the curly leaf dies off fairly quickly, but there is a ton of it this year. We also have some American Pond Weed, which I like, but it's going to be sacrificed as I'm doing Whitecap today in order to get ahead of any watermeal this year. I would prefer a more natural option, but the reality seems to be that this pond is so old and in a state of eutrophication that I just don't have many other options beyond draining and dredging. So, Whitecap it is and with luck, we'll avoid watermeal this year. Thanks again, Greg, for the sale.


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