Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants Watermeal Spreading Quickly

Todd so you sprayed 12 gallons of mix? Man see that to me seems like way too much even with weedtrine. I thought with your size pond and coverage a 3 gallon mix should be plenty. I must spray faster. I hope with that much money spent you see major difference.

No, only one gallon of total mix, Greg. Not sure if I typed something incorrectly or not, but just used the gallon of water and 10 oz. of the Weedtrine, kind of a compromise between what you and Pond Frog were suggesting. I'll adjust as needed when I see what effect this treatment has. Yeah, 12 gallons of Weedtrine in a small pond would sure be a bunch, huh?!

Thanks, Rex. Makes sense. I guess if I didn't have anything else to eat, I'd probably eat watermeal at some point, too! And I've already demonstrated the hazards of reproducing with my own kids!

The wind may have helped you in some ways, and hurt you in others. It's good to get it stacked, but since you are using contact herbicide you may have missed a lot under the surface. I would not have sprayed twice in the same day. But the good part is probably most of the herbicide will end up where it is supposed to, on a lot of mealweed. There are two things I try to put off in the wind, burning and spraying.

Greg, I know whatyou are saying, and I have gone above manufacturers specs when I am under the gun to get something done. But when you have a DIY like Todd on his own pond taking his time I think it is best to start off light. Otherwise you will never know how effective the lower concentrate is. In most applications I tend to overkill, but when I know I am repsraying, I start off light just to see what the minimum I can get away with. Why spray away with a 3-4% when .5 might do just about the same? Especially with a contact herbicide. It is kind of like the no pond is the same deal. No herbicide application is the same. If you start off heavy, you may just be wasting product and money without even knowing it. Takes the same amount of time to spray either way. The kicker is the excess active ingrediant in the water. Diquat is not exactly a selective herbicide, as has been mentioned here. Collateral damage is not a good thing here.

Todd ok I read it to read you used the entire gallon of weedtrine thus my confusion. Whew I thought I created a monster.

PF not wanting to argue we are just discussing and we both know that. However I do not feel Im going any higher than label directions for active ingredient- just mixing differently. The amount of active ingredient of diquat is not even close to max dose with the amount he is applying. I look at overall active ingredient in the water and based on watermeal experiecne using 1/2 oz of reward per gallon wil result in pretty much nada. so...higher mixing rate but overall less than 2 gallons per weeded acre. I hear you though about starting slow.

So I got back to town today and went to the farm. No change in the watermeal was evident, though I would guess some of it was impacted by the mix I used.

This time I mixed a gallon of water with 20 oz. Weedtrine D, 1 oz. Adjuvant, and 3 oz. Cutrine D. I got the canoe out and, as the watermeal was pretty much spread all over and not too windblown, I paddled across the entire pond and misted the mixture onto as much of the growth as I could.

By the time I finished a couple of hours of mowing, all of the American Pondweed, which I had sprayed pretty heavily, was brown or going that direction. I did not see any change in the watermeal, but am hoping that within a couple of days I'll see that it was also affected. I'm going to take out a dirt rake in the next few days and rake out as much of the rooted vegetation as I can. I'll get some more pics that, with a little luck, will be good "after" pics.

I hope it works out for you Todd.

Thanks, Travis. So do I. It's really frustrating having the pond in its current condition because it's ugly and pretty well unusable unless there's a good wind blowing that bunches all the WM up on one side or the other. I'll end up out there again tomorrow to see if there's any change.

If no change Todd you are spining your wheels. I really would not waste my time when it is spread thin, tough for coverage. Also more likely to kill your plants you like if sprayign all over. Man i hope it starts working for you.

Thanks, Greg. I'm hoping it starts working as well. I'm going to try to get out there this afternoon and see if anything is different. As I mentioned last night, it did seem to kill the American PW almost immediately, where it did not have any effect on it before. So, I'm hoping the higher concentration of chemicals is going to be effective this time. I'm resigned to the reality that it may require me killing the plants I'm not necessarily targeting in order to kill the WM, and if that's what it takes, then I'm okay with it. I just need to get the WM under control so I get to the point that I can just spot treat.

I've actually warmed a lot to the idea of gradually killing off all the growth in there right now and then planting desirable plants that will help use up nutrients. I'm intrigued by the water hyacinth that I've read about in some other posts, as well as lillies. I just want to make sure that if I go this route, I get some good plants are are early emergers so they start using up nutrients before the FA can really try to take off.

My suspicion is that a lot of my nutrient load comes from the numerous Canada Geese that call this pond home at least part of the time. A few times since last August I've seen a flock of probably close to 200 swimming in my little 1/2 acre pond and when I think of as much as 4 pounds of poop from each one of them per day mixing into my water, my blood boils. So far, shooting the water near them has made the place seem pretty inhospitable, and I intend to continue being a jerk towards them!

When does goose season open?

The moment I see one of those dirty bastiches on my farm! What happens in the country stays in the country!

I like the pondweed and i think if sprayed on the surface to kill WM you will not kill any pondweed that is a ways away.

I don't mind the pondweed either, but it had WM all through it so it got sprayed directly. Like I said, at this point I'll sacrifice whatever is needed to get rid of the WM. Didn't make it out today and now it's pouring rain, so maybe on Sunday. Hoping for some good plant death!

Greg, you once told me that reproduction rate on DW and WM. Can you give it again?

Todd -- I didn't realize you had a goose problem too.

Maybe we can sneak a bunch of them from your place to my place. We'll drag them onto my next door neighbor's property in Virginia, where I think there is an unlimited bag limit.

At work they are a real nuisance and hazard. We have two buildings that are across the street from each other. We are right near the Deer Slayer Mark Brown's office -- where wildlife rules within a major urban area.

We have a Fairfax County pond between our two buildings. We have to have the carpets cleaned regularly at work because of all the geese that pollute our sidewalks and parking lots -- and our shoes. They constantly try to intimidate us as we go from building to building. I just hope that one of Travis's co-worker's (they have a precinct office across the road from us) doesn't have to detain me some morning when I get caught kicking one of those miserable hissing feathered critters in the head as I try to get into the door at work.

In any case, I've got some good recipes.

Most of the time, watermeal is the last weed standing. And things that kill duckweed might have no effect on watermeal. Nuke the entire pond with Fluridone and start over. Put some new plants in to prevent nutrients from starting the entire process over. I don't think bumping up the concentration of active ingrediant is going to get done what you want. In fact, you may actually end up helping the watermeal by killing off everything it competes with.

I think self-defense would be a justifiable reason to carry a golf club to work. No need to let them get within kicking distance. FORE!!! Hang them for a bit, neck down, then get to cleaning.

PF, I hope that's not what I find when I get out there on Sunday. But, if need be, I'll go nuclear and wipe it all out. I've been giving a lot of thought to going the desirable plant route and will likely do that. I just want to see what happens here first, though.

If I escalate the fight, what sort of fluoridone product do you suggest I use for the kill off?

I am not surprised!

They have been a little less present lately, maybe because I shoot around them. But having been out of town a bunch the past couple of weeks has emboldened them. There is crap and feathers everywhere right now, but another series of lead projectiles recently reminded them that they are not welcome. It's going to get ugly when I break out the AR-15 and see how many rounds I can connect with. Then I'll be driving over to your place, so make sure you have plenty of beer batter ready to roll! Or whatever it is that we'll do to cook up the evidence!

Whitecap is the most effective for the price. Sonar and Avast are overpriced same deal. Where Diquat based stuff will normally wipe duckweed out, that damn watermeal just sits there and absorbs it. Ot maybe does not absorb it, that could be why contact herbicides have less than desirable results on watermeal. Of course, I hope whatever you try works out for you. Just in my experience watermeal is one tough hombre to knockdown. And duckweed is is close, but just not the same. I'd Judgement Day the watermeal.

Thanks. My neighbor uses Whitecap and has no vegetation at all in his pond. He doses it annually, then uses it to touch up now and again. He said he recently wiped out some WM that had started to appear. It was evidently gone the next day and hasn't showed up again since. I'll find out what my situation is on Sunday.

If you go back to the start of this thread you will see why Todd decided to go the diquat route. Based on cost and possibly saving some plants. There was lots of debate here. If me I would go with flouridone- it is not me so I gave advice. Todd call me for our best whitecap cost if you wish but no way I would do that cost in middle of summer I would wait until spring. I have many clients use floridone at the the 90 ppb level and not rid of watermeal either- mad as heck at money spent. Protocol for this is early spring and lowering your pond to buy you residual time.

fyi- we treat about 200 ponds a year times many years. I tried to give my advice on how to acheive watermeal control with diquat with rates and frequency based on severla past experiences. It is not easy but very doable. Also being that it is a contact herbicide other plants lived through it because putting a more concentrated mix right on problem watermeal not all aroudn the pond. Overalll diquat concentration in the pond minimal and overall cost minimal. After the intitial knockdown of water meal it usually takes very few gallons of mix.

So do with this info as you may I try to not get in arguements but I do not give advice based on my one pond or hypothetical situation it is real world. I take time when I see where I think I can help with free advice and hope it helps.

Todd keep it up but ironic after being clear your goals it is swithcing back to I would use Flouridone already. It is a process that takes mutiple treatments and no idea on using a lower concentration diquat at less rates how manyt treatmetns it will take. My mindset woudl be at least I keep it form taking over and killing my fish with oxygen cras. Tough in this heat for sure, good luck.

Awesome post Greg, could not have said it better. In my opinion Todd had a goal that was unattainable. Watermeal is barely treatable with anything but Fluridone. And it is almost impossible to spot treat and save other plants, it is the strongest of all of them.

Summer is possibly too late after heavy infestation. Best to tackle it with Fluridone first emergence in Spring. I was under the impression it was not a very large pond, but even at that, high costs and retreatment this time of year are almost inevitable. Me, personally, would nuke the pond with Fluridone, kill them all and retreat if I had to, in the Spring. I'd manually skim it for now to avoid the crash.

Greg and PF, thanks for the follow up thoughts. I finally made it out to the pond yesterday after doing my second treatment (which I suspect was much more effective and broad than the first) and noticed what I believe may be a reduction of 1/2 to 1/3 of the watermeal. I don't think it was just an illusion with wind bunching, but rather was real progress. I didn't have the opportunity to re-treat yesterday, but will likely do so again this week or the coming weekend. I will probably use about the same mix of chemicals as this last treatment, though I may get bold and go a little heavier on the diquat.

As far as the timing factor goes for optimal treatment, I agree with you guys completely that early in the season is by far the best time. Circumstances discouraged me from using chemicals early this year and now I'm paying for it, but it looks like I made progress so I'll keep working at it and see if I can keep a semi-usable pond for the remainder of the warm season. Next year, it will be hit from the outset in early spring to hopefully knock out the possibility of the WM emerging in force again. And I will probably want to try the Whitecap/fluoridone route and will pick that up through you, Greg.

In the meantime, my goals do seem to have changed since my first post as I have become very enamored of the idea of doing some plantings of desirable plant species. I hadn't really given that much thought previously and, frankly, have always sort of overlooked those threads or magazine articles as they just weren't of interest. Now, however, the idea of using some good species that will help use up nutrients early to combat the undesirable things is actually really interesting. To that end, I may well just blast the whole pond (PF, it's only a 1/2 acre pond at best), kill what's there, and then start with lillies and stuff like that.

Again, guys, I really appreciate all the help you've both offered in this thread and I will continue to post any progress here.