Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations gsf ? picture included

rc, while others cringe, i like yer approach. the gsf will take readily to pellets if you want to try some hand feeding. sunil actually convinced me to try and i'm glad i did. i go through about 100 pounds per season just feeding a few evenings a week. i really enjoy that time with my pond.

my original gsf stockers came out of a lmb heavy pond, which was also a real hoot to fish.

Hey Dave, Maybe I might try it sometime but I really like the fact that I only have to worry about one type of food. Not to mention the fact I can scoop up a few minnows out of my pond anytime and put them on a hook and I am fishing. My bass and GSF are VERY minnow trained. This fall one day I caught 22 bass on a little 3 inch black and silver rapala. They tore it up! What's funny is if I let the rapala just sit there after hitting the surface about 30 seconds later I would almost everytime have a GSF hit it. It's great fun just knowing your fixing to get a strike it's just a matter of when.

The devil's spawn! GSF lovers unite in this thread. I cannot say I hate them, but have seen many impoundments that were overrun by them. I think my big problem with them is thier tendency to overpopulate and displace fish I prefer. Then after they complete phase one they even overpopulate themselves and you catch 3" tropies. Not exactly rodbenders. Good for kids fishing with cane poles. Hard to clean and eat a 3" fish.

My dream or ideal pond does not have them. My favorite sunfish is the shellcracker. I cannot get enough of them. But some people in El Dorado love greenies. That's what makes the world a great place. To each his own.

I don't get how they overpopulate when all I have read on this forum is how they only spawrn 1 time a year??? Or did I read that wrong? It's like any other fish just like Bob says keep the bigger ones and cull the smaller ones. Slot limits baby, slot limits! Really though how many time do GSF spawn in a year? JHAP do you know? Is it one? If so I don't get how they can overpopulate anything.

They have a different habitat and are prolific producers in that habitat. The females will deposit eggs in several males nests, up to 10,000. And they love the shallows, where not much else does. Then with that big mouth they outcompete other species fry, by aggressive feeding, sheer numbers and domination of the edge or shallows. Plus they breed right away, another competitive advantage. I guess the best way to put it is htey have a niche and outcompete everything else in it.

Frog, I've not found that to be true in my area of North Texas. The creeks seem to be full of GSF without a lot of bluegills and no RES.

In man made ponds they are usually introduced by man, mostly by hatchery mistakes. I had a bunch of them in one pond but over time, the bluegills just outspawned them and predation pretty well took care of the rest. At first, I bought into the bad GSF mantra and tossed them on the bank. Then I started noticing bent hooks and good fight and started liking them. Being more cylindrical than a BG, the bass seem to prefer them (I guess).

They seldom last more than 5 years in ponds around here.

A couple of years ago, the creek on my place got to my forage pond and I wound up with some GSF. When I seine, I don't sort them out. I've never found them to be a problem.

But, we are in vastly different regions.

Interesting. Our creeks have a mix of GSF and LES, with the GSF outnumbered and outsized by the LES to a significant degree. In the rivers, which have a lot more predators, especially spots and LMB, GSF are very seldomly encountered. My experience mirrors DD's; with a healthy population of predators they don't tend to be problematic in any practical sense.

I generally think of GSF as being kind of like the human papilloma virus, or herpes-not likely to cause any real harm, but just knowing that you've got'em can be quite traumatic.

You know I have only read about the problems with them in the Northeast. If I have an issue with them I drawdown and take thier shallow cover away and they get inhaled. But I have witnessed first hand how they took over a man made lake in a residential neighborhood. They hid in these big ol pond rocks along the shoreline. Eddie Murphy had a house there, an exclusive community. But I have an access key. At first it was an amazing CC, LMB, BG and Crappie lake. Now you catch bullheads and greenies, our local junk fish. It took less than 10 years to go from great to a waste of time. It also became a massive skeeter pit. Nothing is the same everywhere. I will say GSF have a higher probability of adversely affecting a pond than any other bg/sf species.

Dave D,

What's up bud? You hit it on the head when you said fight! That's one reason why I like them they are aggressive and hit and fight just about like small LMB. It's like having LMB in your pond but they look different and are not as picky as LMB. A little smaller then most bass but still a blast! I can't wait to throw a bobber around my new brush piles I made and see what happens this spring. I am starting to get cabin fever I can't wait to go fishing again in March!!!

Not that I would ever admit to doing such a thing so I have a friend, and he fished GSF and bg side by side as bait. The gsf lasted a bit longer even after being hit, they are tough little cusses. The bg died much sooner and easier. I'd say the bass really took either one readily. Hey some people love them, some love goldfish. In the canals and sloughs around me the local bg never let them get established. They have been a minority for decades. And I have seen plain ol bg overpopulate and stunt in some places. The only ones I have never seen it happen with is RES. My only problem with GSF is I rarely catch any of any size. I catch lots of very large bg and res, but not many gsf. They are not really the devil's spawn I guess.

Yolk,

Maybe that's why I don't seem to have a problem with them. I only have a 1 acre pond and I have plenty of bass in there to take care of the smaller ones! Although my bass don't seem to be very big? I think it's becuase I have too many like Davd D said and I have to cull some more. I bought the number tagging system from Greg G. and I am going put it to use with my LMB big time. I am going to tag about 25 to 30 of them and all the rest will be coming out so I can get some nice 2 to 3 pounders hopefully.

Hey Frog,

I must have the right situation cause I have quite a few larger ones? I don't know? I can see your point catching 3 inch GSF wouldn't be any fun course catching 3 inch anyting wouldn't be any fun, but the 8 and 9 inchers are quite fun I must say!

The only time I have ever seen GSF over populate was when they were in ponds by themselves. As soon as they get introduced to BG and LMB as neighbors, they become a very small percentage of the pond community and within 5 years are hard to even find. They tend to hug any rocky areas the pond has and that's about it.

Died, RC51 and I have had the opportunity to catch a decent sized GSF. I've said it before and I'll say it again (and again, and again) GSF hit like a freight train and fight like they are possessed. IMHO, pound per pound, a GSF is one of the best fighting of the sunfish.

Can they become overpopulated and stunt in a pond? Sure. So can BG and LMB - there is thread after thread on this forum in which folks are asking about a LMB and BG overpopulation and stunting problems.

IMHO their are actual differences and perceived differences between BG and GSF.

First that GSF can and probably do compete with LMB because of the size of their mouth and aggression level than do BG.

Secondly BG are much more prolific and therefore are considered a better forage base for predators. IMHO however this can be a double edged sword.

For the most part very few people are actively managing a pond for GSF and therefore their only exposure to GSF is the 2 to 3 inch variety.

Catch a 10 inch GSF and you would have an entirely different feeling about them.

So my conclusion is this, everyone should stop whining and start stocking GSF.

Hey JHAP,

There is no doubt they compete with the LMB, but what is cool about it is if you can get them to the size were talking about they are not near as picky as a LMB when it comes to taking a lure. I have actually caught a couple of my bigger ones on a 5 inch Zoom Super Fluke with a 1 ought bass hook! It's crazy what they will try to eat! They have much bigger eyes then they do stomachs that's for sure!

How many states out there actually DO NOT reccommend stocking GSF? Some? Most? All? Does anyone say stock them? Anyone? No matter how pretty of a picture you try to paint about how great catching a rare large specimen is, they are duds. I can name 10 pond species I would rather have in front of them. And many don't want them at all. They make good bait.

OK, your dispprobation is clear, but it is now time for the acid test, Pond Frog:

If you had a pond full of GSF, would stock northern pike to control them?

pondfrog, you may misunderstand something in this equation. its a miracle of sorts, a natural phenomena born out of no direct investment nor active management, just a depression filled with water left to its own device.

sounds like rc, and certainly jhap and I discovered something really wonderful quite by chance. we experienced the joy of trophy gsf in unique unmanaged pond situations where bass and gsf had been stocked, left unmanaged, and after many years, the resulting ponds were an absolute hoot to fish, loaded with stunted 10 to 12 inch bass w/ an occassional pig (my personal best lmb is 9 pounds out of the pond to which i refer) and significant numbers of trophy sized gsf. in my case i took some of those monster gsf for my pond and continued to grow them even bigger to near record porportions. as a side note, the last couple years my pond has suffered from severe water loss, and i doubt today i still have these fish, but their offspring, which i do have, reached 8-inches in less than 3 years.

if yer a pond owner who cant (or doesnt care to) invest lots of money or time, but wants fun farm pond style fishing, a lmb heavy/gsf pond is certainly one way to go.....

rc, a couple summers ago, i was targeting some lmb pigs in cattails, hucking a 6-inch fat whacky rigged senko (on a fairly big octopus hook)......a nine inch gsf crushed it as it hit the water, he inhaled the entire senko, it was amazing.

Dave,

I love it! Now that's what I am talking about! GSF with atittude! Frog were not trying to paint anything the color is already on the wall were just using it instead of trying to change it and it's a blast! Now if i had a 3 or 4 acre pond or bigger would I want some other types of fish?? Sure but I would not get rid of my bigger GSF for it. It's not really about what other people recommend all the time. I believe in the same idea of "It All Depends" when it comes to stocking fish as well as managing your ponds ecosystem. It's all good. The one thing that is great about all of this is it's my pond I don't have to convice anyone about what I like in it. It's just my preference. Your right Dave. My pond has all 10 to 12 maybe 13.5 inch bass in it and some BIG GSF. But I am going to work on that to get my bass a little bigger and have a very fun pond to fish with a BUNCH of attitude!!

Today is the 5TH, so every month I take it, that way I do not have to answer any questions.

Well, since you posted today. I searched 403 cartoons, got a bit more acquainted with photo-chop, it was a really creative and productive day, then I went outside.

Changing atmospheric conditions created a tear running down my cheek. I wiped it, and contemplated, "Is this really a sign".

Then I re-read the posts, and my heart grew 10 times in a moment for the three GSF faithful, and decided to destroy the damaging arguments.

I feel sooooo clean now.

Disclaimer:
This dose not mean I want GSF in my pond.

Frog, I've read and re-read your post about the pond/lake that wound up as a GSF and bullhead water hole and have trouble believing that GSF caused the problem. Sorta like thinking out loud, I'm thinking with both of my typing fingers here. My disclaimer here is that I wasn't there and can be dead wrong.

I really suspect a water quality problem MAY have been the initial cause. I would postulate(six bit word) that a DO crash hit and bullheads and GSF were the biggest % of the survivors. As I'm sure you know, a DO crash can be a 15 minute event that can have far reaching effects with the biggest part of the casualties being the largest fish. If that happened, I can see that bass and catfish would have a real problem reestablishing once bullheads become the biggest % of the biomass. Channel cats, unlike bullheads, have a real problem with recruitment in the face of any type of predation so I'm not surprised at their eventual demise.

I suspect that there are some bass and bluegill left but, unless steps are taken, nest robbing and predation by both dominant species will keep it from ever being a viable bass/bluegill habitat.

On a smaller scale, I've seen bullheads completely take over a BOW but never GSF. Bullheads are almost impossible to eradicate without chemicals. They are really good at what they do. GSF seem to somewhat survive once bullhead infestations occur.

Another problem that I have seen is a cheapass HOA that just doesn't pay attention.

Again, I wasn't there so may be 110% wrong. I often am.

My HBG look just like this that I stocked back in December 2009. I have not caught any this big yet, but the fish look like this.

Was I sold GSF, or could yours be a hybrid?

Or are there just minor differences that I am not able to see since I am not an expert in this?

Please let me know.

Thanks