Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Death of all my frogs

I found 19 dead floating female frogs on the surface of my pond 2 days after they laid their eggs. All of the eggs died too. I've had years of successful frog eggs to tadpole stage maturation in the past. This year I used Cutrine (in stead of just Copper Sulfate) for the first time, per label instructions and got a Cu level of 0.25 ppm (Suggested range 0.2 to 0.6 ppm). pH is running pretty alkaline at nearly 8.0.

A local pet store specializing in fish reports that Cu levels greater than 0.1 ppm can be lethal for frogs and their eggs.

I run and stone aerator, and can see a white thermometer on a string 10 feet down.

The Cutrine label says nothing about frogs. Anyone want to weigh in on this tragedy? I'll be sick if I killed my frogs!

Thanks.

Amphibians are very sensitive to environmental changes and toxins, I do believe it was the cutrine. Once levels subside more frogs will magically appear, and I doubt that all of them died.

Hello Swen and welcome to Pond Boss. I have used Cutrine in the past with no apparent detrimental effect to anything other than the Elodea that I was treating. But this is just anecdotal evidence, lets get some expert feedback.

Swen,

Did you use Cutrine Plus or Ultra? Ultra has a surfactant/penetrant called CideKick that I've seen frogs be sensitive to in high concentrations. Also, both products have a Ethanolamine in them that chealates the copper. This Ethanolamine might have negatively affected your frogs. However, I have never seen Cutrine Plus harm frogs, but I have seen an application with too much CideKick affect frogs.

Also, your method of application could have much to do with the negative effect to your frogs. If you were applying from a sprayer, using a high concentration, either from shore or boat, that may have done it. It's best to apply Cutrine or copper products to algae using a high volume/low pressure sprayer that slowly injects the product. This will allow better algae mat mixing, lower concentration of product out of the sprayer nozzle and less direct contact with frogs and their eggs.

Most of the time when we hear about do-it-yourself applications going wrong - it's not becuase someone used the wrong product at the wrong rate, rather they applied it incorrectly and with the wrong type of equipment.

Don't be discouraged by using the Cutrine product. It is a much safer and less toxic form of copper than copper sulfate. Copper sulfate participates out of solution in 24 hours and accumulates in the substrate 20 times more than Cutrine and other chealated copper products.

Cheers,

Trent

Thanks, Trent (and others for your advice and encouragement)

I used Cutrine Plus, and applied it with a hand pump sprayer from the shoreline (my pond is only 60' X 90') diluting the product 2:1 with water. In retrospect, my timing was bad, as I applied the product just a couple days before the frogs appeared and started laying eggs.

I spoke with a couple of folks at MSU, and the consensus is that I killed the frogs with the Copper. &^$#(#$

I'll take your advice, Trent, and use a high volume sprayer or perhaps wait until after the frogs are gone and tadpoles hatched next year.

I use Captain by SEPRO at ratio of about 8:1 water to Captain and have even accidentally direct spayed some frogs. No morts that I have seen or suspected. I think that the Captain works great if you stay on top of the growth and don't let it get away from you. I have been intending to buy some CideKick to mix in with it but now having second thoughts after Trent's comments. Any other opinions on the CideKick?