Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait My Pondweed/Grass Shrimp Relationship

Two days ago I posted questions on how to eradicate the explosion of Horned Pondweed/Widgeon Grass in my main pond. Yesterday I sampled the pond to see what might be hiding out in the pondweed if it's something I was going to have to live with. I was happily surprised at the sampling results.

Not only was the pondweed very easy to run a net through, but it yielded abundant GSH/FHM, Tadpoles, and PK Shrimp on every run. I averaged a dozen shrimp/net - amazed at the qty and variety of forage that utilize pondweed as habitat and apparently as a food source.

This is a classic scenario which underscores the importance of a pond manager collecting all the facts prior to committing to a management strategy. These new details will factor into my decision on whether or not to eradicate the pondweed, spot treat, or leave it alone.

Those shrimp are just about the coolest things ever.

You gotcha some dandy brim bait there.
I gotta have some PW and PK.

If anyone can dig a 10x10 4' deep pit I will mail you some of this pondweed. You can have a shrimp operation up and running in no time. This pondweed is amazing stuff. I imagine a seine would pull through it just as easily as my net. Crazy - certainly nothing like trying to seine through FA.

I noticed your shrimp are carrying eggs, so you're about to have a population explosion.

I have a ~10x10x3' fathead/shrimp pond, and my dip net gets ~5-15 shrimp per scoop. I guess that proves the FHM don't eat very many if any of them. The shrimp are skinny, so I need to add grass clippings or sinking feed. The shrimp in my big pond are maximum size and plentiful.

I wish i could get shrimp to put in my pond. I ask around and most of the time get a puzzled look for a responce. No one in my area seems to know anything about these, stock them, or have access to a regular supplier.

RCN

I just placed a bulk order for Pond Boss guys last week! If we get enough guys together we can do another order. I have two other forum members who contacted me last week after the shrimp had shipped. If I can help you out let me know. Dale Fattig is our contact and he's in the resource guide if you want to hit him up yourself. The pricing is contingent on quantity - thats why we try to get everyone together for bulk orders.

I've seen that before but never said anything since everyone that was in on it was out west and i'm in Florida. Didnt speak up since i was thought it was not something i could get in on due to my location being so far away from everyone else.

The fine leafed vegetation is ideal habitrat for grass shrimp. The PK shrimp don't do very well in artificial structure or no vegetation. Mentor Lusk and I keep stressing the importance of good habitat. Good habitat is not just pallets, pvc, brush and rocks.

Hey RC -

PB family is PB family, regardless of location! Next time give us a shout - it's $30 flat shipping nationwide. We've shipped as far East at NC and South as TN and AL and they made it with around 1-2% morts IIRC. If we can get enough guys together [we currently have four] we can probably pull off another order while they are gravid and ready to drop eggs.

I'd like to be #5 if at all possible.

RC, PK shrimp may not do as well for you as the native freshwater Florida grass shrimp would. Palaemonetes paludosus commonly known as the Eastern grass shrimp, Riverine grass shrimp or Florida ghost shrimp is the species of grass shrimp you most commonly see for sale as feeder food in the tropical fish trade. They are very common is most freshwater areas in Florida. Like PK shrimp, they can survive and thrive in freshwater through all life stages. They are less cold water tolerant than PK shrimp though, which is why they are not an option for us northerners. However, where you are they are native and would do quite well. I suspect you shouldn't have a hard time collecting them from the wild. Most ditches and ponds I have sampled in several different parts of Florida were loaded with them.

I am not trying to dissuade you from purchasing the PK shrimp. TJ and I were the first to find a supplier and I stocked them and believe they should be like fatheads, stocked in just about every pond. But, I think the native Florida grass shrimp would be a better option for you... Just my .02.

RC - Travis is right - go with species native to your area. Not trying to take any business from Dale, but if you could pull your sampling net through aquatic vegetation in local ditches or ponds and collect some that would make the most sense IMO. Free and native.

Travis - what do you think about those pics? Have you sampled your ponds yet?

I gotta get my butt in gear and sample them. I have been seeing a lot of fish in the shallows. I just got back from a week in PA turkey hunting and fishing. Tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day so I will run the net and post the results...

Travis, get 'r done quick. That cold front that's coming your way is a doozy!

My daughter and i will make another run at finding some locally, again. We made our own special net for this and its great fun but so far i have not seen a single grass shrimp. I like the free part and we have a great time doing it anyway. If i have not gotten any by the time everyone starts talking about another batch of pk shrimp i'll speak up. Thanks guys.

I usually found them in the thickest nasty vegetated ditches down in FL. Many of the neighborhood dug out ponds had them too. I just caught them to use for bait for catching BG and RES but there is not reason they couldn't be kept and transported to your pond for stocking.

I'll let you know if i get some.

So this would confirm a spawn from last years stocking from fattig?

I finally decided to check my two ponds to see if the pk grass shrimp I stocked in them last spring survive... NADA Not a single shrimp in the 50 swipes of my dip net. I caught piles of dragon fly nymphs, bull frog and leopard frog tadpoles, all kinds of other water beatles and a mix of bluntnose minnow and banded killifish YOY, but not a single shrimp...

Not sure, perhaps I just don't have many and they are just not coming up in the net. Or, what I think, the water chemistry around here just is not conducive to pk grass shrimp. I do have a zillion predacious diving beetles in both ponds. Hopefully the adult male BG I stocked will start to control them and next year I will give one more try to getting pk grass shrimp to take hold.

For me, yes, but I also stocked well over 2,000 shrimp. Sounds to me as though other results are varying...we need some more feedback from other Shrimp guys.

This is troubling Travis. I only sampled ONE earlier in the year, but since my pondweed explosion it far exceeded my expectations. If my shrimp keep it up I will mail you some - I just need a lesson in shipping shrimp 101, some bags, boxes and rubber bands. I have the 02 on hand though.

I am thinking the shrimp need alkaline water. I am going to sample more later in the week to see if it was just a fluke. I am also thinking my predacious diving beetles took their toll on them. I am hoping the male BG will really clean them up and help out. We'll see...

Travis - see my new post. Your beetle info gave rise to a question I have....

Ok I have not heard of these shrimp. Will these live in Oklahoma waters? Would it be a waste of time and money to add these to an established pond?

It seems like it may be pretty easie to get a pond started for these or minnows is this true?

In all likelihood they should survive in OK waters. Some forum members have had luck getting them to take hold in already established ponds, so they would not be a waste trying.


I am not sure what you are asking in this question... Are you asking is it easy to build a solely forage pond for raising forage fish and grass shrimp?

yes that was what I was asking. Just curious the minimum size and depth to sustain forage.

thanks

So where exactly does a person go to get this grass, besides local fishing holes with unknown diseases? Will it spread an take over?

I would imagine collecting from a "wild" source wouldn't be too risky as long as you quarantine the plants correctly.

I would probably rinse them thoroughly with good old chlorinated water from the garden hose, then bathe them for 30-45 seconds in a solution of 100 ppm methyl blue. Then rinse again. Then put in a tank of dechlorinated tapwater and a tiny bit of fertilizer for about a week and repeat the methyl blue bath again. I'd probably do this about 4 times. I would think they'd be pretty darn safe at that point, but make sure to closely examine for snails, mollusks, eggs, etc.

Wow. Shrimp in colder climates. I didnt think that would work. Also, explain this grass you are all talking about. Wouldnt these shrimp live just fine around all the other weeds etc. growing around my pond. Just curious, this is a new one for me.

Grass shrimp have preferences in aquatic vegetation, but just about any species will work. They will also utilize sunken brush and even rocky areas to take cover and forage. They are very common in the backwaters formed by wing dams along the rocky rip rap. I catch them extensively in rocky jetty areas as well. The grass shrimp species TJ is speaking off is native all the way to southern Canada, so cold weather is not an issue with them...

I would like to purchase some of these in the future if at all possible. I will gladly pay shipping or whatever it takes. Just someone let me know. Thanks ya'll.

Hey airborne - I'm thinking of placing another forum order soon as my two forage ponds now have tons of pondweed and I want to stock them both. Of course you're welcome to go directly to Dale Fattig directly but I try to group orders to lower the price - it's contingent on the qty of orders. So, the more guys we get on board, the cheaper the price.

I'll make a post and see if anyone wants aboard. You can do a search for PK Shrimp and learn all you need to know about pricing, shipping, etc. Of course, I can fill you in there too if you want to PM me.

i need a supplier for grass shrimp. please let me know of any one

Welcome bluefin! Might have a better response if you introduce yourself here.

In the resources section of the Pond Boss Forum, there are many places listed for a myrad of things all pond related. Here's one that's right up your alley.

http://www.pondboss.com/resource_guide.asp?id=38&c=5

Have you tried pouring cocktail sauce in the water to induce the bass to feed on the shrimp?

This thread made me curious about the Fattig operation, but when I googled it I found Mr. Fattig's obituary and that the company website was down and replaced by a message from a hacker.

Does anyone -- especially the Nebraskans -- know what happened? Did the business survive the passing of its founder? Is there an alternative source of PK shrimp?

I just called Susan, Dale's daughter, and they confirmed they are still in business but also verified their website had been hacked. I'm going to work with them to get it back up and also update with some new copy. I will forward their contact information for everyone here in case you need to reach them.

If anyone wants to order, the window is narrowing. If we group orders we can receive qty discounts as pricing is contingent on order qty. I would be willing to help facilitate this as I've done in the past, just let me know what you need and I can add up all the orders. Pricing is $.25/ea if we get over 2,000 and shipping is $30 flat overnight.

TJ

Ah, that's great to hear, TJ. So glad this important part of our community is still in business.

I saw in the obit that Mr. Fattig was a WWII veteran and had a great life building a business, serving his community and raising a big family. For those who are curious, you can see his obituary here.

TJ, I'd make a new separate post to announce an upcoming order so others can get in on it... Grass shrimp should seriously be stocked like FHM, At the beginning of just about every pond's life. Not too late after a fishery is established either. They are a great addition to just about any pond, from the classic LMB/BG pond to just about any specialty pond IMO.

As Mentioned above by CJ: "Grass shrimp have preferences in aquatic vegetation, but just about any species will work. They will also utilize sunken brush and even rocky areas to take cover and forage. They are very common in the backwaters formed by wing dams along the rocky rip rap. I catch them extensively in rocky jetty areas as well. The grass shrimp species TJ is speaking off is native all the way to southern Canada, so cold weather is not an issue with them." Moral here is for good survival the grass shrimp need proper habitat. To get better survival from wildlife stockings one doesn't release them in plowed or barren fields and expect survival. The better and more extensive the habitat the better the survival. If you are not seeing long term survival something is probably seriously wrong with the habitat.

Question, I've got a half acre pond that has NO vegetation whatsoever in it. It also has no large fish as they all died in this years drought in Texas. Its filled to the brim now and has covered over lots of rye grass and weeds that started growing in the dirt pit that was once a pond. Would this be enough to get them going and keep them going? The pond does have a large algae bloom in the spring but for about 4 months and then it dies down.

Hard to say...I've had great luck with them in my ponds but there's ample submergent vegetation. I know some forum members who had shrimp stocked apparently did NOT have them take. I don't know how well they would do being stocked in a pond full of BG - if you stocked higher qtys you'd improve your chances for sure.

Well count me in on some shrimp and pond weed. I want to start a tank and see how it does.

So TJ, you doing a grass shrimp order this spring? Anyone else shown interest in them?

I have connected with Susan Fattig taking over for Dale. They had some malicious activity on their website and it took them down for a while - I offered to help them get back on their feet with some free help but they never ended up getting back to me. Been six months by now. I will reach out and see how things are going for them, but last time we spoke they said they were ready to roll and would honor Dale's pricing with the Pond Boss family. Basically we need to get orders exceeding 2000 and it's $.25/ea plus $30 flat overnight shipping. Not sure if shipping prices have increased since the last order or not.

If anyone wants to hop on I'm happy to help coordinate for another major order this year. If there is anyone near me in Lincoln I'm also happy to net a few dozen for you to get things started in your ponds. I'm happy to help in any manner possible - Fattigs are good people and I like helping both them and my forum family! If anyone is interested just PM me your questions or contact info and we can chat.

You the man TJ! If you are just starting your pond off, you can't go wrong with stocking a couple hundred of these. They are an excellent forage for just about anything in the pond. They turned waste into fish food... You can't go wrong! Well worth the initial investment.

And if you already have an established pond with a decent amount of aquatic vegetation, there is a good likelihood they will take hold. They prefer harder water, so those with softer water may not want to take a chance on them. But if you have more typical water, they should do fine just about anywhere in the country...

If you live close to me come help me split some wood, seine for SMB or RES/BG, catch some CSBG and help me polish off some diet pepsis and we'll net some for free, of course, for your troubles. I sure love these little critters - and watching them in action is really too cool. They are born survivors - you can throw a handful into open water, and although the BG swarm only a few end up being eaten. They are translucent and jet through the water super fast and disappear. I could watch that stuff all day....and sometimes find myself doing just so!

What about a pond with 2-4" in. BG and 3-5" CC?

It all comes down to qty and habitat. If you have submergent vegetation and stock enough I think you'd be fine. Depends on how serious you are about getting them established. 100 GS in a pond full of voracious BG and no habitat is recipe for failure. Need to know more about your bow to make recommendation.

One of the biggest factors in survival success is water chemistry... If you water is soft with few dissolved solids they most likely will not take hold not matter what. If it is usually turbid(muddy) again, they aren't going to do well.

Rocky areas with 1/4" to 1/2" crevices and vegetation are both great structure and escape cover for grass shrimp.

If you have a pond with the right chemistry, which most pond owners on here will along with the above mentioned habitat, you should strongly consider stocking some.

After stocking grass shrimp a couple years ago from Fattig into a 0.4 acre pond, I hadn't seen signs of them. Admittedly I hadn't been really looking as I have left the pond where I had stocked them alone just allowing the forage fish breed for a couple years before stocking other fish.

This year was my planned year to begin adding actual fish I could fish for into it so I have been sampling it to see where my forage fish populations were at. I had honestly thought my grass shrimp didn't take hold. Today I proved myself wrong. Just sitting on the edge of the pond watching into the shallows with polarized lenses for a couple minutes I was able to spot nearly 2 dozen grass shrimp scooting around. This pond doesn't have ideal habitat as it has no aquatic vegetation.

However, last year it was getting over run with some willows so I cut them down and then sunk them into the shallow areas in piles for added cover. The trunks and branches are now covered in algae and grass shrimp! The shrimp appear to be using the intertwined limbs as cover, feeding on the organisms growing in the algae. I'm glad to see my grass shrimp have taken hold. They'll be a huge part of my food chain as my game fish begin get added.

Do you have some pics of your grass shrimp you could post? What do you have in the pond now and what do you plan to add to it?

I didn't catch any, I just observed them in the water so no pictures. Perhaps tomorrow I will do some more surveying of the pond and may come across some shrimp and will get a few photos.

Currently I have banded killifish, lake chubsuckers, satinfin shiners, spotfin shiners, spottail shiners, bluntnose minnows, eastern mudminnows, tessellated darters and bluespotted sunfish in the pond and I recently stocked golden shiners and fathead minnows.

I'll be stocking RES, RBS, SMB and possibly WE and already have a handful of all male BG.

CJ with lack of better habitat and after you stock sportfish and they reproduce your chances of long term survival of the GShrimp are low. One of the reasons you are seeing numerous ones is the lack of predators. Panfish that are targeting GS in a few brushy areas have low chances of breeders surviving until spawning. Grass shrimp have an annual cycle where adults die each year and are replaced by offspring. It will be interesting to see how they survive in your small pond after stocking of panfish predators.

Yeah, TJ and I were talking about that exact thing via PM. With there being no vegetation, it will most likely be an issue. Until I get the duckweed completely under control adding vegetation is an issue as I am using fluridone to handle the duckweed and any vegetation added would simply be killed by the fluridone. Hopefully I can get the duckweed controlled and then can get suitable vegetation introduced before my sportfish ravage my GS population.

If that doesn't happen the only other factor that may help me is one side of the pond was left with willow trees. They have extremely thick root masses and go out into 2-3 feet of water. Most of that side of the pond is very shallow. Over 6 feet out and it only gets about 2 feet deep. There are extensive areas of 6" or less of water. I observed a fair number of grass shrimp utilizing this maze of roots in extremely shallow water. It will be interesting in the end to see if aquatic vegetation is truly needed for grass shrimp to be successful under predation.

So both the GS and the lake chub suckers once seemed to be gone but turned out to be thriving. Very cool.

You mention RBS; where are you sourcing them? Found a hatchery, or from the bucket?

Yes, granted I really haven't been watching the pond that closely. This year I have been heavily sampling and observing it. I am happy to see both the LCS and GS have taken hold.

The only hatchery sources I've been able to locate are down in GA and the Carolinas. I am making a trip down south to bring my new baby to see family next month. I'll be picking up some while down there. Still working on which hatchery as there are a few options. Been looking at Owen and Williams but am not sold just yet. Here are what the golden color morph RBS look like.




I'll most likely stock 50/50 golden morph and regular coloration.

Those are some neat fish, would love to have some of them in my pond.

The habitat and cover of the willow roots along one shoreline will definately benefit the grass shrimp. The use of fluridone herbicide may eventually kill the willows.?

I've been told different things as to whether the willows will die or not... I guess I am gonna find out.

Experience is a very good teacher. If the willows die it may depend on several things. Usually it always depends.

They do a pretty good job of dying when I spray the trunks with 1:3 Remedy/diesel.

diesel???? in your pond?????

Yes; I don't worry about the small amount of diesel and chemicals. It has always dispersed with no apparent problem. Think about it. One inch of water over one acre is 27,000 gallons. When I do the math I find that the small amount of "pollutants" is pretty insignificant. A quart or less of the mix goes a long way.

My disclaimer is that it has never hurt my pond nor any others that I've treated.

Willow infestation, OTOH, can be much more of a problem.

When you say willows you talking cat tails?

No, willow trees.

Glad to see Fattig's has its website back up. RockvilleMDAngler just reported receiving an order with zero morts on his construction/stocking thread.

Yes, I saw it was back up as well... People really should strongly look at stocking grass shrimp into their ponds. Especially if sunfish are their goal. Even ponds aimed at quality bass will benefit from them. No downside to stocking them.

I am suprised they do not market the golden morph red breast more "even on their own site" those are really cool. I would like some also.