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#220812 06/08/10 09:41 PM
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My pond had issues with algea, previously.

Through changes in what's getting into the pond, adding aeration, and a one time application of Cutrine, I've greatly reduce the algea.

Now, though, Duckweed has taken over.

I'm happy that it reduces the chances of more algea, by keeping out light. Is there a reason I should have it more controlled, other than for aestetics?

Any negative effects to having fish, because of it, when I do get it stocked?

I hate to use more chemicals.

Jeffrey D. #220884 06/09/10 11:04 AM
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Duckweed chokes out everything including underwater plants that create oxygen. All the oxygen the duckweed gives off during photosynthesis just goes right up into the air.

I had duckweed. I aerated, I added pond dye, I added muck-eating enzymes to cut down on the nutrients the duckweed was feeding on. VERY LIMITED success.

I ended up killing the duckweed by adding whitecap/sonar in the early spring before it started to bloom. Very good success--hardly any duckweed anywhere. My 2nd year I hit it again with another application--this time the watermeal is zapped too.

Controlling algae without duckweed starts with pond dye. Keep the sunlight out by filtering out the wavelengths of light algae use to photosynthesize.

Other than that, if you hit it with sonar once and then let it die and get out of your way, a big fountain or bubbling aerator might agitate the water enough to keep it from growing back but it will still grow at the edges.

I hate to use chemicals too but duckweed produces so much volume of weed that it's really annoying. i could scoop out wheelbarrows of it EVERY DAY and not keep up. The stuff multiplies amazingly fast.


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Bennie #220978 06/09/10 06:00 PM
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Thanks Bennie.

Might think about using Sonar. I haven't stocked any fish yet, so maybe it would behoove me to do it now?

Or, should I wait 'til spring, you think, and get it when it starts?

hoping to get some fish in the hole, yet, this year.

Jeffrey D. #221170 06/10/10 04:00 PM
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I would do both. It's early enough in the season to get results and enjoy it. Knock it out this year and clean up the dead stuff. Then do it in the spring to keep it from forming. Make sure you continue to aerate, dye the pond, and attack sources of nutrients.


Bennie
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Bennie #221213 06/10/10 09:09 PM
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Alrighty, thanks for the advice.

The only part of it I might question is the dye, and that's only because I've gotton conflicting advice.(I don't know enough, myself, to have an opinion on it).

I had added dye this spring, but stopped at the advice of someone here, and the DNR guy who checked out my pond. I understand how it works, but don't completely understand the negatives.

I definately will continue with the aeration and have reduced nutrient input.

Jeff

Jeffrey D. #221299 06/11/10 11:04 AM
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I'm using dye on a regular basis now. It's what some customers ask for. I have tried the so called super strength off brands, but prefer the results of Aquashade.

It does block sunlight, good for underwater plants. I have some decent pink flowered pondweed and lilies in one pond, so they make it through to the surface and provide more shade. It seems to really knock back algae, especially algae that starts on the bottom. Slows down other plants also. But it will hurt beneficial blooms. Things that naturally fight algae. It does interrupt the natural ecosystem.

The water does turn blue or blackish, I guess that is a personal preference kind of deal. Mostly it is organic, and nontoxic. I think long term usage it would reduce nutrients.

There is a very good thread about duckweed here already. Gives a lot of great advice and solutions. If you are against chemicals, and many of my clients are, I'd go with a beneficial bacteria. They eat up nutrients and balance ponds organically. At the same time you might want to encourage plankton blooms, or try some bales. Duckweed is a disaster for many reasons. Mainly killing off everything underneath of it and massive )2 depletion plus one of the worst internal loading plants there is. I'd take almost any algae over it. I think you need to start working at the source which sounds like excessive nutrients.

Last edited by The Pond Frog; 06/11/10 11:06 AM.
The Pond Frog #221374 06/11/10 08:15 PM
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Pond Frog, two things that concern me about the chemical (Sonar) method.

First is it's price. I just priced it, and It's alot more than I would've guessed.

Second, is it mentions not to be within 1/4 mile of portable water intakes. I'm not sure what that means but my dug well is not too far from my pond, like maybe 100ft. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, though?

Right now I think I'm gonna use a net, go out in the caneo, and see if I can't get most of it cleard off the surface that way.

thanks for the other info, too.

Jeff

Jeffrey D. #221979 06/15/10 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jeffrey D.
Pond Frog, two things that concern me about the chemical (Sonar) method.

First is it's price. I just priced it, and It's alot more than I would've guessed.

Second, is it mentions not to be within 1/4 mile of portable water intakes. I'm not sure what that means but my dug well is not too far from my pond, like maybe 100ft. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, though?

Right now I think I'm gonna use a net, go out in the caneo, and see if I can't get most of it cleard off the surface that way.

thanks for the other info, too.

Jeff



I wondered the same thing about the water warning. Anybody know what this actually means?

2trackin #222188 06/16/10 09:25 PM
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Found this stuff: http://www.killlakeweeds.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_products&product_ID=61

I'm gonna give it a try.

1 gallon should do a pond my size(0.18 acre). With Cide Kick II, and a sprayer, it still is way less than a pint of Sonar.

Anyone ever thy this product?

I already ordered it, so to late to change my mind.

Jeffrey D. #222200 06/16/10 10:07 PM
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I used Weedtrine with Cidekick full power, no dilution and it didn't even phase the DW I sprayed. Last week I Used Reward + Cidekick and it burned them up fast! All water is different so it's worth a try though.

SK63 #222273 06/17/10 10:47 AM
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Supposedly flouridone is the best treatment for duckweed. Sonar and Avast are SePro are the expensive varieites, Whitecap has the same active ingrediant and % for about 25% less. Diquat will work, so will 2,4-D. If you are looking for the cheapest per acre cost, I think 2,4-D is it.

The Pond Frog #222275 06/17/10 10:57 AM
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PF, is it a safe bet that these will also work on water meal as it's pretty much the same thing as duckweed (I think?)?


Todd La Neve

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Todd3138 #222288 06/17/10 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Todd3138
PF, is it a safe bet that these will also work on water meal as it's pretty much the same thing as duckweed (I think?)?


Flouridone is just about the only option I would use on watermeal. You would think it is a safe bet, but it's not. The only thing they have in common is they float. Diquat kind of works on it and the rest are poor or not much effect. Some people say flouridone only for watermeal. I also thought watermeal is just itty bitty duckweed, but I guess it is much harder to get it to take in certain ingrediants.

The Pond Frog #222291 06/17/10 12:10 PM
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Interesting. I'd have thought they were basically the same thing. Thanks for the input.


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Todd3138 #222293 06/17/10 12:14 PM
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I posted this elsewhere, but it might be worth repeating here. I see some folks talking about Sonar. This stuff is STRONG, so be careful. I had a "professional" treat 16 acres with it because of a bad coontail and duckweed issue. I didn't know yet what to do, as I had just bought the land, and I didn't have any equipment for applying anything yet. I even had him scale back the amount, because I was afraid of overkill. It did the intended job. Boy, did it! Coontail and duckweed were gone a few months later, as were pretty much all other weeds and grasses. It killed lillypads, cattails, everything. THEN, the lake froze over in what truned out to be a long, hard winter, and there wasn't anything in the lake to make oxygen. We had a pretty substantial fish kill, and lost thousands of bluegill and bass. Populations are recovering (fish and weeds), but you have to be VERY careful with herbicides this strong. If I had it to do again, and I might eventually have to, I'd use about half or so, and reapply later if need be.

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Todd, that is pretty much verbatim for my ol favorite Ohio State fact sheets. And yes, Flouridone is as nasty as it is expensive. I tend to use it way less then full strength, and only when I want everything in the water dead. You have to be very careful putting it in any body of water with lots of fish before the Summer. The only reason I use it to nail duckweed and especially watermeal is they are going to kill everything anyway, and you have a chance of not killing phytoplankton with Flouridone, where any pond blanket will totally block sunlight and kill it dead for sure. I think it is the most misused herbicide by professionals there is. A little goes a long ways and you really have to wait it out, plus, it sticks from one to two seasons depending on flows. I have seen guys second dose it for some reason, faster results or overkill and boy does it ever.

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Jeffrey D. #222795 06/20/10 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jeffrey D.
Second, is it mentions not to be within 1/4 mile of portable water intakes. I'm not sure what that means but my dug well is not too far from my pond, like maybe 100ft. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, though?


So, does anyone know what this means???

2trackin #223683 06/27/10 08:55 AM
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Has anyone tried NT-Max Biological Water digester???? There website is very vague. Not to thread jack, just looking for the best product for my duckweed.....

chadman154 #223729 06/27/10 03:02 PM
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Best product for duckweed is a slow release Fluridone, name brand or not. You want to kill the emergent and the preemergent as well. Once you knock it down or out, then try methods to prevent it. Much different from eradication. 2,4-D and Diquat work as well, but a lot of times you need to retreat because of the new growth that was hidden from the first treatment. So factor that into your overall costs.

The Pond Frog #224910 07/05/10 09:24 PM
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Just an update on my duckweed.

I used the weedtrine-D(diquat), at about 1/2 the rate recommended, and it did kill my duckweed, or it's only a coincidence, and the duckweed was dying anyways?

I still have some floating, but most(maybe 75-80%) has gone, and what is still floating is gold coloured instead of green, now. I'm assuming that means it's dead?

I will spray it right away, again, if I see any green duckweed pop up.

So, as far as I can judge, the Weedtrine-D did work.

I also used it to kill the cattails directly around my dock.

Jeffrey D. #224922 07/05/10 10:11 PM
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Hello everyone! Been having a problem with duckweed too. My pond is 70X400' been looking at skimmers to remove the stuff. Came accross the Pond Hippo. looks good. cost about $2500. I don't want to use chemicals. Too many Koi,turtles,frogs in the pond. Don't want to harm the critters. May try to build one using a trash pump. Take a look at there website. Looks like it can handle anything!

Jeffrey D. #224932 07/05/10 10:28 PM
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Hey, that's great news, Jeff! Congrats on the success. I am not going to make it back to my pond as soon as I had hoped, so I'm not sure what to expect when I get there and check out my watermeal situation. I treated it with the Weedtrine D as well and am anxious to see how it's working out. I'll have a lot more to treat, I suspect, as I probably only got to spray maybe 25% of it at most, but I wanted to move cautiously and avoid any DO crash issues.

Have any before and after pics?


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Todd3138 #224937 07/05/10 11:09 PM
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TMTD, I'm very apprehensive about using chemicals, myself.

Obviously, I've given into the temptation. Hope it's not a mistake in the long run, big picture, whatever.

Todd, I'll take a pic tomorrow. Think I have a "before" pic here, somewhere.

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Jeffrey D. #224988 07/06/10 10:18 AM
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[quote=Jeffrey D.]Just an update on my duckweed.

I used the weedtrine-D(diquat), at about 1/2 the rate recommended, and it did kill my duckweed, or it's only a coincidence, and the duckweed was dying anyways?

I still have some floating, but most(maybe 75-80%) has gone, and what is still floating is gold coloured instead of green, now. I'm assuming that means it's dead?

I will spray it right away, again, if I see any green duckweed pop up.

So, as far as I can judge, the Weedtrine-D did work.

I also used it to kill the cattails directly around my dock.


[Quote]


I think that is the way to do it. Always try that first spray at very low %. You can see if it has success, and if so continue and respray at very low concentrations. Yes, the yellow stuff is indeed dying and dead. Duckweed does not go yellow this time of year. And Weedtrine D is the lower of the diquats compared to Reward.

Bear in mind Todd the success he achieves with duckweed may or may not translate to watermeal.

I might have just done 1/2 or less of the material. Nobody wants a crash. And that stuff works so fast it can happen. Plus Diquot should not harm too many pond critters. I would wait a bit to let the dead material seperate from the live, it should on its own especially with some surface action in a good wind. Then finish off the rest on the surface. Eventually more will pop to the surface from the bottom, nail that as soon as it emerges. Great job!




Last edited by The Pond Frog; 07/06/10 10:21 AM.
The Pond Frog #225001 07/06/10 11:16 AM
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Thanks Pond Frog, although I may have been misleading in the way I said I used it @ 50% rate.

Weedtrine recommends a 25:1 mix ratio @ 130 gallons of mix per acre, for Duckweed. My pond is approx 1/4 acre, so that would mean 1.3gallons of Weedtrine-D mixed with 32.5 gallons water.

I ulimately used 2 quarts Weedtrine, mixed with 12 gallons water, & 4oz of Cide-Kick. That would work out to a 24:1 ratio (close to recommended) but I applied it at <50% of recommended.

So I spray at the recommended ratio, but applied at < half rate. I believe, in hind site, that mixing at half ratio and applying at full rate(like you said) would give a higher chance of working. Better wetting. Luckily it worked for me, the way I did it. I thought wetting seemed good, but had never done it before?


Nice part is, I still have 2 quarts Weedtrine left for future use. grin

Here's a pic from this morning.

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Jeffrey D. #225085 07/06/10 09:29 PM
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Wow, great looking results, Jeff! Congrats!

Thanks for the additional tip, PF.


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Todd3138 #226263 07/13/10 03:31 PM
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Some of the Duckweed has turned green, and I was going to reapply the Diquat before it got out of hand, again, but I have 9 ducks that appear to be eating the duckweed around the ponds edges?

I hadn't noticed them eating the Duckweed before, nor them even being around last time I sprayed.

I don't want to poison the ducks. If I sprayed the Duckweed and the ducks ate it, it certainly couldn't be good for them, no?

If the Ducks are really eating it might I let them do the DW control, for now?

Also, I'd swear I saw a duck eating a leech. It certainly looked like a leech. Do ducks eat leeches, anyone know?

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That is a great after photo, surface looks great. Problem with ducks/geese is they tend to bring stuff like duckweed and worse watermeal in. Only ducks I like are Daffy and Donald. If the rest got a case of fast acting lead poisoning would not hurt my feelings. Will they eat leeches? I don't think that is up there and thier food preference chart. They prefer seeds and millet. Depending on what type they are, daubers especially. Diquat can be harmful to birds. I try to avoid collateral damage when spraying if you must ask. But I would not want my pond to be a haven for waterfowl either.

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Thanks PF.

Hope I don't sound like some sort of PETA freak, here, but......

Currently, I like the idea of having the ducks around.

If I didn't, though, I'd still not want to poison them without knowing that the poison would work as intended. Would never want to see ducks, or any animal, suffer needlessly, if I can help it.(which I believe you also hinted at)

Shooting them I'd have no issue's with. That's fast, and IMO, humane.

But, for now, they're safe. wink



Last edited by Jeffrey D.; 07/13/10 05:06 PM.
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i used reward on my duckweed and it was gone with in a few days, i did not have much on the pond. My mix ratio was 12 oz reward to 2 gal h20. Worked very well also took care of some milfoil looking weeds. I scooped it out with a pool skimmer tool. Here is a photo 2 weeks after the fist treatment. (ignore the mess on the edges, pond was dredged this spring and continuing work on it)

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chadman154 #227629 07/22/10 04:06 PM
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Nice looking results, Chadman. Did you spray the mixture directly onto your DW or just pour it into the water around the pond?


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Todd3138 #228187 07/25/10 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Todd3138
Nice looking results, Chadman. Did you spray the mixture directly onto your DW or just pour it into the water around the pond?



14 oz to 2 gallon is a sprayer and just sprayed it on..... then scooped it with a pool skimmer. stuff works great

chadman154 #228235 07/26/10 07:36 AM
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Thanks for clarifying. After re-reading your other post, I remembered that Reward is diquat based and, from what Greg Grimes told me, diquat is a contact herbicide, so pouring it into the water would have been a waste! Again, congrats on getting the problem under control.


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Todd3138 #228237 07/26/10 07:44 AM
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if you would pour 12-14 oz per 2 gal of water in your pond, 1st you would go broke and 2nd i think you would kill everything in your neighbors pond 10 miles away.....

chadman154 #228239 07/26/10 07:47 AM
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Makes sense! Again, I was thinking it was a water column based herbicide then realized it was diquat, which is contact based. Definitely a big difference and at the prices I've seen for Reward (even with Greg's generous discounts for PB members), you'd better have a fat wallet to just pour it in!


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Jeffrey D. #229182 08/01/10 02:46 PM
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Gentlemen,
after much thought, I added sonar to my one acre pond in an effort to get rid ofthat awful duckweed. Does anyone know how long it will take to see some improvement?


BTC
Brian Callanan #229191 08/01/10 06:35 PM
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Watch for the DW to start turning white/gray. It takes a while at least a week to start the process.
















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Had lots of watermeal and now.....*** What happens when it turns water grey/white film?

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Thanks for the info, its been about 9 days now and the only difference I see is that it looks like there are swirls in it, it does look thinner but its not white....


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Brian Callanan #229263 08/02/10 09:34 AM
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Sonar (Fluridone) is notorious slow acting. You are not going to see fast results like a contact herbicide like reward. It does not work that way. You are better off remaining patient and thinking 45-90 horizon. Keep the ppm in specs and it will kill it all.

The Pond Frog #229274 08/02/10 09:50 AM
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To be clear "start the process " means first seeing any change in the DW (white/gray edges to the plant). I have never seen DW initially killed off (surface cleared) in less than 30 days. That does not mean it is dead as its seeds will float up and start over. That is why , as PF says , you need to keep the ppm up to get those floating seeds. That can easily take another 30 -60 days. Even after that you should be ready to spot treat with contact herbicide to get any residual DW.
















Bennie #231143 08/16/10 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bennie
Duckweed chokes out everything including underwater plants that create oxygen. All the oxygen the duckweed gives off during photosynthesis just goes right up into the air.

I had duckweed. I aerated, I added pond dye, I added muck-eating enzymes to cut down on the nutrients the duckweed was feeding on. VERY LIMITED success.

I ended up killing the duckweed by adding whitecap/sonar in the early spring before it started to bloom. Very good success--hardly any duckweed anywhere. My 2nd year I hit it again with another application--this time the watermeal is zapped too.

Controlling algae without duckweed starts with pond dye. Keep the sunlight out by filtering out the wavelengths of light algae use to photosynthesize.

Other than that, if you hit it with sonar once and then let it die and get out of your way, a big fountain or bubbling aerator might agitate the water enough to keep it from growing back but it will still grow at the edges.

I hate to use chemicals too but duckweed produces so much volume of weed that it's really annoying. i could scoop out wheelbarrows of it EVERY DAY and not keep up. The stuff multiplies amazingly fast.


I have an update question--yes, I successfully zapped my duckweed and watermeal, but I'm getting algae around the outskirts. In my opinion, it's a lot easier to mechanically remove and compost since it's pretty manageable.

My question is to you experienced pond owners--is algae floating on the surface cumulative year over year? Will the surface algae expand without treament or removal? I can stand a little around the perimeter but don't want it taking over.

Thanks!


Bennie
LMB, HBG, YP, CC, FHM, located SE Michigan
1/3 acre 8-9' deep, aerated 24/7 1/4 hp rocking piston
brian carter #231144 08/16/10 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: brian carter
Had lots of watermeal and now.....*** What happens when it turns water grey/white film?



Watermeal needs a higher dose of sonar/whitecap than duckweed. More like 90 parts/billion. Mine went away on my 2nd annual application of duckweed-strength sonar, around 40-50 ppb.

translated: my pond is 1/3 acre and I only use 8 oz per year. (which I think is enough to treat 1/4 acre but I err on the side of caution).


Bennie
LMB, HBG, YP, CC, FHM, located SE Michigan
1/3 acre 8-9' deep, aerated 24/7 1/4 hp rocking piston
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