Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Ponds Out Of Control

Hello everyone

I am new and I am just going to lay out to the experts my most recent encounter with ponds. I have just started as an Aquatics position but I did not investigate before I took the position. I have been able to get the chems under control in our pools and spas but I am having a heck of a problem with the ponds. The biggest concerns are that this company gives me around $400/month to maintain 5 ponds that are about 100' X 50' and 15" deep. They have motors to circulate the water but no filters. When it rains, the drains are pointed into the ponds so a lot of dirt are in them. I noticed that there is a film on the bottom about 1"-3" thick and it should not be disturbed because a black cloud will form. I thought I had it figured out when I treated one of the ponds with a large amount of cal-hypo as suggested by a Leslie rep. It was cloudy brown for a few days but then it cleared up pretty good but not completely given that it was dark green to begin with. On the 7th day I added a pack of Otter Blue Shield and it gave it the sky blue color that the manager was looking for. The problem is that it only lasted about a week. Now its dark green again. Another issue is that this is an apartment complex that houses about 800-900 adults and CHILDREN which love to play and throw trash in the ponds, pool, and spas. There are also pine trees around these ponds and it seem that they let off something new every other week in to them. I will have been fighting with these ponds for 3 month next week and thought I would have figured out by now. I was wrong. Can anyone correct me?

Thanks

Welcome GP, Until the others chime in i'd like to ask if you have done any water testing to see what you have? Any testing results you have and can share will help others offer a solution.

I'm assuming that there will be no fish or plants in these pools of water, correct? And that they are lined with a rubberized liner or made from concrete?

Make a video, Ponds Gone Wild!

$400 a month after buying chemicals, dyes and other requirements you will be working for free. Nor Cal or So Cal?

PF, I was hoping you'd see this post.

Talk about underbidding, or underfunded. Plus having kids around really ties your hands. No filters, not exactly a dream job by any means. First you got to demuck them, maybe clorinate them heavy if no fish or stuff. Tough spot, I'd have come in a lot higher than that or maybe passed because of liability with kids.

The other thing to think about is that he could be employeed by the company that owns the ponds and his budget for pond supplies is $400.00/month not including his salary.

You could not pay me enough to deal with this description. Why in the world would you even have or build something like that? Then divert runoff into it, have no filtration and kids throwing whatever they feel like into it.

Even with a salary on top of the $400 budget you are talking money pit ponds and labor intensive with no end in sight because all of the problems are inherent with the design and set up. Way too large, way too shallow, you should not divert sediment runoff into any residential pond. I am suprised there is not a huge mosquito and algae problem also. If someone contacted me on this I would tell them to fill them in and make a rock garden, plant area and kid's playground out of them.

what happened to you green ponds, come on back.

i like the idea of getting a water test first.

Yes, I do testing every time I work. Usually only pH. These ponds are so unpredictable at times. A morning test will read 7.5 and 4-5 hrs later it will be 8.5. I am constantly adding muratic acid....

I heard once upon a time there fish in there ponds but I can't see how. There are plants, bush type, and pine trees and other types of trees around these ponds that are constantly dropping leaves, cones, twigs, pollen, etc. in these ponds. Your right, they are made of concrete.

Yes the $400 are for the chems only and I am in Central California.

I don't know why all this has happen to this apt complex's ponds. They have been mishandled for so long and now I get to try and revive them. The company does not have the equipment to be able to empty these ponds one at a time and thoroughly clean them. They expressed their concern of cost to refill them? I can't give them what they want (crystal blue) without a major overhaul. Yeah you don't have to be surprised, there is a ton of algae. I tried to purchase a 100 lb tub of algae killer for $350 due to extra funds that rolled over from the previous month but they did not approve the PO for it and said that cal-hypo will do the same. But the cal-hypo eliminates the dye too.

They have been mishandled because they are most assuredly poorly designed. However I applaud your efforts and perseverence. Tough spot my friend, I do this kind of thing every day and yet I can't think of any solution other than a complete overhaul and redesign. Shallow large ponds without filtration are algae nightmares. And you solve one problem but create another. Plus the obvious extremely limited budget, and cost too much too refill? I'd counter, it's going to cost way more not too drain and sanitize. You almost have to make them no life poison ponds just to get them not to crash. Your a better man than me Gunga Din.

Just thinking out loud here.

Could you rent a trash pump at a local rental place, suck out the water & junk, then pressure wash the pond & refill? Maybe do one a month?

I don't know what your water rates are, but each 100' x 50' x 15" deep pond is .14 acre foot of water, or 46,750 gallons.

It sounds like you are trying to do the work with your hands tied for you by the purse string holders.

They can either spend the $$ up front to do it right, or spend a lot of $$ and piddle away at it. It probably would be cheaper for them in the long run to do it right the first time. If you can't get them on board to roll their unused budget over from month to month, then I see an ulcer in your future! Been there, done that and still have the bumps on my forehead from banging it into the brick wall......

Can you explain to me how these ponds are poorly designed. I know I threw out there 100' X 50' X 15" but these ponds are not perfectly square. Is it because of the drains? Your right, it is one problem after another...

My hope is that they would be willing to listen to change and for the better. Its all about the bottom line with this company. This is what makes it such even more. I tried to get blue prints on these ponds from the manager so that I would have a accurate numbers but they don't have them. They have another property and the manager over there told my manager that ours are roughly 350,000-400,000 gallons of water. I don't believe it and since there are so many curve to these ponds I am just going to have to break each one into pieces to get the best calculation. Depth is another thing. Some areas are so polluted on the bottom that it is uncertain what is the actual depth. I get reading from 12" - 16" throughout. I am living a nightmare.

GP, I would presume the comment of a poorly designed pond was the lack of forthought as to runoff and no catch filters, but i could be wrong. Am i righ that you say these average 12-15 foot in depth or is it 12-15 inches? I am going to presume you are talking inches. That being so, i wonder what the average temps are? Could there be any algae eating fish (or other animals) capable of surviving the heat from such shallow water in california's heat along with the toxic runoff? Another thought is if you were able to drain and spray them clean, where would the stuff go? Is there a low area safe for it to go to? Would you have to have it shipped off to some decon site and scrubbed clean before you could legally dump it? This is afterall california along with its over the top regulations.

What is the purpose of these ponds?

Green Ponds, can you find your ponds on google planimeter ? If so, follow the directions to get an area. To go around curves, you can make many small straight lines.

Design flaws are all interlocked, and also make each other worse.

Flaw #1. No filtration. On a body of water that size filtration is almost a requirement. And in your setting, strainers and filters. Even a skimmer.

Flaw #2. Drainage aimed at pond. Without filtration you can't have junk and sediment flowing in. Now you have a sediment catchment, with no filtration, and no way to remove the sediment and other nasties that come along with runoff, mainly fertilizer leftovers.

Flaw #3. Too shallow. Without filtration, and with drainage aimed at pond there is no room for lack of depth. The sediment displaces a large percentage of open water. Chemicals coming in feed algae, again, unable to be filtered. And the lack of depth has a propensity to overheat and kill anything good, like fish, and just make it a sediment laden algae pond.
Also shallow ponds are known as evaporation ponds, because the water gets so hot, it enhances evaporation.

Then you have so many constraints, especially financially, you cannot overcome all of the flaws. They are similar to French reflection ponds. Concrete lined and shallow, formal. But they have turned into water treatment sludge ponds.

What I would do, one pond at a time, is introduce Water Hyacinth. You don't have any outflow to any public waters. They will address three issues, filtration, algae and sludge. They will even reduce evaporation and water temp. Pretty green foilage and lavender flowers. But under them the water is getting crystal clear, the black bottom is getting used up, and algae is getting blocked and drawn into the roots. Then throw in some Gambusia. Maybe 100. Try this with one pond. It would almost be free. Before Winter hits pull out all of the plants and toss them into a compost pile. Labor intensive but with the money saved you could afford the labor. You should have no algae, little or no muck and very clear water. Tint it hard, a little tint goes a long way in a shallow pond. That is what I would do.

rcn11thacr

Now I understand and agree with you. I heard yesterday from the landscaper that the reason for the runoff were because of cost to have them directed toward the roadway. I spoke with the maintenance manager on bringing the motor from out of their well's and adding filter but he said because of the area that it would not be wise. People, children and adults, just do not know how to respect the property. As far as depth, your correct, it is in inches. I also was told that they pulled out a ton of gunk some time ago when the odor became unbearable in one of the ponds and they decided to drain it. I didn't ask how they disposed of it, I'll find out tomorrow. Oh yeah the maintenance sup. said before they drained it that they first dumped 150,000 lbs of calcium hypochlorite in it. I do not believe this though...

I suppose to beatify the scenery.

esshup

Thanks I will check this out.

It sounds like they were trying to manage the ponds like a swimming pool without the pool filter or skimmer.......

4 semi-truck loads of the stuff? Where the heck in their $400/month budget did they find the $$ to do that?? I'd like to hear from the Maintenance Supervisor how much they spent on that!