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i noticed it is the active ingredient in SHORE KLEAR and you can also by it at tractor supply under a different name and cheaper but i don't want to kill my fish.... i have trout.


MY POND: 50'X100' (1/8 ACRE) dug in 2006. get's deep quick with a trench dug in the middle that reaches 17' deep. i have aeration. i stock bluegill, bass, trout, and perch and couple crappie.
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Yeah, it should be OK. I used it a week ago and got it at TSC. What are you trying to kill? Some plants need a surfactant like Cide Kick.

I was trying to murder some yellow water primrose and, without the Cide Kick, it came back pretty quickly.


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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Yeah, it should be OK. I used it a week ago and got it at TSC. What are you trying to kill? Some plants need a surfactant like Cide Kick.

I was trying to murder some yellow water primrose and, without the Cide Kick, it came back pretty quickly.


Ditto with what Dave said. I've had trout and had no problems with it. These types of herbicides break down quickly when in contact with organic matter.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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There are several brands labeled for aquatic use.
















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The way your question is worded it sounds like you may be asking if any glyphosate product is ok. Shore Klear and other aquatic approved products will be fine. However, I wouldn't spray Round Up or other terrestrial products in the pond.

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I hate to go backwards here, but what plants are you trying to kill?

Also, there may be knock offs with the same ingrediant but you need to check the % of active ingrediant on the label.

Which brings us to Glyphosate. Not exactly the best pond treatment. Just is not made for underwater plants. More or less for the shore. You need to add other things to it just to make it effective for marginals. Off to work, Coontail, cattails and bulrushes on the menu today. And no gly for me.

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I know I'll probably catch hell for this but I've used Round up on shoreline plants with no problems but I did add a surfactant. The resident heron kills more frogs and fish than anything I can apply! shocked

I haven't applied anything this year and I've got hundreds of dead tadpoles in the biggest pond. It's either the smallmouth of 5 to 7 inches smacking them but not eating them as they are too big to swallow, or the bluegills on the beds don't tolerate them in the area. The dead tadpoles are the most numerous in the area where the bluegills are bedding, but the smallies like to hang out in the area too for some reason. They bgs are all males so it can't be because of bluegill fry.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/02/10 06:00 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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i have a couple issues but for the purpose of this thread, the stuff i want to kill is growing at the edge of the pond maybe a little in the water but mostly on the edge of land right at the water line... it looks like really tall thick grass, like cut-weed. about knee to waist tall.
also...
i also have a massive growth of underwater plants that are getting out of control and i think they are either large leaf pond weed or clasping leaf pond weed. they have a little stem unlike the rest of the foliage that sticks up out of the water a little bit. stem kinda looks like the bud of a wheat plant, only green. didn't know if i should look into chemicals for this or what, since i have delicate trout. thanks. matt.


MY POND: 50'X100' (1/8 ACRE) dug in 2006. get's deep quick with a trench dug in the middle that reaches 17' deep. i have aeration. i stock bluegill, bass, trout, and perch and couple crappie.
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Matt, can you post a pic or two of your vegetation? That would probably help guide a more on-point answer in your direction.


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I second the pics. Try and get at least one close up of the plant.


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Hey, there are uses for a lot of stuff, I just try to use the right product for the right application.

If I have material I want gone fast and it is out of the water and above soil I use a roundup blend. Mainly Rounduppromax. It comes almost 50% gly. I combine that with Scythe, which is acid, Pelargonic and fatty. I'll go 2 oz RPM and 4 oz Scythe per gal. I get death action within minutes. I prefer the overkill method, as I hate respraying. The Scythe just makes the gly nasty effective, way faster acting and lethal in almost everything it gets on. It ain't Agent Orange, but it's a nasty good blend. Best thing is customer is visually impressed. It works well and fast for this hurry up I want results world.

Bear in mind I will not get near water, no marginals, no shorelines where overspray may hit water. Even the warning labels say that. Gly will breakdown on soil, in the air, but when it gets in water it might just hang around and accumulate. I tend to experiment in some aspects of my business, but with herbicides I follow all warnings.

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Short answer, I would not use gly on marginals or shoreline plants. It tends to bond with soil molecules, then is supposed to dissipate from there. In water, it does not, and can cause contamination. Trout, as well as most fishes have a lot of fatty tissues, which are like chemical sponges. They will soak up and store contminants, mercury, selenium, maybe even gly. Might not kill them, might kill whatever eats them.

We have a posted limit of how much Striped Bass you should eat per month out fo the Sacramento Delta. It's ounces. The toxic brew dumped into the water is the culprit, including mercury.

As far as your water plants, if you could take a live sample, still green, and lay it flat on a white sheet of paper 8 1/2 X 11, it helps a lot for the photo identification.

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Glyphosate dissapes very very quickly in soil. Just use a formulation that is registered for use around ponds like Rodeo. Formulations contain surfactants (a lot like soaps) that are meant to help the glyphosate to stick to and penetrate leaf surfaces. Some of these are toxic to aquatic organisms. Glyphosate is the most widely used and most extensively tested (for safety) herbicide on earth. Just use the appropriate formulation.

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I meant to write "dissipates"

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Supposedly Rodeo does not have the nasties Roundup does. However I am not very trusting of the big chemical companies. The same ones that said Agent Purple is harmless, Agent Orange is harmless, got busted falsifying lab results. Misrepresented Roundup and glyphosate both. DDT, dioxin, the list goes on and on. Even the supposed breakdown in soil varies wildly. From 3 day to 140 days to years. Same as in ponds, it can go away in days, or still be there in a year. They even had a lab pushing through all of the big companies pesticides. 262 companies used Craven labs, who blantantly falsified lab results to make the pesticides look safe. And yes Monsanto and Roundup were one of them. I don't use Rodeo. I don't put gly in water, near water or anywhere I might have groundwater. That's just me. They are going to ban 2,4-D. Even different countries, regions and here States have different banned stuff. There are over 100 banned pesticides and herbicides here in the US. Chemicals that were widely used, declared safe. Excuse my skepticism.

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Check to see if the products contain dicamba or/ 3,6-dichloro-2-methoxybenzoic acid. I mention this because cold water fish, specifically trout, are somewhat affected by this chemical. Nasty stuff those benzoic acids, causes burns and loss of appetite but that is of course at higher concentrations. Fortunately it usually just breaks down to water and CO2.

As with all herbicides, everyone throws a fuss because of bio-accumulation (as PF mentioned).


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Originally Posted By: RAH
Glyphosate dissapes very very quickly in soil.


Hmmm... must be an echo in here again. grin


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Except for the time it hung around 141 days in Iowa. Or over 2 years in a Swedish forest. Even 2,4-D tested side by side dissipated faster. And let's not forget Monsanto got sued and lost a false advertising suit stating Roundup was biodegradable. And left clean soil. Oops. Or the EU stated gly was dangerous for the environment and toxic for aquatic organisms. You leave the US corporate proganda machine things are much different. And when a major corporation like Monsanto loses a false advertising suit, how can people still sit there and say, it leaves the soil clean? Quickly?

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Links please. grin


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Does wikipedia count? :P


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"Roundup can be used where kids and pets'll play and breaks down into natural material." This ad depicts a person with his head in the ground and a pet dog standing in an area which has been treated with Roundup.

One of my favorite commercials back in the day. Stuff kills plants dead on contact yet person is laying in treated area and Fido is loving it also. Good stuff. And I thought cigarette commercials were bad. Don't see many of them any longer.

And people wonder why this late in my career I am getting away from herbicides as much as I can. I'd say 80% of my customers flat out state, no chemicals.

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Originally Posted By: The Pond Frog


Now be nice Pond froggy. grin It wasn't that I didn't believe you. Being a scientist at heart I never take anything at face value and I wanted to read what you have. wink

Got to hit the hay. I'm interested in reading the links though.

Later!



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 06/04/10 01:01 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Everybody has to make a buck. Look at the sources in the links above. Some sell fear. To each, their own...

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Great attitude, everybody has to make a buck? Those sites are not selling fear, they are merely reporting scientific findings and court records. Records of law. You go to the local chain store and see who is still there making that buck. Monsanto, Dow, BASF. All the corporate chemical makers. They overcome piddly fines, retests, i's all a drop of toxic waste into the profit bucket for them.

And who is paying that buck? The consumer, up front and then the environment long term. The waterways and oceans are in the worst shape they have been in the Earth's millions of years history. The farmlands are getting drenched in toxic soup and eventually the weeds just adapt and you need more. The corporations collectively thank you and your who cares everyone has to make a buck attitude. And our future generations will be shaking thier heads in disappointment, how could we let this happen?

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