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OK. I don't know of any spray, but I want to get rid of my bullhead catfish before they spawn again. I put some small bluegill, redear, and channel cats in last fall. Other than that, the pond only has fatheads and some bullheads that got in somehow.

I thought about setting a trotline. I don't want to catch my bluegill, redears, channels; but they may not be big enough yet to bite a hook anyway.

Someone said somewhere that you can chum them with fermented corn so I have some setting in a bucket.

Any tips / pointers?


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Stocking large bass + weed removal is one option. But nets are more selective. How big is your pond? I would recomend some trap nets. Aquatic eco has small collapsable trap nets or larger and more expensive fyke nets are very efficient for bullheads.

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Thanks Ty! It is about 17 acres.

I was also perusing the habitat section where they talked about hollow logs, trash cans, buckets and such for catfish to use for spawning. I wonder if I could rig some of these up so they are a one way proposition. They go in and can't get out.

Do you need any kind of permit for a fyke net?


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Ahhh! The Mudcat Motel (Mudcats check in - they don't check out) just $29.95 at Walmart (right next to the Bullhead BeGone Spray).


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Rangersedge, a few topics down in this category is a thread called "My Catfish Spawned."

I think Dudley L. gives a description of some traps he made from plastic trash cans with a good bit of success.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Rangersedge - I know you've been fighting with the bullheads for a while.

Don't confuse the hollow log/milk can/trash can spawning of catfishes (such as channel catfish) with the spawning behavior of the bullies. The bullies actually build a nest much like a crappie or a bass. They are not hollow-spawners.

I think your best bet is one of the traps that have already been mentioned. Usually, bullies net very well after ice-out and before the vegetation starts growing.

I can't tell you about permits, as that varies from state to state. You'll have to check with the IL Dept of Conservation to see if netting is legal on private waters in IL.

I wrote a short article on largemouth bass control of bullheads. I think Bob might be planning to run it in the next issue of Pond Boss.

Good luck,
Dave


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Sunil, with a PhD backing him up, I certainly wouldn't take issue with Dr. Willis. I suspect that the bullheads attempting to spawn in my trash cans were just a psychotic south LA knockoff of the genuine article and didn't know they weren't supposed to go into those cans. Typically, instead of doing the construction work, they decided to follow the path of least resistance. Should I ever discover another knockoff bullhead problem, I'll remove the masqueraders with trash cans and introduce a few with the proper pedigree, then I won't have to cope with such aberrant bullhead behavior.

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Hey Dudley, Dr. Dave, and all,

I think the bullheads go into those trash cans for refuge, and not for spawning. I thinks that's why you have had success with the Trash Can Trap.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Dudley -- you must have missed my earlier post where I freely admitted that I am wrong about 50% of the time! :-) You just have to get old enough to recognize when you are wrong.

I've also learned never to say never. Mother Nature has many, many twists. I will say this: if there are no hollow spawning structures in a pond, you can count on the bullies still spawning by building nests! :-)


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Thanks for all the info. I will order a net after checking to make sure it is legal in Illinois.

I did a yahoo search for fyke nets and some of the results are below. I had no idea there were so many different variations and options. Any recommendations for type, materials, mesh size, vendors, etc.?

http://www.sterlingnets.com/trap_nets.html

http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Content.aspx?src=home.htm

http://www.texastastes.com/p127.htm

http://www.nylonnet.com/

http://www.fipec.qc.ca/ahtml/averveux.html

http://www.uaex.edu/aquaculture/whitecoats/FishingOutdoorSupplies.htm

http://www.tlnetmaking.net.au/Products%201.html

[URL=http://the6322s2.handel.2day.com/doclibrary/snz/sept/fyke_nets.pdf#search='fyke%20net']http://the6322s2.handel.2day.com/doclibrary/snz/sept/fyke_nets.pdf#search='fyke%20net'[/ URL]


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Edge -- there are lots of ways to catch bullies, and I'm sure you can get lots of different advice. I looked through your links, and here are my thoughts.

I really like the single-lead trap nets. The Sterling website called them "Indiana trap net." In my opinion, there is no need to bother with the extra wings. If you set that trap net after ice-out and before the vegetation gets thick, you'll really catch the bullies.

It is a bother to set those trap nets; we usually do it from a flat-bottom boat. We stake one end on shore, often using a piece of re-bar to connect to shore. Then, you back out, feed out the lead, and drop the net so the frames will hold it square on the bottom. Because the trap nets are a little complicated, I wonder if you might find it easier to just use a 2-funnel hoop net. The "Texastastes" website had a photo of a simple trap, and you could set and pull it with chest waders. However, I didn't see any mention of twine diameter or strength at their site. Be sure that you get good quality twine, or the nets will not last long. It might be worth paying a little more to established companies such as Sterling or Nylon Net, and get some good gear.

I'm sure that bullies will go into smaller traps as well. They seem to like structure, and I'm sure that's what these nets and traps appear to be. However, I'll bet that the trap nets and hoops nets will catch more per effort.

Let's see if anyone else has other advice. There are many ways to accomplish your task. I just noted our common methods.


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What is it like to get fish out of a fyke net? Sometimes fish get tangled in a cast net. You don't want a prefered species to go through a lot of untangling and pulling and biting a nd scratching.

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Brian -- there are many different designs for fyke and trap nets. I'll answer what is true for most of them.

Most fyke, and modified fyke (those with frames at front, rather than just the round hoops), have either one or two funnels in the back (cod) end. Usually, we tie the back of the net with a heavy piece of twine, and usually just use a bow tie. A weight must be used to stretch those nets from shore (small bell anchor, sometimes coffee can of cement) and hold it in place. We usually tie a line and float to the weight.

When we come up to the net in our flat-bottom work, we go to the float, and then pull up the anchor. We are then at the back of the net. We usually collapse the entire fyke net over a tub. Then, you start at the front (e.g., the frames in a modified fyke net), and "shake" the fish down through the two funnels. Now, all fish are at the back end of the net. Untie the bow tie knot, and the fish fall into your tub.

These nets tend to catch lots of sunfish and crappies. So, if you put water in the tub, you usually end up being able to release nearly all fish alive. Of course, if you have hundreds of pounds of bullheads, the other fish can get roughed up. However, that only happens when bullie problems are severe.

I hope this is somewhat understandable. It's easier to show the videotape to the class than try to describe this in words! :-)


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I called Sterling Nets. They gave me a price of $618.88. I asked to talk to someone there to confirm what I should order. I explained the situation of trying to remove bullheads from a small lake. That person told me that the fyke nets were designed to be used by fisheries biologists for sampling by putting the wings across the water way and forcing fish through. They didn't hold many fish and fish wouldn't enter unless forced (even with bait). He indicated I should consider a seine. I helped seine some long ago. I don't recall it being particular effective on catfish, don't think one would work well on my lake, and am not sure I could get enough volunteers to go in the water each year before spawn.

I then called Nylon Net. After explaining the situation to a lady there, she indicated that I might want to consider a catfish trap. She indicated that with bait, it should work pretty well. The price of those was around $41.

I called the IL Dept of Natural Resources. They said that since the water body was entirely contained upon my property and was less than 30 acres, I was pretty much free to use anything I wanted short of explosives.

All the people seemed very nice and knowledgeable and helpful. The first one basically talked himself out of a $600 dollar sale so I have to believe he was advising me to the best of his knowledge; but it kind of goes against what I thought accurate.


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Ranger -- a lot of these different gears can work. I am assuming that you want one that will last a while. Also, we probably need to talk about how much work you want to put into it. It's indeed hard work pulling up nets full of bullheads.

I'd be glad to either talk by phone, visit by e-mail, or keep this up on the Forum. :-) My thought is that you can show me the gear, and I can tell you pros and cons. I'm sure that a "catfish trap" would work and would be easier to set and run than a fyke net (that's why I originally suggested a single lead on the net, like their "indiana" net). Even if the traps don't catch as many bullies per lift, if easier to set and use, you can eventually do the same job. However, I'd like to see the size, the construction, the mesh size, and the size of openings. I'm suspicious of $49 gears -- are they built well enough to stand up to rough handling. The $600 price for the fyke net is actually pretty good; we pay that much when we buy a half dozen at a time. However, you may not want to invest that much. I suspect that just a hoop net would be half that price, and easier to set and pull.

I DEFINITELY would not buy a big seine. They are expensive, it's hard to use them in more than 4 or 5 feet of water, and they work best on an even bottom with no obstructions. I'll bet that doesn't describe your pond.

Whatcha think?? At the least, tell me links and pictures of what you are considering so I can get an idea what they are. When or if needed, let's exchange phone numbers.

CECIL or BILL -- if you are monitoring this string, what are you thoughts for a private pondowner using some of these bigger gears?

P.S. Ranger -- go to the following link.
http://wfs.sdstate.edu/wfsdept/courses/WL230/WL230syl04.htm

Click on the blue text link for "Passive Fish Capture Techniques." That has some notes on these gears, and will help you see what I am calling a hoop net vs. a fyke net vs. a modified fyke net.


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Dave - The bigger gears are not used in the ponds around here because the ponds are seep sided and whenever the bottom is flat it is in 10 to 18 ft of water. Best gear in those situations I think is a gill net but they are not very selective and not catch and release friendly.

I have bullhead- green sunfish contamination that seems to keep getting worst in one of my ponds. This year it is getting drawed down and the low water pool is getting treated with rotenone.


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Thanks, Bill. Good point on the steep sides. You're right about the gill nets. They would certainly catch the bullies, but are not selective and would catch lots of other fishes. Also, they are NO FUN whatsoever to pick.

Ranger -- is there a shallower, upper end to your pond where the slope is not so steep?? Surely in 17 acres, we can find some shallower areas?? I'll bet a hoop net or catfish trap set up there would continually catch bullies. I'm sure that we could set one of our trap (modified fyke) nets up there, and catch them as well.


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Dave:

I read the document and it was helpful. I sent contact info via email.

I don't have any particular net or anything in mind and have no experience with them. I am wide open to suggestions/recommendations.

There are plenty of shallow, relatively flat areas in the lake. I would like a trap to last a long time. It'd be great if I were able to set it by myself; but I can get help to set it and check it if necessary.

Thanks to you and to everyone for all of the advice and assistance!

Jeff

Another question: Would it be beneficial to scatter some kind of stuff such as corn for chum to get them coming to that area? If so, what would you recommend?


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I removed 362 bullheads last summer from my 2/3 acre pond. It was a combined effort of hook and line fishing and individual traps. I purchased 2 traps for around $80 each from Aquatic Ecosystems and am very happy with them. It never seemed to matter much if I baited them or not. I can catch a lot more bullheads in a day by hook and line but the traps are a lot less trouble and don't hurt my yellow perch when they get in them. Just be sure to check them often because I let them go a week one time and had dead perch in them. I assumed they starved.

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Just an update... I got great advice from a bunch of people. A big fyke net with wings sounded like it would be most effective, but I wasn't sure I'd consistently have time and help to utilize a big fyke net. I talked with several vendors about purchasing some catfish traps. The traps weren't too expensive, but the shipping was about as much as the trap. So, I purchased some wire to make a trap. In hindsight, I wouldn't recommend that. Then, I was talking with someone in the area one day and they said they had several hoop nets I could try. I went to pick one up and noticed they also had five wooden catfish traps as recommended by several of the vendors I talked with and a five gallon bucket of cheese bait. So I set out the five wooden traps. They float. I put a brick in each and figured they would sink as they absorbed water, but they are still floating (eventually ending up grounded next to bank). So far, I've only had a bunch of bluegill and redears in them.

Maybe that is a good sign that I don't have many bullheads in there? Maybe that just means they need to sink and I need to add more weight.

One thing that confuses me is the size. The biggest bluegill/redears are about three inches and most seem to be around 1.5 inches. I stocked them last fall I think. Shouldn't they be bigger?


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R..sedge - Since you are from IL do not expect your fish to grow very much if at all in the time period from fall to April. By "stocking in Fall", I assume your fingerlings were stocked in late Sept - October or early Nov. In your latitude (plant growing zone) there are very few growing days from Fall to April where water temps are above 55-60F. The fish you are talking about are bascially warm water fish and growth is good to best at water temps above 65F. This is especially true for the redear sunfish which are native to warmer areas of the country so growth is best above 70F. You should see noticable improvement in these fish by fall this year unless they are too crowded and or they have too much competition in your pond.

Bullheads. Try baiting your fish-bullhead traps with dead fish or cat, dog or fish food. The odors attract the bulheads.


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Update:

I looked closer at the biggest bluegill/redears. Some were bluegill/redears, but the biggest look like green sunfish... Oh well. Won't matter long term.

Bill's right about dead fish being good bait. I ran out of the cheese bait and just left at least one bullhead in each of the traps. I checked them yesterday and some of the traps had quite a few bullheads in them. Some fairly big ones too. I may not have giant bluegill yet or perch; but I may be in the running if Bruce and Cecil want to race for the biggest bullheads! ;\)

Seriously, just leaving some fish in the traps to become bait seems to work really well...


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As much as I dislike bullheads, I released one today. It was the biggest bullhead I have ever seen (except for that world record picture). I think it might have gotten in Cecil's list if I had only had a scale, measure, and camera with me. My rationale is that hopefully the bass will get big enough one of these days to prevent any little ones from surviving into the future and I'm thinking about hitting all the catfish hard starting next year. It was an impressive bullhead.


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Just an update to this old thread... I caught a lot of bullheads in the catfish traps; but didn't keep up with it like I should have. I now catch bullheads on bass / panfish lures. Often, I catch more bullheads on the lures than all other fish combined. We've put out trotlines and caught quite a few. As time allows, we're going to do a bunch more of that and the traps again.

Q: When I was there last weekend, I saw a mass of black bullhead fry swimming along the bank. Shouldn't the other fish be chomping those down to the point I wouldn't see any of them by now?

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