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#209835 03/24/10 04:37 PM
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Just got an e-mail from Greg as we work out his delivery of some adult chubsuckers. He is apparently having success shocking up some fat healthy looking lake chubsuckers to bring north to Virginia for me.



That is one BIG chubsucker!

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Another photo Greg sent:



Many look to be ready to spawn. I hope they survive the holding period and are ready to pull off a spawn when I put them into my ponds.

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Wow, I'm planning on meeting up with them as well. I was concerned about the chubsuckers avoiding predation, but definitly not anymore!

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I'm planning to meet him at honey lake when he comes to north fl. and i will get mine then. Its gonna be interesting to see how well they fit the nitche i want in my pond.


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Those are some chubby suckers, how long does it usually take for them to get to that size?



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Nice looking brood fish.
















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They look like very good bass food to me. Bottom oriented soft rayed fish. I doubt very much they will get that big in the northern states due to shorter growing season.


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Congrats im jealous! I would assume that they are also not a very fast fish when it comes to escaping predators? anyone know?


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Not really familiar with the term ChubSuckers, so I need to learn more. They really look like some nice Suckers, and they really are good Smoked!

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They don't do very well in ponds that don't contain good amounts of vegetation as they end up mostly being bass food from lack of a place to hide. My hopes are I have just enough vegetation that a few brood fish survive, but that most of the little ones get turned into bass food. I would say the fish in those photos are 5 or 6 years old. But like anything, it really depends on the body of water they come from. If anything I think there are better odds they will be eaten into extinction than there is of them getting over populated. Chubsuckers are very new to the pond world, so the next few years will be lots of learning. Most will be going into my future SMB/RES/male BG and possible striper pond. A few will be stocked into my forage fish only pond. So we will see how they do...

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Sounds like another interesting forage option, my pond is probably too acidic but it might benefit alot of pond owners.
CJ did you put cover into your ponds like pine trees, and what type of structure do they use to spawn on?

PS. I looked up creek chubs and they can tolerate PH down to about 5, I wonder how close they are to LCS.

Last edited by adirondack pond; 03/25/10 11:38 AM.


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 Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
They don't do very well in ponds that don't contain good amounts of vegetation as they end up mostly being bass food from lack of a place to hide. My hopes are I have just enough vegetation that a few brood fish survive, but that most of the little ones get turned into bass food. I would say the fish in those photos are 5 or 6 years old. But like anything, it really depends on the body of water they come from. If anything I think there are better odds they will be eaten into extinction than there is of them getting over populated. Chubsuckers are very new to the pond world, so the next few years will be lots of learning. Most will be going into my future SMB/RES/male BG and possible striper pond. A few will be stocked into my forage fish only pond. So we will see how they do...


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AP

Creek Chubs won't reproduce in pond environments tho, will they? Don't they need stream habitat/running water? I most certainly may be mistaken...what do you think?


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Yeah TJ, I think creek chubs need running water, but since they can tolerate acidic water I was wondering if they were closely related to LCS, the chart I have doesn't show PH tolerance of LCS.



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AP, actually I think LCS would do great in your pond... They prefer soft acidic waters.

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Well CJ that might be another option to try if I go ahead with CC, I have a lot of GSH & PS's but another forage fish like LCS might help grow the CC's, and a self sustaining forage base would be needed in time of emergency when fish pellets might not be available.



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CJ, Thanks for posting.

Ok update we about 80 big LCS or so and started losing a few. Put in tanks last night and now down to 62 after checking them this am in our flow thru. If not stressed they should do well until we can take some to each of you who wanted them. Not a money maker for me for the effort but so far so good just hope for all our sakes they do well until mid May for you VA folks and for whenever I go south to FLA.

AP, LCS do best in soft acidic water, that is where we shock them.


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I'll cross my fingers Greg...

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AP have you considered diversifying your forage by adding Scuds, Shrimp or another minnow species in addition to the LCS?


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TJ I think my water is too acidic for shrimp, 5.5 - 6 PH.



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In general most shelled crustaceans, crayfish, shrimp, scuds do best in neutral to slightly alkaline waters. You see it all the time when doing invertebrate collecting in different trout streams. Those with limestone soils have piles of crawdad and scuds. Those without or with acid mine drainage issues are often barren of them and boy can you see the difference in trout growth between the different streams!

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I agree with that CJ, the stream I siphon water for the pond from had a PH around 6, the biggest BRKT I've ever gotten out of it was less than 10", but when I put them in the pond they really grow and fatten up with all the food and forage in the pond.



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Yeah, not having to constantly fight a current allows them to pork out too...

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Greg, did you happen to measure length on any of those brooder chubsuckers?


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Give me a buzz when your ready to meet down here in fl. Thanks Greg!


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Todd the one collected range in size from 10" up to 16". We shocked but realeased many that were 4 inches in size. If we get time Matt can age one that dies just as an fyi. I also got two giant redhorse (I think that is what they are) about 18".

they made it thru the weekend, down to 60 but I think we are in the clear. Man I hope so.


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Greg, those are some absolutely huge creek chubsuckers! I would have to believe the bass are filling their bellies with the 4" fish. You gotta take photos of these weird catches you get like the possible species of redhorse. I know myself and Bill Cody would enjoy seeing them among others. Work out the numbers and what ever fish you don't have a buyer for out of the 60, I'll buy from you...

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Has anyone caught them when possessing a very red-purple colouration? I have caught some very large chub in a river in Quebec, (Black River) that at certain times are very brightly coloured adn much larger then I would expect, up to 14". I just never have a camera. (Well I did once but it is now at the bottom of said river) Don't care for the bizzare gurgling noise they make when you catch/handle them I must admit.


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You probably caught a species of actual chub, not sucker... There are a few species that go over a foot and can get red/purple coloration on the males when they are spawning.

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Well, all our efforts, the purchase of a new $200 oxygen bottle since we cashed one suddenly and we are lsoign fish. Got back in town today and lost 34. We will go thru do a water exchange but will not have enough to meet demands. Sorry we tried. Life a fish man is not as easy as seem think.


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did an water exchange- we are down to just 11, bummer.


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Apparently those fish are living up to their published water quality requirements or sensitivity. They reportedly tolerate low DO well - 0.3-0.5ppm. It must be LCS are not very tolerant of some type of reduced water quality which explains why they have dissappeared from many localites especially streams. Canary in a coal mine type of thing. I think holding LCS esp large ones in a crowded tank does cause some undue stress that many other fish can tolerate. Evidently LCS are not as toleant of certain stressors as other "regular" pond/lake fish. To date these stressors may be unknown. This may be a factor in using LCS in ponds that occassionally have poor OR unfavorable water conditions, such as high turbidities or other unknown chemical stressors. At this point, we also cannot completely dismiss the affects of the electro-shocking and handling had on these adult fish. Are LCS temperamental?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/02/10 04:04 PM. Reason: edits & clean up

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Sorry to hear this Greg... I really appreciate the effort. Perhaps next time collect the intermediate sized fish, those in the 4"-8" range. They should be adults and ready to spawn, but maybe a little easier to handle?


Cody says: smaller individuals may help with holding and survial. Testing that theory will probably be the only way to tell. I am sure Greg, based on his long time live fish experiences, did the best he could with holding adult LCS. Life is a learning curve.

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Cody we had 65 (I think that is what we got back here) spread over 4 tanks- 275 gallons each, with both blower going and flow thru to exchange water about once a day. We hold fish quite reguraly at much higher densities with no real issues. Bob wants me to write up our setup b/c anyone can do it behind their dam of their pond.

I agree Matt reminded me when we started handling them about their sensitive nature. He lost some haulig a few years ago when Bass Pro wanted some from us for aquariums.

Also Cj interesting but the little ones were the first to go. The redhorse and chain pickerel of course that no one really wants are doing just fine.


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Murphy's Law evidently also applies to holding fish. The desired ones parish first despite all good efforts. As I told CJ what ever survives has a tolerant and desirable gene pool.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/02/10 08:12 PM.

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Yes, working with LCS is definitely a learning curve. Lots to learn with these fish. I may have to just meet you at a shocking location some day Greg, one you know has a good LCS population. Then I can grab the LCS as you shock them up and head north with them to go around the holding tank issue. Hopefully the fish you have left will survive long enough so that rcn11thacr can get them at least... If just 4-6 adults survive, they should be enough to get a population going if the conditions are right...

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CJ, Thats kind of you for sure, it would be really great if a few made it. I feel bad for Greg since it seems that its a loose loose for him all the way around. He certainly has made great efforts to help all of the interested parties.


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thanks for understnading

and then there were 9


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I have been dealing in fish now for (man Im old) 18 years. i have never seen fish act this way. Down to 3 this is from 80 we loaded on the truck. The vultures around here love me.

Just shocked a great local lake but man is it hot already 89 but back to 56 for high on friday.


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Wow Greg, I dont think your trip to Fl. is gonna come soon enough. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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been out of town and no more lcs alive upon return. I guess we can close this thread and thank Todd Overton for producing them because that might be the only way for folks to get em.


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That is bad news for us all. \:\( Wish the news was different. That being said Greg thank you for your assistance, willingness to offer your services, knowledge, and time to help us all. Im sure i speak for all of us who were interested, we greatly appreciate you for what you have done.


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Sorry to hear the news Greg...

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I am pretty sure the photo of the LCS on Todd's website came from the mid-sized lake in front of my house. I do think they have a high level of utiltiy for growing big bass. They shocked up 5 to 10 in my lake, all of which were breeder-size, but certainly smaller than what is depicted in Greg's photo. I am super interested in seeing what Todd's assessment of these fish is, how often they reproduce, how big they can get, what kind of environment to they like or feel most comfortable in.

These fish do get big, and would be a high-choice food item for bigger basss.

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I just wanted to add a general theory of the make-up and overall dispostiion of the LCS. These creatures were shocked up in a lake that had an abundant amount of vegation. This may confirm their need for aquatic plant life to reproduce and flourish. I think they were introduced into a larger lake of mine, without any vegetation, and there were no surviviors present after a shock survey. Interesting.

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Here is the forum thread where we thoroughly went over the characteristics and the possible use of LCS in a pond or lake...

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I realize that this is something of a thread revive and hijack, but has anyone considered raising and selling LCS for the Musky bait market?

In the Fall in the upper midwest, fishing for Musky with live suckers in in 10"-14" range is pretty common. Bait shops sell suckers for $6-$8 each. From what I gather, most of these are white suckers netted or trapped from the wild. With the spread of VHS and other diseases, it's possible that one of the big Musky states like Minnesota or Wisconsin will clamp down on shipments of wild fish. When that happens, somebody able to produce Musky sized sucker type fish from a hatchery environment could make a tidy penny.

Most of the information currently out there on LCS stocking focuses on use as LMB forage, rather than on quickly producing and catching LCS in the 10"+ size range.

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I think the biggest issue LCS would face is they take 4+ years to reach the 10" range... It would be easier to raise white suckers which have a much faster growth rate to use in the bait for musky market. White suckers are already raised commercially.

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