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#217184 05/15/10 10:44 AM
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So has anyone ever used this product or read any independent reviews of it?

NT- Max Water Treatment

Not even sure how I found this, but somehow ran across the site a few nights ago and just wanted to see what the collective wisdom here says about it.


Todd La Neve

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Todd3138 #217443 05/16/10 09:53 PM
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Todd, Collective wisdom here is a whole bucket full of oxymorons.

Here's the deal on whizzeroo bacteria deals. They all claim to perform miracles but will never tell you what's in it. Some have reported good results from bacteria and others have found no change. They never come with a money back guarantee and don't bother asking.

Bacteria is naturally occurring in your pond. Some have said that the stuff you can buy to clean up your septic system works as well (or not at all) as the highly advertised and touted ones.

I doubt that it would harm your pond.


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My pond has a lot of organic matter blown in or coming in through small feeder creeks.I am using bacteria this year and using it with 24/7 aeration. The organic matter seems to break down quickly. I know a friend that has used the New Tech Bio product and reported good results. It is more expensive than other products. The Pond Guy does offer a money back quarantee on their products.
Penn State paper that mentions bacteria. Certainly not a definative study
http://bedford.extension.psu.edu/pond/Lesson%202%20FAQs.pdf


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Thanks for the thoughts, Dave. Interestingly, this same company does sell septic system bacterial cleaning products, and I honestly wonder if there's any difference in what they are selling for a pond versus what they are selling for septic tanks other than the name on the container. I'm not yet ready to try one of these products, but it's certainly interesting to learn more about the good bacteria and the potential benefits. I think using it with aeration might be important, but just haven't spent enough time reading on the two concepts to have a good grasp of them beyond knowing that beneficial bacteria are good and aeration is good! laugh


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Dantheman #217482 05/17/10 07:14 AM
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Thanks for your experiences and those of your friend, Dan. That's encouraging. I suspect the ultimate answer is that it all depends! What products are you using and how are you monitoring the progress of the breakdown of organics? Have you done anything, i.e., measurements of some sort, to see if you've made progress in clearing an organic muck layer on the bottom?

Thanks again!


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Todd3138 #217492 05/17/10 09:27 AM
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There has been a good bit of research into just what and how many CFU(colony forming units) per gram or oz. there are in diff. brands. It has been pretty much determined that the stuff for septic use has essentially the same bacteria strains and enzymes. If you're good at searching, there is a good bit of discussion on different products and the best bang for the buck.
I see where the product you posted about says 12 trillions bacteria, but not per unit of what.
My research has shown that Rid X has the least number of CFUs per unit by a long shot. Some are highly concentrated comparatively.
When I had my pond drained and redug, I quit with the research, but will probably start throwing some stuff in since I started aerating full time again and I have gotten a pretty high concentration of fish. It can only help, but I wouldn't spend what most of these pond folks want for the stuff.
As Dave stated, the pond will naturally have bacteria grow in the presence of good O2 levels on the bottom. I feel that good aeration is essential and must be the 1st money spent.

Edit: Todd, in your case, 1st money....TH

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Bacteria related information from the Penn State referece provided by "Dantheman".

Do the pond bacteria being sold today really help breakdown the muck layer?
Use of bacteria to breakdown muck layers is overblown. It will help a little bit, but it is slow. The benefit would depend on how much of the muck is organic (leaves, etc.) versus sediment. Bacteria can act to reduce organic muck, but they cant breakdown mineral sediment particles. Overall, you should not expect more than a few inches of reduction in muck from bacteria products. It is not reasonable to look at these products as a way to avoid dredging.

Do the enzyme products sold on the market really work at removing nutrients and devouring bottom sludge?
There are two different issues with the enzymes. Some are marketed for sludge reduction while others are for nutrient control. Our early experience with bacteria/enzyme products is promising for nutrient control and reduced algae and plant growth, but there are some considerations when using these products. They can be very expensive and must be applied at least once per year because of our cold climate.

Source: Penn State Cooperative Extension Pond Management Website and PA Fish and Boat Commission Pond Website
Prepared by Jim Clark, Extension Educator in McKean County.


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Thanks, burger. It sure sounds like it can't hurt if done with deliberation, but I agree it may be most effective in conjunction with aeration. I'd love to go that direction and maybe THEN towards a TH! This is a really shallow pond, but we discovered over the weekend with our new canoe that the long paddles couldn't touch bottom in a few places when I reached down a bit with one. Probably have a small area where we're around 6 feet of depth. The rest of the pond is from 2-3 feet on average. Our oldest daughter was swimming along side us and said that when she floated vertically, her feet were in cold water, so I do, in fact, have a thermocline! Never imagined that in this pond. I think aerator, then bacteria, then TH, then more big BG!


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Bill Cody #217593 05/17/10 09:31 PM
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Some good points in here, Bill. This pond is old and a dredging is probably one of the best things we could do as I know not all the muck is organic. Just don't want to go there quite yet and there's not really a genuine need to do so, so just considering some other alternatives to at least get some of the crud off the bottom. Great stuff to think about and plan for the future.


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Todd3138 #217635 05/18/10 01:12 AM
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Todd:

Thermocline, or ground water seeping into the pond (i.e. a "spring")?


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esshup #217675 05/18/10 12:28 PM
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My first guess would be a thermocline, but I guess a spring would also be possible. This pond does lose some depth during the heat of summer when things get dry, but I suppose it could be a spring that just doesn't produce enough to keep up with evaporation. But, if it's not big enough to keep up with evaporation, I don't know that it would be enough to create that much of a cold zone either. Just an amateur guess on that point though.


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Todd3138 #217677 05/18/10 01:39 PM
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Todd, the water flow might fluctuate with the amount of available water - more flow during wetter times of the year, less flow during dry times. But, a thermocline is a possibility as well!


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esshup #217827 05/19/10 12:57 PM
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Makes sense, Scott. It's been pretty dry recently, but now for the past week or so we've had an awful lot of rain, including the night before we were out there and in the water.

I had the fun yesterday of trying to make our new 14 foot canoe perform like one of my agile little whitewater kayaks by sliding into the pond down a roughly 2 foot dropoff. Suffice it to say my plan didn't work and I once again proved that the laws of physics are immutable! laugh My point is, I didn't detect any sort of cold layer in the water from my submerged vantage point! I think my daughter just doesn't know what the heck she is talking about! grin


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Todd3138 #281757 02/23/12 10:49 AM
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I contacted NT-MAX to inquire about its miracle pond clearing product. My theory is - if it's so good, they would be selling it through retailers by the truck load. Yet, there is no third party distributor and no review that's independent from its own newtechbio website.

So, my conclusion is to keep the money in my wallet. I am guessing they are making money from people who do not return the product even when it's not effective.

Their give away was this: "NT-MAX enzymes multiply at an astonishing rate, doubling in numbers every 20 minutes to aggressively eat and digest the surplus nutrients overtaxing your pond or lake."

If that were true, you do not need to buy anything beyond a one-pound quantity because the thing would multiply by itself. Within one day your 1 billion bacteria would turn into 34359738368 billions.

That's why I think they are selling you a pie in the sky.

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Originally Posted By: skeptic
I contacted NT-MAX to inquire about its miracle pond clearing product. My theory is - if it's so good, they would be selling it through retailers by the truck load. Yet, there is no third party distributor and no review that's independent from its own newtechbio website.

So, my conclusion is to keep the money in my wallet. I am guessing they are making money from people who do not return the product even when it's not effective.

Their give away was this: "NT-MAX enzymes multiply at an astonishing rate, doubling in numbers every 20 minutes to aggressively eat and digest the surplus nutrients overtaxing your pond or lake."

If that were true, you do not need to buy anything beyond a one-pound quantity because the thing would multiply by itself. Within one day your 1 billion bacteria would turn into 34359738368 billions.

That's why I think they are selling you a pie in the sky.


Good decision, I bought a pail of the stuff several years ago and wasn't impressed. I've used many different bacteria products, NT Bio rates last on the list, it didn't do a thing for my pond except reduce the vis...didn't like the whole "vibe" and claims from this company at all.

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I have and still use the newtechbio product in conjunction with cutrine liquid and granular to keep my algae down and to clean up my clarity issue a bit. I use cide kick with my liquid. I chose them due to the fact that they were very thorough with me on the phone and had no complaints anywhere that I could find. I fished out the catfish 2 years ago and my pond appears to be moving in the right direction steadily. My algae is kept at bay and I do not need dye to assist.

My expectations of what I put in my pond are real and I do not believe that any product or device will make my pond look like the garden of Eden overnight, but, a slow steady move to a better looking pond is what I expected and as I said. I am getting there.

I expect this year to be a little tricky since the weather has been 'odd' and many are telling me that we are in for a heat wave second to none. I dont know if this is temporary but I do hope that this upcoming winter is not warmer that what we have had in NA since that will surely start to scare me.

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Todd, what is TH and what is BG?

Thanks. I've seen them elsewhere as well in this thread but have no idea what they mean.

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DCQ, you will need this page. It is listed under the Common Pond Q&A heading.

commonly used acronyms

TH is not in there but is likely refering to Texas Hunter fish feeders. It is a very popular brand of automatic fish feeder.

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I have made purchases from Newtechbio but not bacteria. I have been using bacteria and Eco Boost in 2 of our 3 BOWs for the last 3 months as an experiment. One BOW suffers from agricultural runoff and filamentous algae problems while the other has zero ag runoff but typically has coontail and sago pondweed problems. I dosed both with copper sulfate in the spring and they looked really good through the end of May this year. Then things went downhill fast.

For the last 3 months i have applied the Eco Boost and bacteria to both of those ponds in the amount recommended by the lake management company i hired to do the electrofishing surveys in May. The bottom line is, so far, i do not see any difference in the water quality in either pond.....none. I now have lots of FA in one pond and lots of sago and coontail in the other.

The bacteria and Eco Boost are both expensive. I realize that 3 months may not be enough time to see results. I am going do this treatment once each month (as recommended) through October. Both of these BOWs are small....approximately 1.5-1.6 acres each. Not going to buck up and do the same to our 6.5 acre pond until i get a better feel as to whether or not the bacteria is working. I realize that these treatments are not intended to kill FA, coontail or sago pondweed but i was looking for less of these three. So far i am not convinced.


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I didn't think bacteria was for weed control. I thought is was for the bacteria help break down the sludge and organic layer at the bottom of the pond?


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Well here my 2 cents on this. I been using a product called C-flo for some time now. I would say about 4 years. I believe this helped get my 65 year old pond a kick in the butt which it needed. I have seen some reduction in muck I would say about 2 inch a year. Some spots still seem fairly bad others seem like much better. I now have spots where it's only like 4 inches till rock. And them I have spots where it could be up to 10 to 12 inches... I only put 2 one pound bags in a year. 1 in May and 1 in July my fish look great my pond seems to thrive with all type of wildlife and I can say I have lost 5 to 8 inches I would guess of muck in this 4 year period. Make no bones about it! It is NOT no quick fix..... that for sure! But if you have time and your pond is old and it needs a good jump start I believe this product does work to some degree.

RC


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RC, do you see more muck reduction in areas that are stirred up more or have more O2, or do you think all the areas are equal in levels of O2 and water movement?


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