Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Value of Snails?

This may be a stupid question but I am interseted in opinions. When I first stocked my new 2 ac. pond Sept '05 I put 200 snails that i purchased from a hatchery in it. Sometime after that I added about 50 more from a local pond. When I drained the pond last month to repair a leak there were literally thousands of snails crawling to stay in the water. It was amazing how many there were.

Can you have too many snails? If so what is the consequence? What eats the mature snails in deep water? When I restock should I go with another 200 to start?

I had a problem getting an algae bloom before even with aggressive fertilization and never got water clarity below 4'. I also had an unwanted BB population.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Red Ear Sunfish (RES) seem an obvious choice. They are known to be prolific snail hunters, hence their nickname "shell crackers."

Snails can be bad news. They can be hosts for numerous parasites and even get them from birds and pass them on to your fish. If you swim in your pond, they can give you a nice dose of swimmer's itch.

My favorite bg/sf, the RES. Shellcrackers at least keep them down if not out. Although I think there is a place for every critter in every pond, I'm not a big fan of snails. I agree with JHAP. You just can't get too many RES.

What about freshwater drum? I don't know if there's a source out there, but maybe there should be. They eat snails, produce floating eggs (per Travis), which makes me think predation would keep a population down, plus they're a great sport and table fish. Anyone considered this?

About the time I made my initial fish stocking, I had a huge snail infestation. I could swipe a dip
net, and catch 20-50 on each swipe. 3 years later, I rarely catch one. I do have RES, though I have
trouble believing they ate that many snails. For a while, I had 3 mallards constantly dabbling
around the banks, but finally ran them off. Or maybe they ate all the snails and decided to leave
on their own. I have a pretty large crawfish population, so maybe they helped too.

OK. So are the snails good or bad?

Let me rephrase this. In the opinion of experts would you stock a pond with snails or not? is there a problem with having a lot of snails?

PF mentioned the primary problem with snails, Bill Cody has mentioned this in the past as well. Snails can be hosts to parasites that can effect your fish. In addition, as PF said, this can give you "swimmers itch." We use to have that problem in our pond. Once we added RES the problem was greatly diminished - in fact we haven't had any of the "swimmers itch" since we added the RES.

I don't recall anyone "stocking" snails in the past. That's not to say that it isn't done - - it's just not common.

If your pond were mine I'd add RES to get rid of the snails.

Hold on for more opinions.

Zetts in WV sells Japanese Trapdoor, Pond and Ramshorn snails.
Bullheads too! JHAP, want to send a care package to Sunil?

To answer the question, I can't think of anything good about any species that can be considered a parasite.

All the snails will be dead as I am redoing the bottom to fix a leak. I had thousands of snails in there from the original stocking. I was wondering if there is a benefit to stocking snails again when I refill the pond or simply leave them out?

Mark, I'd say your best bet is to just leave them out. Plenty of downsides to them and, unless you have fish or other species that eat them, not really any upsides, unless you like the red welt look and fish with weird appendages hanging off of them from parasitic growth!

Seriously, I think there's been enough input here to convince me that the snails I have in my pond - they were already there, I didn't put them in - are going to have a date with some RES beginning this year possibly.

Like esshup mentioned, Zetts over near Martinsburg sells snails, but is the only fish supplier I've seen that actually recommends snails in several of their stocking "packages." I don't think I'd put them back in, though, if I were you.

Go Mountaineers! Less than 3 months to kickoff!

Tempting but I'm in the process of procuring an order of Pacific Banana Slugs and turning them into Banana Slug jerky for Sunil.

I know he likes his jerky.

Not.

Yes, there can be many problems already mentioned.

I got the original snails - and BB from Zett's. That's 2 strikes against them. Why on earth would they recommend snails when all I hear are negatives?

Todd, I went to BE tournament, Syracuse and Indy for the final 4> I am not sure I am emotionally ready yet for football.

Snails I think have a role in an aquairium setting for algae control, but no clue why they'd be recommended for a pond ecosystem. I'd stock RES ASAP - they will make quick work of the population.

How awesome is that, Mark! Glad to hear you made those trips - I'm envious! And because I DIDN'T go to any of those venues, I am absolutely ready for football season!

$$$ easy money.

On what, PF? WVU football or WVU basketball?!

I think he meant it was easy money for the hatchery to sell me snails when I posed the rhetorical question about why would they sell them to me if they create problems-not our sports teams.

Just curious.....Can you boil and eat them???

Now I know more about snails than I ever wanted to.

If they're like what's in my pond, the biggest are not quite even the size of a pencil eraser. And I've eaten snails before - kind of like swallowing a bunch of phlegm covered in garlic butter in my opinion. Not much different than how I perceive oysters - snot with cocktail sauce!

Great, so much for breakfast.

Some snails are parasite vectors, but does that mean all snails are parasite vectors? If I knew which ones (if any) didn't transmit parasites, I think they would be a good addition to the forage base. Not knowing, all of them are molluska non grata in my pond.

Sounds like a good question for Commander Cody.

Wow, great source Paul.

I also PM'd Bill Cody and alerted him to this thread.

I'm interested in his take on snails and parasites.

As far as I know most all, if not all aquatic snails are susceptable hosts to the common grub (white - yellow) and black spot fish parasites. There are also parasites unique to just primailiy snails. One reference estimated about 20% of all freshwater fish feed at one time or another on snails although only a few fish species eat snails on a regular basis - suckers, yellow perch, sheepshead, pumpkinseed, redear, whitefish. Thinner shelled snails are more readily consumed. Ducks and shorebirds eat snails. Several invertebrates consume snails - probably mostly young ones and the eggs.

Thanks Bill!

Is there a way to get rid of them? Here in WI I haven't seen redear. I have a ton of snails that showed up on there own. I have hybrid bluegill, perch, crappie, walleye, catfish, and large mouth bass, but no redear. Is there some other way to get rid of them?

Kenz, can you stock RES or is there a prohibition against them in WI? If there's no legal problem, I'd suggest that you consider adding some and that may help you get the situation into a better balance. RES are probably pretty compatible with the mix of fish you have right now.

I drained a pond that was totally infest with snails. A good 2-3 inches of dead shells on the bottom, everywhere. The fish were loaded with parasites, and I thinks when someone transferred the fish from that pond to my big pond I got infested as well. When I refill this pond after I rennovate it, RES go in, and not snails. Somehow I think the snails will get there anyway. And this was a manmade former swimming hole. I was scooping up wheelbarrow loads full.

Ducks will eat them, sometimes. Mainly pregnant females to augment thier vegetative diet with protein for egg and embryo developement. And shorebirds will eat them, transfer parasites and the snails when then pass them on to fish. Look at that S car go!

Do RES reproduce real fast? I will have to check if I can have them in WI. I'm betting not since the fish farms I deal with do not have them.

No, I don't believe they do typically. That's what makes them a good fish for applications like snail control, but a fairly bad fish for use as a forage base for other predators.

How do RES do that far north in Wisconsin?

Now you're asking questions I have absolutely NO idea about! I'll defer to someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to fish! That said, I know they survive just fine here in WV and, while we don't get as cold as WI typically does, we have total freeze up here often in the winter, so my guess would be that they'd probably do okay that far north.

The winter before last one morning we had -32 below, that's temp not wind chill. I wonder if I could find some adult fish if they make they make it at least I'll have a few months of them eating snails. I'm going to call some fish farms in the area to see if I can order some. Unfortunatly it might be to late to get them this year anymore.

RES are pretty hardy. I know they prefer slightly cooler water temps than bg. But boy are they crummy breeders. They are my favorite sunfish/bluegill, and yet I have so few in my ponds. But I have some big ones, getting to 2 lbs. Of course I would check with my local F and G or hatcheries and fish farms for the best advice as how they would fare in colder climates. I plant them in every single pond I plant. And they are my most requested fish. Why? They tend to get big, almost never overpopulate and stunt, and are great fighters. But after a few years you just don't catch many anymore. I have a pond over 10 years old, that planted equal numbers of them and bg, and today I catch 1 or 2 RES for every 98 or 99 bg. I'm heading there today. Taking out more bg, c and r lmb and res.

Good real world feedback, PF.

Kenz, as long as they're permitted, you might just want to give them a shot at your place. I honestly don't know how long it will take them to make an impact on your snail population or how many would be advisable for you to stock in your particular circumstances, but someone here can no doubt make a good suggestion. Since you have established predator fish, you may want to go with slightly larger RES so they don't become food as soon as they hit the water!

If you are too far north for RES, which is a good possibility, that or they are just plain illegal to stock. You can consider stocking PS(pumpkinseed sunfish). Both species are closely related... PS don't reach the massive sizes RES do, but they will grow to 8"-10" and like RES, have pharyngeal teeth and are capable of crushing snail shells and feeding on them. PS reproduce more readily than RES and can over populate, but they are a viable option for control of snails in northern ponds where RES are not an option. They just need to be managed like BG to make sure they don't overpopulate.

I have been trying to find out info on Fresh Water Drum. As I believe they eat snails as well, and I am sure they would make it up there.

It may be worth looking into. I am considering putting some in a pond just to see how they react.

Thanks

Checked with a couple of fish farms and was told we are too far north for RES. One guy said hybrid bluegills will eat snails also and said to stock more. I don't know if he was trying to get rid of some fish or if this is true. I already have quite a few hybrids. I don't know if I would want fresh water drum. I know a lake that is over run with them.

Any species of sunfish will eat snails... However, they tend to be the smallest and softest shelled varieties. Only RES and PS have the pharyngeal teeth to crush bigger harder shelled varieties. Hybrids of RES and PS such as a BGxRES or GSFxRES cross may get the RES's genetics of more developed pharyngeal teeth and be able to eat larger snails. However, most HBG sold are GSFxBG... So if neither parent species is adapted to feeding on snails, why would their hybrid be?

How long does it take for RES to start feeding on snails? I but mine in back in December and yesterday I noticed many snails in my pond. I am thinking there are more than they can eat or maybe they do not like them.

HBG apparently do not care for them either, as my pond is loaded with them and hit my bait as soon as it hits the water, yet the snails by the shore are still there.

Just kind of curious on this.

Thanks

Lots of factors involved... The density and size of RES, the species of snails in your pond and the availability of other preferred foods come to mind.

What do RES prefer to eat?

What is the easiest way to catch of of them?

How many RES would you stock to dispose of the snails?

Give more information about your situation...

Any bass present, their size, how big is your pond, do you know what species of snail(s) are present?

1.5 Acres
500 BG 6-18-2010,
2000 FHM 6-18-2010
No Bass yet, stocking those in August.
I have no idea what species the snails are, but given a resource I will find out.

Many studies I see say RES should be 25% of your toal sf/bg planting. For example 200 RES, 800 bg. I think you said you put in 500 bg, so 150 RES. I tend to close that gap to doubling 60% bg 40% RES. I have seen 50-50 before but within a few years those ratios are long gone. bg just outproduce RES in almost every case.

Are you trying to grow bigger bass or a balanced fish community? If you are leaning towards bigger bass, lean towards less RES in the sunfish ratio numbers with more BG. Say 15% or so... If you are leaning towards more of a balance or are also going to stock GSH, you can consider upping the ratio of RES to 30% of your sunfish numbers. Many times you may think your RES have disappeared, but they are there they are just hard to catch. I really like RES personally and if you figure them out, they can be caught year round. Particularly when they are not in competition with BG. I've even gone so far as to stock 50/50 ratio and still saw good bass growth. That may have been a fluke though, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.